Breaking news

[Declaration Day]

The Hutaree are NUTS, and yes they were nuts three years ago.

They've been on our (meaning the Michigan Militia) radar for a long time.  I generally don't trust the media or the authorities, but believe me, the Hutaree are capable of doing what is alleged. 

Jim Jones was a saint compared to these guys.  The only difference is that the Hutaree were caught before anybody was hurt.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, if anyone would like to speak about this over the phone, send me a PM.  I'm a high-ranking member of the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia.  I have had conversations with some of the Hutaree members online and in person over the years.  I personally know the Lenawee County Commander who denied them aid when they were on the run.  You probably can't get any closer to this story than you can through me.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Does anyone remember the growing militia movement back in the early/mid 90s?

And does anyone remember the way Clinton managed to deftly manipulate the media and public opinion over the OK City bombing to halt the militia movement in its tracks , despite there being very little legitimate relation between the two?

See any parallels to today?

[Tallpine]

The Hutaree were plotting to murder a police officer, then ambush the officer's funeral with firearms and IEDs. 

Allegedly ... 

[Declaration Day]

Here is an interview with Frank Beckman and Mike Lackomar on AM760 in Detroit, broken down into 2 parts.  Sorry for the sketchy audio quality.

SMVM - FRANK BECKMAN ON THE HUTAREE RAID

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNHoG0orSew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuRv5lv3eYU

[Declaration Day]

Here is the Federal Indictment:  http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/03/29/stone.pdf

[mellestad]

Folks on teh intarwebz are already trying to link these Hutaree whackos with the Tea Party, with the militia movement, with Republicans, and with conservatism in general.   

Quotes from reader comments on the Hutaree story posted on Yahoo:
Right there are three people who are eager to use these Hutaree nuts to paint all of us in a false light.  I could post more, many many more, but I'm sure you get the point.  Now, is it paranoia to acknowledge what's happening right in front of your own eyes? 

I expect that once I read the news tonight that I'll find prominent members of the media trying to draw the same false links.  I'll look into it in a few hours.

Furthermore, just one week ago I saw members of Congress and the media lie about racism at a Tea Party rally.  Saw it with my own two eyes.  Now, is that a conspiracy, and does my knowledge of it make me paranoid?

We've all seen a sudden emergence of trumped up news stories about violence against congressmen for voting for the health bill.  And while I'm sure that congressmen get threats every day, am I paranoid to notice that the reporting on these events went from nil to front page overnight? 

There is an effort to manipulate public opinion underway right now.  Does realizing this make me paranoid?

Yea, these guys were nuts and don’t seem to be affiliated with the Tea Party or any mainstream conservative movement.  People who are linking them together at this point are uninformed, hyperbolic and fear mongering.

However, the people who *immediately* said this is a leftist conspiracy frame-job, or that they are justified in a plan to murder a cop because of the current political situation are just as bad.  I hope that is something rational people can see.  I hope things like this can get people to take a step back and slow down.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

However, the people who *immediately* said this is a leftist conspiracy frame-job, or that they are justified in a plan to murder a cop because of the current political situation are just as bad.  I hope that is something rational people can see.  I hope things like this can get people to take a step back and slow down.

Who on here said it was ok to plan and/murder a cop?  Who?

[mellestad]

Who on here said it was ok to plan and/murder a cop?  Who?

No one?

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I'm as rational as the next guy. But do you see the VOLUME of "Breaking News" coming out today. Anything could be slipped under the radar or under reported. All I'm saying is; after the Right Wing Jesus Loving nuts report and then the same wanting to "recruit" former military and
now this. By all means. Let's not jump to conclusions not in evidence. But there is not much in evidence, as of yet. And if the past is any teacher about democrats, right wing militia threat (made up or real) and guns. We might want to scratch our heads, say hmmm. And watch.

[mellestad]

I'm as rational as the next guy. But do you see the VOLUME of "Breaking News" coming out today. Anything could be slipped under the radar or under reported. All I'm saying is; after the Right Wing Jesus Loving nuts report and then the same wanting to "recruit" former military and
now this. By all means. Let's not jump to conclusions not in evidence. But there is not much in evidence, as of yet. And if the past is any teacher about democrats, right wing militia threat (made up or real) and guns. We might want to scratch our heads, say hmmm. And watch.

News volume looks about normal to me.  What is unusual?

