Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: roo_ster on May 05, 2009, 04:50:05 PM
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A pretty hard-hitting video that shows some of parents & kids who currently get school vouchers* in DC, but will not next year due to BHO's actions.
Change we can believe in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7FS5B-CynM&feature=player_embedded
* Voucher = $7500 ; Cost per child in DC public schools = $14000
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A pretty hard-hitting video that shows some of parents & kids who currently get school vouchers* in DC, but will not next year due to BHO's actions.
Change we can believe in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7FS5B-CynM&feature=player_embedded
* Voucher = $7500 ; Cost per child in DC public schools = $14000
Need we any more proof that the Democrats DON'T care about the poor and oppressed minorities?
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This decision even galled some administration supporters, Juan Williams in particular. Thus are the education prospects of "at-risk, inner city" students sacrificed at the altar of the NEA. :mad:
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A pretty hard-hitting video that shows some of parents & kids who currently get school vouchers* in DC, but will not next year due to BHO's actions.
Change we can believe in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7FS5B-CynM&feature=player_embedded
* Voucher = $7500 ; Cost per child in DC public schools = $14000
Obama's spawn gets the choice of going to a private school that costs $30,000 per kid per year.
Change you can believe in for the privleaged, run down gang riddled schools for everyone else.
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Well, yeah, but would well educated children grow up to be supporters of the Democratic (sic) party?
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Good. School vouchers are just a mechanism to embrace and then extinguish what makes private schools better in the first place.
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Good. School vouchers are just a mechanism to embrace and then extinguish what makes private schools better in the first place.
Perverse logic here.
Government money = government imposed standards.
Government standards = government oversight = NEA encroachment = bureaucratic protectionism = lack of professional accountability = public schools.
Vouchers are a form of sanctioned currency. Instead, tuition tax breaks at the state/local level make more sense, especially since schools are by and large paid for by the state and city governments.
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Sadly, tax breaks would not work - the people who need vouchers most pay the least taxes, at least directly.
Though it is true that the poor pay a lot of taxes INDIRECTLY - through rising prices as rich men and corporations try to roll over their tax costs to them, and through stuff like VAT, tax breaks wouldn't really give them that money back.
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Though it is true that the poor pay a lot of taxes INDIRECTLY - through rising prices as rich men and corporations try to roll over their tax costs to them,
Is there another option?
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Is there another option?
Tax people less?
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Redacted: I don't wanna derail the thread.
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Do you think that these kids would have reading and writing problems if the parents were practicing with them at home? Do you think math scores would continue to suffer if the kids merely did more problems on their own? I wonder how much of this education issue is the fault of the schools as opposed to the students, and their parents.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think we are asking the right questions, as a society.
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Look. Obviously, as a libertarian, I want parents to have as much choice in the education of their children as humanly possible.
If we let the educators get their way, they will eliminate private schooling altogether (slowly and gradually) and make sure the only people who go to the private schools are the children of the ultra-wealthy and politically connected. That's what they want.
Vouchers are not ideologically nor economically perfect. But they are a step, in the same way that licensed concealed carry is a step, in the right direction.
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Do you think that these kids would have reading and writing problems if the parents were practicing with them at home? Do you think math scores would continue to suffer if the kids merely did more problems on their own? I wonder how much of this education issue is the fault of the schools as opposed to the students, and their parents.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think we are asking the right questions, as a society.
There are other problems, true. HOWEVER, given that these vouchers have proven success at increasing the abilities of students (as compared to students who signed up for the program but were not selected by the lottery so it avoids the selection bias issue), this is something that will help.
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Voucher delenda est. They undermine teacher unions. Baaaaad.
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Do you think that these kids would have reading and writing problems if the parents were practicing with them at home? Do you think math scores would continue to suffer if the kids merely did more problems on their own? I wonder how much of this education issue is the fault of the schools as opposed to the students, and their parents.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think we are asking the right questions, as a society.
Kind of yes and kind of no.
Single mother working multiple jobs and long hours, being responsible but not having much time to take care of her kids.
Apathetic public school teachers in a gang infested school.
Kids probably don't stand a chance.
Or:
Same mom has choice to send kids to a quality school with caring teachers. PUblic school loses funding unless they find a way to bring scores and graduation rates up. Free market pressure being brought about to change the effectiveness of government services. Single mom's kids become grown up productive members of society.
Longeyes, I think you're only half right.
Obama is a true believer. He doesn't believe in the power and ability of the free market. He also believes in the power of the worker and is thusly a Union shill.
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I don't disagree with that at all. True believer, yes.
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I have two kids.
2 kids X $7500 for choice of schools + I would home school in a heartbeat if financially possible = $15000 for me to have a chance to work a part time job and see to it that my kids get what they deserve.
I don't care for the socialism part of it, but I would do it for my children. The public schools here are awful and there is only so much a single man with a poorly paid full time job can do when forced to use the public system in order to make sure that food, clothing and shelter are never a want.
