Author Topic: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies  (Read 30952 times)

BridgeRunner

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2010, 10:03:54 AM »
Enlighten me, please (IANAL): Is not tort law dealing with civil, not criminal or Constitutional law?

Yes.  However, civil law is a good indicator of culture as recognized by law and various bodies of law regularly inform each other.  The law of IIED is an illustration of how the axiom that my right to swing my arm ends at your nose applies to non-physical harm as legitimately as to physical harm.   

Of course, the proponents of limitingconstitutional protections to enumerated rights may point out that there isn't a constitutional right to not be punched in the face.  However, I have a hard time imagining a court protecting my right of freedom of non-verbal speech as exercised by punching, say neo-Nazis, in the face.

But Micro's insistence that the freedom of speech is not abridged by the needs of other people is not correct.  Political speech is almost always protected.  Advertising is afforded substantially lower protections. Criminal speech--generally, if one avoids the sophistry of discussing how anti-sedition laws can outlaw constitutionally protected speech--is not protected. 

So far as tort law is concerned, I'm not aware of any cases where suits for libel/slander were defended on constitutional grounds.  I can't imagine that there has never been a case where a government actor sought to suppress libel or slander, so maybe someone else can address the constititutional protections afforded to libelous/slanderous speech.  I'm not aware of any.   

Seenterman

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2010, 10:06:15 AM »
Isn't the right to protest mainly for the redress of grievances? What grievance does the Phelps family have with a dead person who they don't know? I hate it when people try to limit rights but I see no legitimate reason to protest a funeral.  

HeroHog

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2010, 01:06:28 PM »
Why doesn't some group take a bunch of sheets, sew them together end-to-end, attach them to poles and just surround these pieces of filth so that they at least can't be seen? Also, there is noise canceling applications out there, couldn't that be run on a computer attached to a PA and instead of increasing the noise level to drown them out, simply cancel them out? That might actually work...
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Ned Hamford

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2010, 01:37:31 PM »
'Why not get sheets and noise cancelers ect'

Folks do.  Its one of the reason they have to do 5+ protests a day, making sure they aggravate someone.  In their own words 'spreading god's hate.'
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2010, 01:57:58 PM »
Anyone else going through their list/book of "dirty tricks" and thinking how they might be best applied in a clandestine manner?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2010, 03:10:45 PM »
Anyone else going through their list/book of "dirty tricks" and thinking how they might be best applied in a clandestine manner?

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2010, 03:16:15 PM »
Anyone else going through their list/book of "dirty tricks" and thinking how they might be best applied in a clandestine manner?
We could hook up the sprinkler system to a large supply of liquid drano. And if they stay anyway, it will get rid of the bodies quicker.  >:D

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2010, 03:44:15 PM »
there is always police protection for these fools and no way i want to be in a spot where some cop gets hurt guarding the garbage
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Fitz

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2010, 03:52:44 PM »
I will be there on the 11th, making an absolute nuisance of myself.

And if they get upset and have me arrested, even better.


"Soldier who served in Iraq, arrested for disorderly conduct at a WBC protest"

would be awesome.
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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2010, 03:53:54 PM »
I will be there on the 11th, making an absolute nuisance of myself.
Would you please dress like Zed from Zardoz?
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Fitz

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2010, 03:54:45 PM »
No, but I might wear a towel and a sombrero
Fitz

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sanglant

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2010, 04:13:28 PM »
a burqa might be funny, or just a hijab. [popcorn]

news at eleven Muslim biker attacked by religious idiots. :laugh:

HankB

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2010, 04:49:08 PM »
If counter-picketing these Westboro . . . scum . . . I'm torn between two messages: either one saying something along the lines of "Imam Phelps Supports Jihad" or perhaps something like "Warlock Phelps is Satan's Tool."

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Sergeant Bob

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2010, 08:22:36 PM »
Rights enumerated are not more worthy than other rights.