[Seenterman]

Folks on teh intarwebz are already trying to link these Hutaree whackos with the Tea Party, with the militia movement, with Republicans, and with conservatism in general.   

Quotes from reader comments on the Hutaree story posted on Yahoo:

Arrest the Tea Bag Militia Wingnuts!

Just more republican wackos that dont know what democracy means. Their in the minority yet all they do is talk about democracy. Its the democracy they love so much that has put them in the minority and they can't stand that! LOL

I bet they were inspired by the neocon cheerleader, SarDUH "the retard" Palin. Got caught reloading.

Right there are three people who are eager to use these Hutaree nuts to paint all of us in a false light.  I could post more, many many more, but I'm sure you get the point.  Now, is it paranoia to acknowledge what's happening right in front of your own eyes? 

I expect that once I read the news tonight that I'll find prominent members of the media trying to draw the same false links.  I'll look into it in a few hours.

I'm sure you already know this, but most of the internet is populated by idiots (current forums excluded  ). Anecdotal evidence that some anonymous users posted on a left wing message board that this militia is linked to the Tea Party movement is inconsequential.  If news casters starts claiming there is a link between this militia and the tea party movement they better hope there is
proof or else someone would call them on it. Wouldn't Rush, Hannity, or someone else at Fox call B.S. on MSM if they tried that?

Suppose even *IF* one of these Hutaree members went to a Tea Party Rally does it really matter? I know the some people will try and paint all Tea Partier's as crazies but the reality is their just protesters.  I don't know how to combat the "crazy label" aside from maintaining the peacefulness already displayed at the protests, and possibly trying to get more air time on Fox News and any other media shows to actually air their grievances with the Gov.

Furthermore, just one week ago I saw members of Congress and the media lie about racism at a Tea Party rally.  Saw it with my own two eyes.  Now, is that a conspiracy, and does my knowledge of it make me paranoid?

We've all seen a sudden emergence of trumped up news stories about violence against congressmen for voting for the health bill.  And while I'm sure that congressmen get threats every day, am I paranoid to notice that the reporting on these events went from nil to front page overnight? 

There is an effort to manipulate public opinion underway right now.  Does realizing this make me paranoid?

I haven't been paying close attention to the reports of a Congressman having racial slurs yelled at him at the protest but I do have a couple of questions / statement.

I'm not doubting your claim that you heard no racial remarks but is it possible you didn't hear them over the crowd? How many people where there, where you near the Congressman the whole time?

Second, who cares if a Congressman got insulted by a bigot at a rally? Seriously even if one guy, or fifteen guys yelled a racial slur at him weren't there thousands of people at this rally? (I didn't read the articles, its really a non issue for me. ) If there was 1,000 people at the rally 15 racist people are only .015% of the total population of protesters. Its obviously a tiny fraction of the protesters. I wish a MSN reporter would say that, but they won't.

There is always someone or some group trying to sway public opinion, its the way of the world everyone's always trying to do it for one agenda or another it doesn't make you paranoid to notice that, but when from the word arrest people are claiming that this is a set up by Democrats or homeland security on some nefarious mission it starts to sound like nonsense, especially when the charges are this serious and we have a board member you is pretty much backing up the media reports. If it comes out that these charges are trumped up I'll be one of the first people on here to decry it and call for their release, and for someone to be held accountable for this but until then I will believe the gov version until some evidence comes out to prove other wise.

It would make us all look crazy to support a militia who may have been planning to ambush and murder police officers, we would do MSN's job for them. Do we really want that?  Lets not mince words, these people are domestic terrorists if these allegations are true. 

[Declaration Day]

From our local Channel 7 news:

ADRIAN, Mich. (WXYZ) - Law enforcement officials may have found the last suspect in the "Hutaree" case.

Sources tell Action News that the FBI is involved in a standoff in North Adams Village, about 30 miles from the site of Saturday's raid in Adrian. They are believed to be looking for Josh Stone, the son of the group leader David Stone.

The younger Stone has been on the run since the raid. So far the FBI has not commented on the standoff.

[GigaBuist]

Sources tell Action News that the FBI is involved in a standoff in North Adams Village, about 30 miles from the site of Saturday's raid in Adrian. They are believed to be looking for Josh Stone, the son of the group leader David Stone.

If the FBI can't get him out maybe they should call up the militia? :D

[Declaration Day]

If the FBI can't get him out maybe they should call up the militia? :D

I'd go if they called us, though it would be in Josh's best interest that the feds catch him.

