Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?

[AZRedhawk44]

I've been wanting to learn to weld for a few years now.


I'm looking at equipping two bikes with tail racks and panniers.

My XR dirtbike has panniers, but they're pretty half-arse.  I don't like them much at all.  The bags have a tendency to slide and rotate around the fender, and better designed bag supports would eliminate that.  And it has no tail rack.  A tail rack runs about $150, and panniers are difficult to even find for this bike but tend to run $200 or more. 

The Tiger 800XC needs it all.  I do have a tail rack on order from a vendor, but he just emailed me today and told me his inventory system was incorrect and he can't fab me a tail rack until mid-February at the earliest.  Another $150, and panniers are $250 to $400.


All told, for the two bikes to be fully outfitted with various twisted metal bits to my satisfaction it will cost me $700 to $1000.  Before throwing any luggage at them.


In comparison, I can go to the hardware store and get 30-40 feet of 1/2" steel pipe and a pipe-bender for under $200.  A bender like this one (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-1-2-in-Swivel-Handle-Tube-Bender-8900-1-2/100647696) will only give me a single radius to my bends, but allows up to 180 degrees.  I don't envision a bend tighter than about 120 degrees (two acute angles for the tail rack). 

I have a friend with an acetylene torch setup, stick welder setup, and wire welder setup.  Former shop teacher, retired.  He's offered several times in the past to teach me to weld, we just have lacked a project to apply it to.

Should I cancel the order for the Tiger tail rack and fab this stuff myself?  Keep the order in place and fab the rest?  Buy fancy stuff for the new bike and fab stuff for the old XR?

[geronimotwo]

if the luggage is designed to fit a certain frame, I would purchase it.  you might open yourself to liability if something falls off.

[41magsnub]

Do it!

I welded a rear bumper for my land cruiser to include swing outs for the spare tire and a ladder/triple gas can holder.  It was my second ever welding project.

[AZRedhawk44]

if the luggage is designed to fit a certain frame, I would purchase it.  you might open yourself to liability if something falls off.

If I were going to drink a particular brand of kool-aid with regards to luggage and panniers, that makes sense.  But most people don't do that, and mix/match equipment on various brands of panniers.  

I'll be adapting some Seahorse SE720 cases as hard luggage when I want lockable/weatherproof containers, and using some Wolfman soft bags when I want soft luggage (soft preferred for off-road use since it's less likely to contribute to leg injuries in a fall).

So, even if I get fancy panniers, I'll be improvising attachment points for either luggage set.

[tokugawa]

AZ- make them- You have a great opportunity to learn a new skill to serve you for the rest of your life. What is the downside? You decide you don't like what you made the first time and make them over again? Your buddy is not going to let you ride off with something that is gonna fall apart. And you get to make exactly what you want, and won't have the slightest hesitation in altering them. And you will have a great sense of accomplishment.

 Make sure you use good steel- get your friends advice.  Maybe a chrome moly 5/8" thinwall? Or something like it.

 Years ago I fabbed up a set of rearsets for a cafe racer out of 4130 and used an oxy-acet, torch to weld them- it was fun.

 There is a book by Richard Finch,"welders handbook", that is a great overview.

[French G.]

I say weld it,but skip the crap pipe from the hardware store, strong enough will likely be too big in lower grades of tube. I'm also all for skipping the stip welder and getting shop teacher to teach you to weld it with the torch.

[AZRedhawk44]

I say weld it,but skip the crap pipe from the hardware store, strong enough will likely be too big in lower grades of tube. I'm also all for skipping the stip welder and getting shop teacher to teach you to weld it with the torch.

You're the second person to point out quality of steel.

My thoughts are, if the bike is laid down either on or off road, I'd rather have the luggage rack bend or break, than the motorcycle frame.  Using a lower grade of steel than the frame seems like a good idea to me.  If it bends, I get to bend it back while on the side of the road, and/or fix it properly once back home.

The more resilient the steel, the more the impact energy is transferred to the bike's core frame.

No?


Then you also get into the question of whether you can bend it with the tool I linked, versus the multi-thousand dollar fancy bending rigs available for machine shops and "power users."

[KD5NRH]

Well, if you have access to the torch anyway, why not just do the old fill with sand and hand-bend?  (With very heat resistant gloves, of course.)  The sand keeps the tube from collapsing in the bend, and you're not constrained by the bender's limitations.

[French G.]

I'm just wary of unknown mild steel falling apart in service, especially with vibration and shock coming from riding. Some decent 1/2" tube isn't going to damage your bike in a crash. It will be lighter than whatever size of glorified water pipe that would be strong enough. As for the bender I've bent a lot of hydraulic line with those type of things, not sure but you may be a bit outmatched already. I'd certainly test the bender with a little piece of the tube before I spent the money on it.

[tokugawa]

You're the second person to point out quality of steel.

My thoughts are, if the bike is laid down either on or off road, I'd rather have the luggage rack bend or break, than the motorcycle frame.  Using a lower grade of steel than the frame seems like a good idea to me.  If it bends, I get to bend it back while on the side of the road, and/or fix it properly once back home.

The more resilient the steel, the more the impact energy is transferred to the bike's core frame.

No?


Then you also get into the question of whether you can bend it with the tool I linked, versus the multi-thousand dollar fancy bending rigs available for machine shops and "power users."