Indeed.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2010, 08:40:25 PM »
I'm really liking the idea of taking large sheets and poles and holding them up to block the WBC view of the funeral, as well as to block the funeral patrons from having to see the WBC freakshow.
JD

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Scout26

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2010, 09:23:03 PM »
I'm really liking the idea of taking large sheets and poles and holding them up to block the WBC view of the funeral, as well as to block the funeral patrons from having to see the WBC freakshow.

Extrasuperdoubleplusgood 

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kgbsquirrel

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2010, 09:26:43 PM »
I will be there on the 11th, making an absolute nuisance of myself.

And if they get upset and have me arrested, even better.


"Soldier who served in Iraq, arrested for disorderly conduct at a WBC protest"

would be awesome.

And now the decision, to wear Full Dress Blues/Class A's while doing so. The image of a vet wearing full medals getting carted off by the 5-0 could, um, get certainly peoples full attention (unfortunately that would probably include .mil getting pissy for "poorly representing the .mil").

I'm really liking the idea of taking large sheets and poles and holding them up to block the WBC view of the funeral, as well as to block the funeral patrons from having to see the WBC freakshow.

I like this idea a lot. Next time there is a big to-do in my neighborhood of the country I wouldn't be adverse to taking my M35A2 down there to assist as a rolling view block. Another thought though, what about white noise generators and such aimed at the WBC crowd in order to drown out their taunts, much as the riders do with their engine noise?

vaskidmark

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2010, 09:50:30 PM »
Folks, the story is really the attention they get from the press.

Instead of blocking the WBC folks inside a circle of obscuring cloth, block the access of the press - especially cameras.  No pictures and the story has little appeal to the editor.

And remember that one of the stated goals of the Phelps legal office is to be able to press both criminal charges and civil tort suits against those who oppose their message.  It happens to be their primary known means of support.  Do not get within spittle-flecking distance of them.

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kgbsquirrel

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2010, 10:12:40 PM »
Instead of blocking the WBC folks inside a circle of obscuring cloth, block the access of the press - especially cameras.  No pictures and the story has little appeal to the editor.

And that does what for the grieving widow/mother/family at whose funeral they're heckling?

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2010, 10:55:24 PM »
A tactic I saw used by some VCDL members was to surround the protesters with your signs and bodies so that they were blocked from view of the media and public by a wall of opposition. Quiet, calm, law abiding, well spoken opposition.
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Thor

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2010, 11:09:40 PM »
Too bad that there isn't some civilian version of the LRAD....... (that's affordable)

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Scout26

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2010, 12:31:30 AM »
And that does what for the grieving widow/mother/family at whose funeral they're heckling?

The greiving family doesn't see the moonbats/asshats on the other side of the sheet during the funeral.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2010, 12:33:20 AM »
The greiving family doesn't see the moonbats/asshats on the other side of the sheet during the funeral.

Failure to read Skid's quote to which I was responding. Scroll back, reread, try again.

Perd Hapley

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2010, 12:44:37 AM »
Quote
I'm really liking the idea of taking large sheets and poles and holding them up to block the WBC view of the funeral, as well as to block the funeral patrons from having to see the WBC freakshow.

If our interpretation of the first amendment means that we can no longer have a respectful military funeral, without resorting to this kind of thing, perhaps we need to check our interpretation.
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Hutch

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Re: It hurts, but the First Amendment Applies
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2010, 09:54:28 AM »
Some sort of counter-battery fire is called for, but I can't imagine (yet) what would: 1) keep the good guys out of legal jeopardy;  2)  Dissuade / humiliate the jackasses;  3)  Comfort the grieving;

I'm glad I've never witnessed this WBC action, because I am a very docile, thoughtful, non-confrontational person... Who would be very tempted to take a Louisville Slugger to one of 'em.

What sort of area-denial technique could be used?  CS would be hard to come by, and might discomfit the grief-stricken.  A trained zombie skunk... that can read...  yeah, something like that.
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