Author Topic: Job woes  (Read 1190 times)

client32

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Job woes
« on: July 26, 2006, 02:48:03 AM »
Seems to be a recuring topic around here.

I got a call back from a job that I applied for a while back.  The process is going through a recruiter.  I need to write an executive summary to present to a manager, then if all goes well the employer.  I haven't ever done this.  Anyone out there with some tips?

I am in the IT field, and am treating this like a cover letter.  Highlight recent education, job skills that match the description as well as the fact that I have worked in the same industry before.  Lastly, I have the paragraph about what a great person I am, you know, hard working and all that.

I don't guess I am in desperate need for this job, but I would still like some help.


Also, the last interview I had, I ran into a question I hadn't heard before.  I was asked about working in diffucult situations (bad boss, coworkers, etc) and I have some very good experience with this.  My problem was I didn't know how to answer.  I didn't think saying the jerk who used to be boss was trying to get me fired, but failed, now, he no longer works with the company was the way to go.  The reason I got the question was because they had a difficult employee that the new person would be working with.  While I don't know how professional it is to bring this up in an interview, I appriciated it.
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 07:42:37 AM »
client32,  

Best wishes on this.  What they're asking for in the 'under duress' question is 'tell me about your problem-solving skills, and how you perform under pressure'.

These kinds of questions lend themselves really well to the STAR approach, something I use liberally in interviews.

S ituation -- The old POS server blew up and burned down the building.
T echnique -- Realizing we had a critical situation, I evaluated and prioritized, etc...
A ction -- So I called the Fire Dept, realized we had tape backups at an offsite location,  
                & started restoring the tape backups to a new server.
R esults -- As a result, we were up and running again by the following morning.


Executive summary is similar to an overview, highlighting skills, experience, scope and type of responsibilities in past positions, and an HONEST assessment of needs (make it a positive) to round you out as the 'consummate executive', like "interested in improving my public speaking skills by taking a Dale Carnegie or similar course", or "would like to complete CPA certification in order to improve financial mgmt skills", etc...

Really hope this helps-- ( I need the good Karma in my OWN search! haha)

client32

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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2006, 09:25:20 AM »
More crap about this job.

The recruiter had asked me about salary, I declined to answer.  I don't like to answer this question for a variety of reasons, but this time was simply because I knew that I would screw myself out of money I could be making or the job entirely if I answered.

Well, after more badgering, I caved.  I gave him what I was making.  I get a call back no more than 10 minutes later.  They needed more information and they think that I won't qualify for this position, but maybe than can bump it down and do something that way.  What!?!?!?  Less than 10 minutes ago you were telling me how great of a candidate I was.  What the hell does it matter what I am making now?

So my questions.  Are HR/Hiring Managers only base how well a person will do or if they are qualified for a job by how much they are already making?  That sounds like a stupid idea.  
If a recruiter won't send your info on to the client with this information, but you know it is going to screw you to answer, what do you do?  Lie?

I guess I don't get it.
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TarpleyG

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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2006, 10:33:43 AM »
Tell 'em you are making $80/hr right now.  They have no way of knowing...

Recruiters, for the most part, are right down there with used car salesmen and mortgage brokers...don't believe a word they tell you and ask for everything in writing.  Unfortunately, being in IT, unless you know someone, you are pretty much going to have to go through an agency.

Sounds to me like you should just bypass this deal and keep looking.

Greg

BozemanMT

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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 11:04:08 AM »
I agree with Tarpey, they are hosing you.
whenever I get asked that 'how much are you making" I reply with what I want.
I want this much (and it should be appropriate for my skills and experience.)
it's never failed
And you know they always come back with "well, I don't know that seems like a lot" and you just say 'well, I can make that anywhere"
be the hard to get guy.
Getting a job offer is like getting women, they know when you are desperate.
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Sylvilagus Aquaticus

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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 05:57:54 PM »
...as far as discussion of pay when in the screening and interview process...
I feel like I do ok where I am now. Yeah, I could be looking. I could also make significantly more somewhere else. I'm a contractor and Texas is a right to work state. My manager could decide tomorrow that all contractors must die and I'd be out by noon.  

I've had 8 emails and 6 phone calls since Saturday, and 2 of them were acceptable enough that I'm planning 2 interviews next week.  One of them pays about double what I'm bringing in now,plus benefits. The other, a contract job for 6 months 'with the opportunity to go perm' is twice exactly what I'm earning, per hour.

I've found it best to deflect the specifics of pay until I've decided it's something I want to be involved in.  By that time, they've made a decision whether or not they're interested in me.  They make the first move as far as a number. I have three options at that point. Quietly accept that figure into my head and keep talking,  counter their offer, or, in some instances, Laugh and leave the office or hang up the phone.

I'm fortunate in that I have a specialized skill set that is difficult to obtain and for which the demand outstrips the supply. When the calls come from recruiters, if the job is not in the immediate Dallas area, I point that simple fact out to them and disengaqge.  Like I've said before, I ain't interested in working in Moose Snot, Vermont...or Bentonville, Arkansas, for that matter.

If you don't believe with every fiber of your being you're worth every penny you ask for, and then some, you'll never consider yourself to be the very best at what you do.