The Hutaree have never been popular in the militia community.  Imagine how we feel about them now that we've spent two days of our lives on the phone with the media, explaining over and over again that they aren't us.

[Hawkmoon]

What law does Teaching the Use of Explosive Materials violate, and how does it pass 1st Amendment muster? 

I wondered about that myself. If teaching the use of explosive materials is contrary to Federal law, there are a number of U.S. Army combat engineer training cadre at Fort Leonard Wood, MO, who need to be held accountable for teaching me how to blow up roads and bridges. Horror of horrors, we were even given instruction in the placement of Claymore mines and Bangalore torpedoes.

I'd love to see the FBI trying to raid Fort Lost in the Woods.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I'm sure you already know this, but most of the internet is populated by idiots (current forums excluded  ). Anecdotal evidence that some anonymous users posted on a left wing message board that this militia is linked to the Tea Party movement is inconsequential. 

The exampes I posted are anecdotal, but the attitudes they exemplify are widespread.

If news casters starts claiming there is a link between this militia and the tea party movement they better hope there is
proof or else someone would call them on it. Wouldn't Rush, Hannity, or someone else at Fox call B.S. on MSM if they tried that?

The alternative media types have been hitting hard on the racial slurs thing not happening.  Didn't stop the MSM from reporting it anyway.

Limbaugh is out of town and not broadcasting anything new til Thursday.  And I think Beck is out right now, too.  Hannity is hawking a book, not too interested engaging the falsehoods.

If I was paranoid I would say this is by design, that the powers that be chose their timing well knowing that the opposition media was AWOL this week.  I'm not paranoid though, and I make no such claim.

Suppose even *IF* one of these Hutaree members went to a Tea Party Rally does it really matter? I know the some people will try and paint all Tea Partier's as crazies but the reality is their just protesters.  I don't know how to combat the "crazy label" aside from maintaining the peacefulness already displayed at the protests, and possibly trying to get more air time on Fox News and any other media shows to actually air their grievances with the Gov.

Absolutely it matters.  It tarnishes the movement, marginalizes it, lessens its ability to make a difference.  This is what the teh interwebz people have been so voracious in trying to draw the link.  The lefties out there know what it would mean to have these Hutaree whackjobs conflated with Tea Partiers and the anti-Obama political agenda.

I haven't been paying close attention to the reports of a Congressman having racial slurs yelled at him at the protest but I do have a couple of questions / statement.

I'm not doubting your claim that you heard no racial remarks but is it possible you didn't hear them over the crowd? How many people where there, where you near the Congressman the whole time?

Yes, I was near enough for much of his walk from Longworth to the Capitol.  It was only a hundred yards or so.  Just about anything he could have headr, the rest of us would have heard just as easily.  There was shouting and chanting and suchlike, but none of it was racial.

And bear in mind that Cleaver's initial allegations were that there was a "chorus" of people chanting racist remarks at him, that it was the whole crowd and not just an isolated individual.  And that the protest was as bad as the 1960's protests.  He's since backed his charges down some, probably due to the fact that there's video floating around the web showing him making his walk and nothing even remotely racial is visible or audible.

Second, who cares if a Congressman got insulted by a bigot at a rally? Seriously even if one guy, or fifteen guys yelled a racial slur at him weren't there thousands of people at this rally? (I didn't read the articles, its really a non issue for me. ) If there was 1,000 people at the rally 15 racist people are only .015% of the total population of protesters. Its obviously a tiny fraction of the protesters. I wish a MSN reporter would say that, but they won't.

The media clearly cares.  So do the Congressmen.  So do the people in the web, and the politically aware folks I've spoken with in meatspace since the event last week.

It matters a lot.  We're in a PR war, plain and simple.  The blatant falsehoods cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged.

There is always someone or some group trying to sway public opinion, its the way of the world everyone's always trying to do it for one agenda or another it doesn't make you paranoid to notice that, but when from the word arrest people are claiming that this is a set up by Democrats or homeland security on some nefarious mission it starts to sound like nonsense, especially when the charges are this serious and we have a board member you is pretty much backing up the media reports. If it comes out that these charges are trumped up I'll be one of the first people on here to decry it and call for their release, and for someone to be held accountable for this but until then I will believe the gov version until some evidence comes out to prove other wise.