 No.     a decent bender will bend it fine- the difference in stiffness of nearly anything is far more dependent on section size than material- buy good steel. It will weld better, bend better, take stress better, etc. Use what size  the other accessory rack builders use, as a guide.
 I do not know about the Harbor freight bender you listed- when I was looking into bending 1"  chrome moly for handlebars I was looking for a mandrel bender like this http://www.jd2.com/p-32-model-3-bender.aspx don't worry too much about the bending- either your friend is gonna know some one with a bender, or you can find a local shop to do them for you, or find a tool.

[KD5NRH]

I do not know about the Harbor freight bender you listed- when I was looking into bending 1"  chrome moly for handlebars I was looking for a mandrel bender like this http://www.jd2.com/p-32-model-3-bender.aspx don't worry too much about the bending- either your friend is gonna know some one with a bender, or you can find a local shop to do them for you, or find a tool.

For 1" and larger, find the dirtiest, most redneck muffler shop around.  That guy knows how to bend pipe, and can also weld it up for you better than pretty much anybody else.

[charby]

Remember if you make booger welds, you will have to look at them every day for the life of the object.

Thin metal takes some skill to weld and so does tubing/pipe.

[Tallpine]

Remember if you make booger welds, you will have to look at them every day for the life of the object.

Thin metal takes some skill to weld and so does tubing/pipe.

Yeah, a motorcycle rack is actually a lot harder to build than a bumper for a big 4x4. 

My big question is how are you going to finish it?  Welding is going to burn off any existing finish and add more bare metal.  Are you going to just paint it, or have it professionally coated somewhere?  Need to factor in that cost if the latter.

Also what is your time worth?  Do you want to be welding or riding 

[bedlamite]

Build your own.

I mig welded my own saddlebag racks before my trip last year from 1/2" square tubing and 1/8" flat stock for the tabs. After comparing it to a friends bike last fall, the one I built was stronger and lighter than the one he bought from Twisted Throttle. Total investment: $20 in steel, $10 can of spray on bedliner.

[KD5NRH]

My big question is how are you going to finish it?  Welding is going to burn off any existing finish and add more bare metal.  Are you going to just paint it, or have it professionally coated somewhere?  Need to factor in that cost if the latter.

GunKote is extremely tough once it's properly baked.  I've heard the same about the bake-on DuraCoat.

[geronimotwo]

too bad you don't have the means to do aluminum.  maybe a light guage stainless?

[charby]

  A bender like this one (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-1-2-in-Swivel-Handle-Tube-Bender-8900-1-2/100647696) will only give me a single radius to my bends, but allows up to 180 degrees.  I don't envision a bend tighter than about 120 degrees (two acute angles for the tail rack). 

That bender is designed for thin walled electrical conduit.

[tokugawa]

Here is a source for small quantities of steel.  They seem to be reliable and prompt. 

this is 5/8" x .083 wall 4130. It should weld like a dream with a torch and good quality rod.


Or you could go with 3/4"x 095 wall.  See what the rack bag mount folks use.

 http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=21424&step=4&showunits=inches&id=250&top_cat=197

 A long time ago I made an aluminum rack for my Yankee 500z- cut all the pieces, and brought it to a welding shop- they tigged it together while I waited. 

[AZRedhawk44]

Tok, that source demonstrates to me that the project becomes much more expensive if I shouldn't use pipe at the hardware store price point.  I'd be looking at $250 for pipe, rather than about $50.

And charby's assertion that the $120 bender won't do the trick, makes the next grade of bender available that mandrel bender you linked earlier, at $300 (probably more after shipping and dies/bits/pieces).

That makes the project cost significantly more than my first estimate.

[tokugawa]

It would be unusual to save money by building something yourself- applies to most things if labor cost is counted. The reward the product plus skill, tools, and the ability to build exactly what you want.

 Your friend the shop teacher probably has connections for tubing, bender, etc- what you need is someone in the loop in your area. The local EAA guys may know someone too, or maybe try the custom bike places.

 

[41magsnub]

It would be unusual to save money by building something yourself- applies to most things if labor cost is counted. The reward the product plus skill, tools, and the ability to build exactly what you want.

 

that's why I built the bumper myself.  Once labor was accounted for (spent a lot of nights and weekends on it) it would have definitely been cheaper to buy the bumper pre-built.  What I learned in the process was worth it.  I did have an advantage in that I had inherited the necessary tools and supplies (other than the metal).

[charby]

Tok, that source demonstrates to me that the project becomes much more expensive if I shouldn't use pipe at the hardware store price point.  I'd be looking at $250 for pipe, rather than about $50.

And charby's assertion that the $120 bender won't do the trick, makes the next grade of bender available that mandrel bender you linked earlier, at $300 (probably more after shipping and dies/bits/pieces).

That makes the project cost significantly more than my first estimate.

You want something like this. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_630_630?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Metal%20Fabrication-_-Pipe%20%2B%20Bar%20Fabrication-_-144207&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=144207&gclid=CMHjxsnnlLwCFaZAMgodogMAYw

As said earlier, fill the tube with sand before you bend. Make sure you have a outlet for sand to leak out when bending our you might get a blowout in the tube. Like duct tape the ends shut.

[charby]

You want to build something like this right?

[AZRedhawk44]

You want to build something like this right?

That's one giant piece... but yeah.  I want each side pannier and the top to be separate units.  But you get the idea.

[French G.]

I'm not saying don't try, but that's an ambitious first project. And that's from me heading off to weld crap all night. Not really stick welder territory either.