Outstanding rant about the state of America

[Balog]

One of the most important take-aways I got from unintended consequences.  I had never really thought about when the "fight no matter what" point was.

That and "don't talk to the cops." :)

[freakazoid]

If the American people wanted a responsible government that respected our rights they could actually vote it in!

The majority of the American people don't care about it though!

How could anyone think assasinating 100-150 people would do ANYTHING in a country that continues to actually vote for such loathsome people?

We still hold elections in this country.  Why don't small gov and pro civil liberties people run the country?  Because they are not popular!

How many people cared to see America seperated from King George? I'd think less than the amount who would like to see us go back to a Republic that followed the Constitution.
You've got people who are with the way things are, or are working on making it worse. You've got people who don't really care either way. People who care but feel like what they vote for doesn't matter or don't feel like there is even an option to vote for. Then you have the people who are working on on trying to restore our rights. Unfortunately with the way things are that means that the people working to make things worse are able to make things worse. It's not because they are not popular ideas. Also why they often have to secretly add unconstitutional laws in, or missrepresent votes for gun laws, ect.
So, do I think that forcefully removing 100 or whatever people would make a difference. Yes, kind of hard to push unconstitutional laws through when there are not people to push them through. But what about the people that would replace them some said? I'm pretty sure that the 100 or whatever amount that was just taken out would be pretty fresh on their minds and might affect their willingness to push unconstitutional laws.

[RoadKingLarry]

I think the general idea is that the new bums will take a look at what policies got the other ones killed, and then try to be more nicer to all those trigger-happy constituents.

 

[tokugawa]

Big overbearing government is one thing. Corruption and deliberate lawbreaking is  another.

 I would settle for seeing about 100 top level crooks tried in a court and sentenced to prison for their offenses, ranging from treason to financial fraud. A lot of them are government, but a lot are not, although nearly every one of them are "connected" so as to escape prosecution. This would send a positive signal that yes, there are laws, and yes, the body of the public expects them to be applied equally.

 The problem in this country can be enveloped in one idea- the people who run the joint, and the ones who have elected them, are immune from consequences of their actions. It is always a third party who pays- like the saying goes, if you look around the table and can't figure out who the sucker is, you are the sucker. middle class worker bee.

[Joe Demko]

Can anybody list any real life examples of something like this plan that actually worked out well?  My knowledge of history isn't comprehensive, but the examples I can think of all ended very badly.
I'm going to have to agree that this is a fantasy of lashing out, nothing more. Frankly, anybody who genuinely believes himself so much wiser than the rest of us that he is qualified to steer our national fate through murder is a dangerous nut.

[roo_ster]

Can anybody list any real life examples of something like this plan that actually worked out well?  My knowledge of history isn't comprehensive, but the examples I can think of all ended very badly.
I'm going to have to agree that this is a fantasy of lashing out, nothing more. Frankly, anybody who genuinely believes himself so much wiser than the rest of us that he is qualified to steer our national fate through murder is a dangerous nut.

Been a while since I read on it, but did not Kemal Ataturk do something like this?

Of course, the reality is that killing of 100 folks and replacing them "with the right people" is not what might alter actions of the next 100.  It is the demonstration of the power to kill those 100 that alters behavior of the follow-on policritters.  Recall the SECOND dude Mal talks to after tossing the first through the engine... 

Power, power, and more power.  Power and the ability to direct force where it matters, matters.  We have abandoned any pretense that our leaders are accountable to God and will account for themselves before Him...and that those leaders might impose some self-discipline because of that.  Lacking that, we must have power to achieve our ends, even if those ends are "leave me and mine alone."

[Joe Demko]

I very strongly doubt that it is possible to use this path and arrive at a free society.  Generally, the result seems to be blood-soaked chaos as different groups all decide that they, too, can murder their way to power and righteousness. Multi-faction civil wars are the worst kind, IMPO. Eventually, the populace gets so sick of blood-soaked chaos that an authoritarian government even starts looking good by comparison.  One heavy-handed thug running everything in relative peace is superior to numerous groups of thugs with competing goals turning daily life into a nightmare.

[AJ Dual]

I don't disagree that it's a likely outcome.

However, you reach a point that making them pay is enough.   

[Pb]

In the next election, the people could vote the Tea Party or Liberatarian Party or whoever you think would fix the government in power... but they won't.

Do you really think the electorate wants massive spending cuts, tax increases, or some combination of the two that would be necessary to stop the debt monster?

We are still can vote, and the American people have chosen to continously vote for irresponsible, power mad incompetents who treat them and their liberties with contempt... but who promise them FREE STUFF.

Any murder of a bunch of politicians would see a ramp-up of the police state (more gun bans, a la the GCA 1968), and they would be replaced by scum just like them voted for by the FSA.

[Joe Demko]

I don't disagree that it's a likely outcome.

However, you reach a point that making them pay is enough.   

What have they, whoever your "they" on this list are, done that you believe it would be the right thing to kill 100 people?  They will be "paying" with their lives, so I expect they must have done some atrocious things.