I know I can do better than the public schools, but I am trapped in the system they designed for people like me.
And do not tell me to rise above my station. It is only getting worse here and I am lucky to be where I am now.
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d&a:
Vouchers were envisioned to let folks such as yourself have a choice other than just the gov't run school system. The affluent already have that option.
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d&a:
Vouchers were envisioned to let folks such as yourself have a choice other than just the gov't run school system. The affluent already have that option.
Yep. The assumption was that if the public schools wanted a piece of the federal pie, they would get their *expletive deleted*it together and start producing literate functioning memebers of society. Choice, free market forces, all that stuff. But we have a new sheriff in town who doesn't believe in all that.
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I disagree with vouchers.
I do not feel that the tax payers need to be paying for someone else to receive a priveliege.
Sorry to sound like an ahole, but if you can't afford private school, why is that my problem?
I went to public school. Now I am in college (out of my own pocket, no .gov help here). I doubt that I will send my children to a private school unless I somehow end up obscenely rich, which I doubt.
When my fathers jobs changed locations, and we had to move, which was luckily not that often...I only went to two differant school districts in 13 years (K-12), my parents chose their moving location based on the school districts. Right now my dad spends 2 hours a day commuting to and from work (1 hour each way) because that meant that his kids would be in a better school district than if he had moved into the city proper to be closer to work.
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I disagree with vouchers.
I do not feel that the tax payers need to be paying for someone else to receive a priveliege.
Sorry to sound like an ahole, but if you can't afford private school, why is that my problem?
I went to public school. Now I am in college (out of my own pocket, no .gov help here). I doubt that I will send my children to a private school unless I somehow end up obscenely rich, which I doubt.
When my fathers jobs changed locations, and we had to move, which was luckily not that often...I only went to two differant school districts in 13 years (K-12), my parents chose their moving location based on the school districts. Right now my dad spends 2 hours a day commuting to and from work (1 hour each way) because that meant that his kids would be in a better school district than if he had moved into the city proper to be closer to work.
Lovely.
So I get to pay property taxes to support educating children, but when I find that the local school fails at that, I get to KEEP paying the local government NOT to educate children and then pay for my children to go somewhere they will get educated.
You'll fit well in Obama's America.
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I disagree with vouchers.
I do not feel that the tax payers need to be paying for someone else to receive a priveliege.
Sorry to sound like an ahole, but if you can't afford private school, why is that my problem?
I went to public school. Now I am in college (out of my own pocket, no .gov help here). I doubt that I will send my children to a private school unless I somehow end up obscenely rich, which I doubt.
When my fathers jobs changed locations, and we had to move, which was luckily not that often...I only went to two differant school districts in 13 years (K-12), my parents chose their moving location based on the school districts. Right now my dad spends 2 hours a day commuting to and from work (1 hour each way) because that meant that his kids would be in a better school district than if he had moved into the city proper to be closer to work.
Hokay, then give me back the portion of my prop, sales, & income taxes that go to gov't education and leave me to my own devices. Fair 'nuff?
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I disagree with vouchers.
I do not feel that the tax payers need to be paying for someone else to receive a priveliege.
Sorry to sound like an ahole, but if you can't afford private school, why is that my problem?
I went to public school. Now I am in college (out of my own pocket, no .gov help here). I doubt that I will send my children to a private school unless I somehow end up obscenely rich, which I doubt.
When my fathers jobs changed locations, and we had to move, which was luckily not that often...I only went to two differant school districts in 13 years (K-12), my parents chose their moving location based on the school districts. Right now my dad spends 2 hours a day commuting to and from work (1 hour each way) because that meant that his kids would be in a better school district than if he had moved into the city proper to be closer to work.
Considering it usually costs less (in the DC example about half), and these kids have a higher graduation rate, I'd say you're getting your taxpayer monies worth out of the voucher program.
If the government isn't doing the job it promised, shouldn't its customers (the taxpayer) have the right to take their businesses elsewhere?
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I have two kids.
2 kids X $7500 for choice of schools + I would home school in a heartbeat if financially possible = $15000 for me to have a chance to work a part time job and see to it that my kids get what they deserve.
It is possible if you cut your lifestyle down. My wife and I are doing it on a 35k a year single income. My wife is a stay-at-home mom who is going to home school our children. We have no debt but the house and that we plan to pay off in 3-4 years. It is a sacrifice we chose for our kids.
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Isn't d&a a single parent?
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It is possible if you cut your lifestyle down. My wife and I are doing it on a 35k a year single income. My wife is a stay-at-home mom who is going to home school our children. We have no debt but the house and that we plan to pay off in 3-4 years. It is a sacrifice we chose for our kids.
D&A is a single dad, not something he could do. But the school voucher would give him the opportunity for his kids to have some choice with his tax dollars.
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D&A is a single dad, not something he could do. But the school voucher would give him the opportunity for his kids to have some choice with his tax dollars.
My apologies then, I did not know. I have great sympathy for you then.
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Thank you.