Author Topic: Breaking news  (Read 21279 times)

zxcvbob

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Breaking news
« on: March 28, 2010, 10:24:36 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/28/militia.arrests/index.html?hpt=T1

The interesting thing is, there are no details at all.  Just "Christians with guns, Oh No!" hand wringing.
 [tinfoil]

Maybe the group actually is dangerous and doing something very illegal, but isn't the story a little premature?  Or is innuendo all we need now for a news story?

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dm1333

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2010, 10:33:01 PM »
The fact that a raid was made is enough to make it news, the question is what was the raid made for?  Being a Christian militia?

Wonder if they are related at all to these people

http://www.hutterites.org/


zxcvbob

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2010, 10:38:05 PM »
I really doubt that they are Hutterites.
Hutterites are of the Anabaptist tradition (like the Amish) and therefore are typically pacifists.
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2010, 10:50:17 PM »
It's starting. I knew all this "Hate against democrats in congress" was a precursor to things like this. We, the gun culture, are being setup.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2010, 10:51:52 PM »
It's starting. I knew all this "Hate against democrats in congress" was a precursor to things like this. We, the gun culture, are being setup.


Don't be too quick to identify "us" with the people being raided.  It's possible they really were planning something unpleasant. 
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2010, 10:53:51 PM »
From the article:

Quote
Lackomar called the Hutaree a "religious militant group" with about a dozen members, who scattered as news of the raids spread over the weekend.

Are "the Hutaree" the same as the Hutterites?  I'm not familiar with either term.

And yeah, I agree with Battle Monkey.  A setup is likely underway.  Need to keep a close eye on this.  I would have expected the bogeymen to be Tea Partiers, not "Christina militias", but maybe the two will be linked somehow.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 11:02:25 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Perd Hapley

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2010, 11:12:47 PM »
The Michigan Militia is apparently not rushing to their defense.

Quote
Mike Lackomar, of Michiganmilitia.com, said both The Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia and the Michiganmilitia.com were not a part of the raid.

Lackomar said he heard from other militia members that the FBI targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats of violence against Islamic organizations.


"Last night and into today the FBI conducted a raid against homes belonging to the Hutaree. They are a religious cult. They are not part of our militia community," he said.

Lackomar said he was told there were five arrests Saturday and another five early Sunday. The FBI declined to comment.

One of the Hutaree members called a Michigan militia leader for assistance Saturday after federal agents had already began their raid, Lackomar said, but the militia member -- who is of Islamic decent and had heard about the threats -- declined to offer help. That Michigan militia leader is now working with federal officials to provide information on the Hutaree member for the investigation, Lackomar said Sunday.
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100328/METRO/3280313/Seven-arrested-in-FBI-raids-linked-to-Christian-militia-group=#ixzz0jX0mneFJ
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dm1333

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2010, 11:16:33 PM »
Quote
Wonder if they are related at all to these people

Related to Hutterites, I'm not saying they are Hutterites.  The similarity of the names and the Christian angle just makes me wonder if there is a connection between them.  Of course in todays world "Christian", "militia", "raid", and "FBI" are all you need to sell some news.

dm1333

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2010, 11:17:55 PM »
Quote
The Michigan Militia is apparently not rushing to their defense.

Off topic but have you guys ever looked at the Michigan Militia MySpace page?

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2010, 11:19:43 PM »
It not to far down the road from "Christian Militia" to "Right Wing Jesus Loving Tea Party to Center Right Gun Owner. The distance is usually measured in 4-8 year increments.
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Declaration Day

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2010, 11:37:40 PM »
Hello gentlemen,

I am the Wayne County Team Leader of the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia.  While we are not officially "upper management" of the Michigan Militia, we are the owners of Michiganmilitia.com and we set the standards by which all other state units voluntarily abide.

Despite the media's use of the word "militia", not a single member of the Michigan Militia was a target of this raid.

The Hutaree, who were raided, are a self-proclaimed Army of God.  They are a secretive, separatist Christian group who are "Preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive".   You can view their website at www.hutaree.com .   The information I currently have is that they have been manufacturing and selling pipe bombs, as well as threatening Muslims.  We will see how these allegations play out over the nest several days.

Every single unit of the Michigan Militia steers clear of them.

I woke up to this story, and have been on the phone all day with other unit leaders, as well as the media to clear things up.  Interviews from our media liaison (also our Livingston County Leader)  have already aired on the local news, both on the radio and television.  You can view the latest video here: http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/22981973/index.html

We've worked hard to create and build this organization.  We're not about to let a bunch of religious nuts ruin what we have.