It would make us all look crazy to support a militia who may have been planning to ambush and murder police officers, we would do MSN's job for them. Do we really want that?  Lets not mince words, these people are domestic terrorists if these allegations are true. 

Has anyone suggested that the charges are trumped up or phony?

[KD5NRH]

You probably can't get any closer to this story than you can through me.

Well, that's easy to fix.  Do you have any of their membership applications?  I'm sure someone here can get you Fistful's info to fill it out.

[Perd Hapley]

About now, they probably need somebody to blame stuff on. 

[vaskidmark]

Crazy as bedbugs, loons, hatters and all other comparatives - no question.

But I still am struggling to understand why, how, based on what rationale other than the preceeding, these folks, along with just about every other individual/group who plans something along these lines, believes that once thery carry out their act(tion) the "rest of the nation" will respond with a general uprising/ call to arms.

Yes, I know the answer lies in my first line above.   But still - really?  What makes these nutjobs think their cause has any more chance of sparking a general uprising than any nutjob cause that went before them?

OK, so I'm asking a circular question based on nutjobbery, which ought to provide me with the answer to my own question.  Maybe it's just that I am amazed, still, at the power of demogogery to "convince" some folks to swallow the kind of BS that passes for the manifesto of these loons.

Sweet $diety, think of what it would be like if they ran for public office instead of running around planning to blow up folks!

OK, I'm going to brew up another pot of cammomile tea, eat some chocolate, and go sit in the corner sucking my thumb while holding my blankie.  The rest of you may carry on.

stay safe.

skidmark

[HankB]

I wonder how long it will take for some Democratic Underground types to show up at Tea Party rallies just so they can yell racial epithets in front of the cameras . . . 

As for the Hutaree . . . if they've been building IEDs, they're toast, legally, and I have no sympathy for them. Put 'em away for a good long time.

But I personally tend to regard charges like "conspiracy" with skepticism until the person actually does something tangible. (OK, building IEDs is something tangible.) And asserting that they were building WMDs sounds like so much nonsense - in my book, WMDs are limited to things like bioweapons, nukes, "dirty" bombs, and poison gas. Conventional IEDs are plenty of reason to lock these characters up until they're old and gray - piling on WMD charges suggests the .gov case against all of them may have a few holes in it and they're "piling on" charges in the hope that something sticks.

But I still am struggling to understand why, how, based on what rationale other than the preceeding, these folks, along with just about every other individual/group who plans something along these lines, believes that once thery carry out their act(tion) the "rest of the nation" will respond with a general uprising/ call to arms.

Good question . . . Americans just don't like terrorists. Run around in the woods playing soldier and keep to yourself, and we'll generally ignore you. Start a war on Mainstreet USA, start murdering our friends and neighbors, and you won't get our approval, you'll earn our condemnation.

[Tallpine]

The camoflage thing is what gets me ... why would anyone think that running around in camoflage is going to make people not notice you ? 

[mellestad]

@Declaration Day:

Looks like your people got through on CNN!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/michigan.militia.arrests/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

Group arrested not Christian or militia, insider says
By the CNN Wire Staff
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Hutaree "really a fringe group," Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia member says
Eight Hutaree members arrested over weekend; ninth suspect later taken into custody
Federal indictment alleges Hutaree group plotted to kill officer, attack funeral
(CNN) -- Members of a militia charged with plotting to kill police were not Christian or a militia, a man acquainted with the group said Tuesday.

"This is a group that I would classify as neither a militia or a Christian group," said Michael Lackomar, a member of the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia. "They're really a fringe group outside of anything we do.

"They're more of a private army or a terrorist organization or really just a criminal organization."

Federal authorities on Monday charged nine members of a group called the Hutaree militia with conspiring to kill a Michigan law enforcement officer and then kill other officers at the funeral.

The group says on its Web site that Hutaree means "Christian warrior." Its home page said it is "Preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive."

Lackomar told CNN's "American Morning" on Tuesday that five Hutaree members sought refuge over the weekend with a Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia leader because federal authorities were looking for them. Lackomar said the member of his militia advised the Hutaree members to turn themselves in so no one would get hurt.

Federal authorities arrested eight Hutaree members over the weekend. A ninth member was arrested Monday night.