There's nobody better at what I do than me.  I work for the company that invented what I do.  I'm working for less than I can make elsewhere because I'm exploitiong the knowledge base in order to sell it to someone else at MY price. Why else would I make sure everyone I talk to has more than one way to contact me?

Learn to be a mercenary.

Regards,
Rabbit.
To punish me for my contempt for authority, fate made me an authority myself.
Albert Einstein

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2006, 08:48:45 AM »
Sylvilagus,

I have a close friend who could be described very similarly to you.  Graduated with a degree in whatever you majored in during the mid 80's to become a programmer, he's never worked as an "employee" of a company for any length of time.  He's tops in what he does, knows system architecture, and tons of other stuff I can't even pronounce.  Has made a 6- figure income for 2 decades now.

My real skills are languages, literature, writing and such.  Yet when I graduated with a Journalism degree, I found I HATED daily/weekly deadlines associated with working for a rag newspaper or periodical.  I flailed around in low-paying sales and cust. svc. jobs for a decade while trying to figure out how to apply my natural talents and adaptive intelligence to making a living; sort of backed-in to IT user support stuff 7 years ago,  and have stayed, because you can make a living with it.  

I would be willing to consider Moose Snot, Vermont or the like, for a decent income (which, straight-up at this point, I'd consider mid-50's or better), as long as it also included living AWAY from all things urban-- traffic, noise, pollution, crime, waiting in line.  I'd give just about anything to be in a stable, internal user support help desk position with an organization (can be company, non-profit, .gov, or whatever) that cares enough about its people that if you show up, handle your daily responsibilities with competence, and contribute to their success, then it's a win-win.  

To return this thread on-topic, I think BozemanMT had it right.  When they ask how much you're making, tell 'em how much you WANT.  Another friend of mine has progressed slowly but consistently by always adding $3 to 5k to what she is making and quoting that as an answer to that question.  She has gotten at least that or more each time she has changed companies, despite continuing in the same job responsibilities.

charby

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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2006, 09:00:05 AM »
fig and client 32

Would you consider Pig Snoot Corn-bred Junction, Iowa?

Charby
Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

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Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2006, 09:26:49 AM »
Yep.

Brad Johnson

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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2006, 09:35:46 AM »
Or maybe Prolapsed Rectum, Utah?

Brad
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Waitone

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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2006, 11:17:39 AM »
If a hiring authority asks what you make, deflect the question and write them off as an employer.  

If the hiring authority asks what would it take to get you, deflect by saying it depends upon the job requirements.  It buys time for you and give you a better view of what the job really entails.  I've been in marketing for far too, too long.  The game in marketing is to understate job requirements.  One particularly obnoxious omission is understating the amount of time you spend in travelling.  A detailed understanding of the job's requirements helps nail down the amount of travel required.  Reality is most bosses have a marginal understanding about job requirements.

If a recruiter ask about your salary, answer the question truthfully.  Two things are happening.  First, your salary is matched against what you claim in your resume.  Second, your prospective employment with the company is being evaluated against existing employees.

One big factor to remember is $50K in Moose Snot, VT gives you a standard of living you won't get at that level in Stinky Pit, NJ.  Cost of living is crucial.  The objective is to improve your position.
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Brad Johnson

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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2006, 12:02:01 PM »
Quote
One big factor to remember is $50K in Moose Snot, VT gives you a standard of living you won't get at that level in Stinky Pit, NJ.  Cost of living is crucial.  The objective is to improve your position.
Excellent point. I've had several people that actually took a cut in salary to move to Lubbock. However, the markedly lower cost of living ended up netting them a pay increase. In one case, the change in commute alone was enough to offset the salary difference.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

peteinct

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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2006, 12:12:12 PM »
Where, exactly, in New Jersey is Stinky Pit somewhere near newark?

My wife is from jersey and she hated that Joe Piscopo routine, What Exit?


there are some nice parts of New Jersey not alot but some.
pete

client32

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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2006, 02:32:01 AM »
Thanks for the advice everyone.

One of my problems is that I don't know what I'm worth.  The town here really doesn't have jobs for what I am attempting to do.  Also, people here think that unless the you come from the bug city, you are worthless.  So, I guess I should venture to the big city for a while.


Quote from: Brad Johnson
Quote
One big factor to remember is $50K in Moose Snot, VT gives you a standard of living you won't get at that level in Stinky Pit, NJ.  Cost of living is crucial.  The objective is to improve your position.
Excellent point. I've had several people that actually took a cut in salary to move to Lubbock. However, the markedly lower cost of living ended up netting them a pay increase. In one case, the change in commute alone was enough to offset the salary difference.

Brad
I'm going the other way.  The main reason I didn't want to give them the information.  The money I make here is next to nothing there.

I guess I'll see how this week goes.

charby, I would consider almost anywhere.  This town is kind of wierd, you don't count unless you have come from somewhere else.
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Nathaniel Firethorn

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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2006, 03:26:32 PM »
Quote
Where, exactly, in New Jersey is Stinky Pit somewhere near newark?
It's the part between Hoboken and Cape May.

- NF
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