In the mean time, I want everyone here to know that the Michigan Militia is truly a Constitutional citizens' militia, and that we would never condone harming innocent Americans.  I will be happy to answer any questions any of you may have.  If you would like to speak to me on the phone tomorrow (Monday), send me a PM and I will accomodate you.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 11:44:29 PM by Declaration Day »

HankB

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2010, 08:28:56 AM »
  . . . The information I currently have is that they have been manufacturing and selling pipe bombs, as well as threatening Muslims . . .
Aside from the sheer idiocy of buying IEDs from some guys turning them out in their garage (which is a good way to remove yourself from the gene pool) I haven't heard about a pipe bomb going off anywhere in the upper Midwest recently . . . what happened, did these geniuses advertise on the Internet and make their first sale to an undercover cop?

If there's something here, more details will come out in due course . . . if it's much ado about nothing, the story will simply fade, but the "BAD MILITIA" label will linger in the public's mind.
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Declaration Day

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2010, 09:39:41 AM »
but the "BAD MILITIA" label will linger in the public's mind.

Some people will think that no matter what.  Plenty of people DO think for themselves though, and by getting our faces and message on the news, we can reach them.

Declaration Day

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2010, 09:41:19 AM »
Interesting (but not unexpected) development this morning.  We've received some threats via email for speaking out against the Hutaree on the news.

taurusowner

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2010, 10:13:53 AM »
I've always wondered why such groups and people can't just train, prepare, and stay under the radar.  I would even go as far as to ask why can't they just not break the law, but we all know laws can change and can range anywhere from sensible to tyrannical.  But, dare I bring this up, even Randy Weaver was selling NFA shotguns.  I mean seriously.  Can't they just keep a low profile, keep the law breaking to a minimum or at least don't be brazen and overzealous about it, and just generally not be openly crazy sounding?  Why pipe bombs?  Why selling restricted guns?  Why go out of your way too look and act in an abnormal way and openly commit crimes?  Does that really help the cause?

RevDisk

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2010, 10:23:17 AM »
Interesting (but not unexpected) development this morning.  We've received some threats via email for speaking out against the Hutaree on the news.

Quote
One of the Hutaree members called a Michigan militia leader for assistance Saturday after federal agents had already began their raid, Lackomar said, but the militia member -- who is of Islamic decent and had heard about the threats -- declined to offer help.

Christian fundamentalist group wanting to kill Islamic folks calls guy "of Islamic decent" for help.  Buddies threaten to kill group containing person(s) of Islamic descent, because said group containing person(s) of Islamic descent refused to help because Christian fundamentalists wanted to kill person(s) of Islamic descent.  Dude, you couldn't make stuff like this up.

 =D
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Inor

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2010, 10:35:31 AM »
Something about this just does not sit right with me.  I have no doubt these people are crazy as a seven year itch.  But that is not illegal (yet).  So far, the only story that I have read or seen with any descriptions of charges was the one linked in this post from Detroit.  (Thanks Declaration!)

If there were folks in this group selling pipe bombs, fine arrest them.  But why is the news media focusing on the group rather than the individuals selling the bombs?  If this was ELF, would the media be talking about arresting ELF or would they be talking about arresting a few people that happened to be members of ELF?

I am not going to try and defend these guys, because I do not know any more about it than what I have seen in 3-4 news stories.  But it just seems like there is a lot more to to the story.   ???

MicroBalrog

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2010, 10:44:21 AM »
Quote
But, dare I bring this up, even Randy Weaver was selling NFA shotgun

Wasn't he found not guilty?
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Declaration Day

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2010, 10:50:47 AM »
Oh, *expletive deleted*it.  

The Hutaree were plotting to murder a police officer, then ambush the officer's funeral with firearms and IEDs.  

-------

Nine Christian Militia Members Charged With Seditious Conspiracy, Attempted Use Of WMD
Justin Elliott | March 29, 2010, 10:04AM


Nine members of the Christian militia group Hutaree have been indicted on multiple charges involving an alleged plot to attack police, including seditious conspiracy and attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, the U.S. Attorney in Michigan announced this morning.

"Six Michigan residents, along with two residents of Ohio and a resident of Indiana, were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence," according to the government's press release, which you can read in full below.

The indictment describes an alleged plot that seems inspired by weapons more associated with urban warfare in Iraq than with rural Michigan.