[fifth_column]

In the next election, the people could vote the Tea Party or Liberatarian Party or whoever you think would fix the government in power... but they won't.

Do you really think the electorate wants massive spending cuts, tax increases, or some combination of the two that would be necessary to stop the debt monster?

We are still can vote, and the American people have chosen to continously vote for irresponsible, power mad incompetents who treat them and their liberties with contempt... but who promise them FREE STUFF.

Any murder of a bunch of politicians would see a ramp-up of the police state (more gun bans, a la the GCA 1968), and they would be replaced by scum just like them voted for by the FSA.

So true.  Any excuse to "protect" the country from "extremists" will be fully exploited.  This is not an Obama thing, it's not even an R or D thing, it's a power thing.  Those in power would be happy to enslave us all in order to stay in power.

[TommyGunn]

In the next election, the people could vote the Tea Party or Liberatarian Party or whoever you think would fix the government in power... but they won't.

Do you really think the electorate wants massive spending cuts, tax increases, or some combination of the two that would be necessary to stop the debt monster?
We are still can vote, and the American people have chosen to continously vote for irresponsible, power mad incompetents who treat them and their liberties with contempt... but who promise them FREE STUFF.

Any murder of a bunch of politicians would see a ramp-up of the police state (more gun bans, a la the GCA 1968), and they would be replaced by scum just like them voted for by the FSA.

Maybe we won't need to foment and lead a "revolution."   With a ≥17.5++ and increasing national debt this country's economy will collapse ... perhaps things will just "naturally" resolve themselves ....


 

[Balog]

Cause if there's one thing that history teaches us it's that a cultural/economic/governmental system collapses leads to freedom and prosperity. 

I think such a thing is more or less inevitable, but I'm not looking forward to it or hoping to hasten it. If there was a genuine popular secession movement I'd consider supporting it, depending on what they wanted to set up in place of what we have now.

[TommyGunn]

Cause if there's one thing that history teaches us it's that a cultural/economic/governmental system collapses leads to freedom and prosperity.  

I think such a thing is more or less inevitable, but I'm not looking forward to it or hoping to hasten it. If there was a genuine popular secession movement I'd consider supporting it, depending on what they wanted to set up in place of what we have now.

I dunno....when the Soviet Union collapsed they were making decent headway for awhile.  It depends upon how things are put back together.
I don't think we somehow "knew" in 1776 that our own revolution here would necessarily make things better.  First of all it was a big longshot that we'd succeed in separating ourselves from great Britain.  A few events going sideways....George Washington would have wound up dead or a POW in a British prison en route to the hangman's noose.  
And don't forget the first time we set up our government we got the Articles of Confederation and THAT didn't work out all that well.

The only gaurantees in life come in packages from Wal Mart.
Life is a cr@pshoot.   And revolution is the biggest of all......

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The Soviet Union?!?!  Not looked at them closely? Recently?


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[makattak]

The Soviet Union?!?!  Not looked at them closely? Recently?

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Or immediately following the collapse?

[Scout26]

As The Who famously pointed out:  "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss..."

[lee n. field]

Problems do not necessarily have solutions.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Or immediately following the collapse?

Yea there is that too


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[AJ Dual]

Problems do not necessarily have solutions.

That's pretty much where I'm at.

I'm not sure humans are able to co-exist long-term in a polity that has civil/constitutional rights, and republican limited democracy that's much larger than say 1-2 million people and isn't reasonably ethnically/culturally homogeneous. 

And I do agree that we're trapped between the slow decline, tyranny of the majority and the statist/left that supports it, and the various revolution scenarios that stand about a 1000:1 chance of gaming out well for "our side" or restoration of the Constutition & Federalism, instead of something that's actually worse than the slide.

However, as I mentioned above, at some point, even if things won't be "better", getting payback on the people who brought us to where we are
becomes more important.

[Balog]

However, as I mentioned above, at some point, even if things won't be "better", getting payback on the people who brought us to where we are
becomes more important.

The people who brought us here are tens if not hundreds of millions of voters who installed the traitors to the Constitution in office.

[AJ Dual]

The people who brought us here are tens if not hundreds of millions of voters who installed the traitors to the Constitution in office.

The collapse, if it happens, will pay them back plenty.

[Fly320s]

The people who brought us here are tens if not hundreds of millions of voters who installed the traitors to the Constitution in office.

I'm gonna need more ammo. 

[KD5NRH]

I'm gonna need more ammo.

Nah, you've just got to get pilots you hate flying around with planeloads of them, then sneak onboard, take out the pilot and copilot in some way that will appear to be normal crash trauma, set the autopilot for somewhere deep underground, and do a DB Cooper.

For that matter, if you set it for somewhere deep underwater and turn the transponder off, you might not even have to worry about leaving evidence.

[Scout26]

The collapse, if it happens, will pay them back plenty.

And it will be pretty smelly for about a year or so.  There will be lots of fat scavengers.  Both Human and Animal.