A federal grand jury in Detroit, Michigan, indicted six Michigan residents, two Ohioans and an Indiana resident on charges of seditious conspiracy, attempted use of weapons of mass destruction, teaching the use of explosive materials and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, said U.S. Attorney Barbara L. McQuade and Andrew Arena, FBI special agent in charge.

Read the indictment (PDF)

The five-count indictment unsealed Monday said the plot started in August 2008.

Attorney General Eric Holder called it "an insidious plan by anti-government extremists."

In the "About Us" section of the Hutaree Web site, the group says, "We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. All Christians must know this and prepare, just as Christ commanded."

The Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based nonprofit organization that monitors hate groups and other fringe organizations, lists the Hutaree as a "Patriot" group militia.

"Generally, Patriot groups define themselves as opposed to the 'New World Order,' engage in groundless conspiracy theorizing or advocate or adhere to extreme anti-government doctrines," the center said in a report, "Rage on the Right: The Year in Hate and Extremism."

The center also defines Patriot groups as "militias and other organizations that see the federal government as part of a plot to impose 'one-world government' on liberty-loving Americans."

The suspects were identified as militia leader David Brian Stone, 45; his wife, Tina Stone, 44; his son Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, of Clayton, Michigan; another son, David Brian Stone Jr., 19, of Adrian, Michigan; Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Michigan; Michael Meeks, 40, of Manchester, Michigan; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Indiana; Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.

A bond hearing has been set for 1 p.m. Wednesday.

Court-appointed counsel will be assigned to the seven suspects who were in court Monday because none of them had attorneys.

According to the indictment, Hutaree members view local, state and federal law enforcement authorities as the enemy and have been preparing to engage them in armed conflict.

The indictment alleges the Hutaree planned to kill an unidentified law enforcement officer in Michigan and then attack officers and others who would gather for that officer's funeral. According to the plan, the indictment said, the Hutaree wanted to use improvised explosive devices to attack law enforcement vehicles during the funeral procession. The indictment said those explosive devices, commonly called IEDs, constitute weapons of mass destruction.

Subsequently, the indictment said, Hutaree leader David Brian Stone obtained information about IEDs over the Internet and e-mailed diagrams to a person he believed could manufacture them. He then had one of his sons, Joshua Matthew Stone, and others gather materials necessary to manufacture IEDs, the indictment alleged.

According to the indictment, David Brian Stone and David Brian Stone Jr. taught other Hutaree members in June how to make and use explosive devices.

In addition, the grand jury charged all nine defendants with carrying or possessing a firearm during a crime of violence on at least one occasion.

"Because the Hutaree had planned a covert reconnaissance operation for April which had the potential of placing an unsuspecting member of the public at risk, the safety of the public and of the law enforcement community demanded intervention at this time," said McQuade, the U.S. attorney.

[Declaration Day]

@Declaration Day:

Looks like your people got through on CNN!

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/michigan.militia.arrests/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

Yep, that's Mike, a good friend and fellow SMVM Team Leader.  Our inboxes are being flooded with media requests today. 

Our Unit Coordinator has been invited to appear on Larry King Live.

[S. Williamson]

If the FBI can't get him out maybe they should call up the militia? :D

I'd go if they called us...

This interests me greatly.  Are you implying that, contrary to public opinion and media assumption, that your group would openly and willingly work with traditional law enforcement?

If so, then that's probably something that should be made quite public, as in try to slip it into everything from future media interviews to questions asked by curious individuals to official statements made to authorities.

[AJ Dual]

This interests me greatly.  Are you implying that, contrary to public opinion and media assumption, that your group would openly and willingly work with traditional law enforcement?

If so, then that's probably something that should be made quite public, as in try to slip it into everything from future media interviews to questions asked by curious individuals to official statements made to authorities.

More like repeat it every sentence so the MSM can't edit it out.

And the other thing that's been in my mind, all the way back since the 90's and OKC bombing, and the Clinton Administration's attempts at trying to link anything right wing, militias, talk radio etc. to such acts of extremist violence is that it backfires.

Either in terms of the '94 landslides in Congress...

Or now with trying to malign healthcare reform protest and the Tea Parties. Frankly, if the Republican gains are bigger than anyone expects, it'll be a good thing for all concerned, and let off a lot of pressure.

Just like I thought back in the 90's, if the Left just keeps maligning the Right as racist, violent, etc. ad-nauseum... eventually people will just throw up their hands and decide they've got nothing to lose and might as well get something in return for all the defamation.