The Hutaree members allegedly "planned to kill an unidentified member of local law enforcement and then attack the law enforcement officers who gather in Michigan for the funeral. According to the plan, the Hutaree would attack law enforcement vehicles during the funeral procession with Improvised Explosive Devices with Explosively Formed Projectiles, which, according to the indictment, constitute weapons of mass destruction."

Hutaree's Web site features videos of heavily armed members training in the woods, but seems more preoccupied with battling the Antichrist than the government.

In one late 2008 post on the group's forum page, a member writes that "ATF searching local FFL for info on Hutaree gun purchases. All members are advised to be locked and loaded, things may turn hot real quick here."

The authorities say that all but one of the nine defendants are in custody. The ninth, Joshua Stone, is described as a fugitive.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 10:57:21 AM by Declaration Day »

Seenterman

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2010, 11:03:25 AM »
Quote
The Hutaree were plotting to murder a police officer, then ambush the officer's funeral with firearms and IEDs. 

Jebus, what's wrong with those people?

Everyone still think this is a setup and the democratz are going to round up all republicans into re-education camps? Its funny how similar everyone is ever though they think they polar opposites.  On Dem boards form 00 - 08 it was all Bush did 9/11, Republicans are setting up internment camps!! They have secret prisons!!!   

Two years later its completely reverse. Damn, same paranoia here, just a different flavor a couple of years later.

zxcvbob

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2010, 11:17:17 AM »
A little paranoia is a good thing -- it keeps you alert.  But the operative word is "little".  Some poeple go all crazy with it.

The nebulousness of the actual charges still worries me a little.  "A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, indicted six Michigan residents, two Ohioans and an Indianan on the conspiracy charges, plus attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence"

What law does Teaching the Use of Explosive Materials violate, and how does it pass 1st Amendment muster?  All the other charges listed could be derived from that one.  With the details given in a previous post this morning, what's wrong with just Conspiracy to Commit Murder?  Or is the fact that it was directed at agents of the state somehow make it worse than if they were trying to murder you or me?
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Declaration Day

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2010, 12:14:44 PM »
Here we go again, Focks Nooz is grouping us in with the Hutaree. *sigh*.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2010, 12:44:05 PM »
Jebus, what's wrong with those people?

Everyone still think this is a setup and the democratz are going to round up all republicans into re-education camps? Its funny how similar everyone is ever though they think they polar opposites.  On Dem boards form 00 - 08 it was all Bush did 9/11, Republicans are setting up internment camps!! They have secret prisons!!!  

Two years later its completely reverse. Damn, same paranoia here, just a different flavor a couple of years later.
Folks on teh intarwebz are already trying to link these Hutaree whackos with the Tea Party, with the militia movement, with Republicans, and with conservatism in general.    

Quotes from reader comments on the Hutaree story posted on Yahoo:
Quote
Arrest the Tea Bag Militia Wingnuts!
Quote
Just more republican wackos that dont know what democracy means. Their in the minority yet all they do is talk about democracy. Its the democracy they love so much that has put them in the minority and they can't stand that! LOL
Quote
I bet they were inspired by the neocon cheerleader, SarDUH "the retard" Palin. Got caught reloading.

Right there are three people who are eager to use these Hutaree nuts to paint all of us in a false light.  I could post more, many many more, but I'm sure you get the point.  Now, is it paranoia to acknowledge what's happening right in front of your own eyes?  

I expect that once I read the news tonight that I'll find prominent members of the media trying to draw the same false links.  I'll look into it in a few hours.

Furthermore, just one week ago I saw members of Congress and the media lie about racism at a Tea Party rally.  Saw it with my own two eyes.  Now, is that a conspiracy, and does my knowledge of it make me paranoid?

We've all seen a sudden emergence of trumped up news stories about violence against congressmen for voting for the health bill.  And while I'm sure that congressmen get threats every day, am I paranoid to notice that the reporting on these events went from nil to front page overnight?  

There is an effort to manipulate public opinion underway right now.  Does realizing this make me paranoid?

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: Breaking news
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 12:53:10 PM »
Sorry. I still don't buy it. Call me paranoid, a little or alot. Don't care. But if these guys are this level of nutters now, they were 3'years ago. And could/should have been arrested then. Nope. This was to supplement the "Right Wing Christian Extremist Report" put out by DHS and that Bull Dod looking idiot heading it. First the report. Then "find something, anything to prove some of the report was right". Saturate
tie media, get the narrative nice and strong. Then a slow push for sensible gun laws, not restrictive, but to "help"
stop things like this. (Nevermind that 10,000 laws exist to do such.)
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Abraham Lincoln


With the first link the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.