$145,000 verdict for shot hunting dog

[41magsnub]

http://www.searktoday.com/jury-awards-star-city-man-145k-executed-coon-dog/

Short version.  Guys were raccoon hunting on public land.  Their dogs followed a raccoon off of the public land onto posted private land.  The hunters left their firearms on the public land and went into the private land to retrieve their dogs.  They say they would have called for permission, but the signs did not have a phone number.  I've never seen a no hunting or trespassing sign with a phone number, usually it is just a fence post spray painted orange.  

When they found the dogs (treeing a raccoon) the land owner was there and told them to stay away, he was going to shoot the dogs.  The hunters moved in and leashed their dogs anyway.  The land owner ordered them to step way from the dogs so he could shoot them.  The hunters declined so the land owner shot one of the dogs while it was on leash.

The owner of the shot dog sued the land owner and was awarded a $145K verdict ($45K compensation and $100K punitive).  Earlier the land owner was convicted of a misdemeanor and sentenced to 6 months in jail over this issue.

What are your thoughts?  I would have done the same thing as the hunters, though I think the dollar amounts of the verdict are excessive and are pretty much guaranteed to generate an appeal.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I can't say what I think and stay here.

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[charby]

http://www.searktoday.com/jury-awards-star-city-man-145k-executed-coon-dog/

Short version.  Guys were raccoon hunting on public land.  Their dogs followed a raccoon off of the public land onto posted private land.  The hunters left their firearms on the public land and went into the private land to retrieve their dogs.  They say they would have called for permission, but the signs did not have a phone number.  I've never seen a no hunting or trespassing sign with a phone number, usually it is just a fence post spray painted orange.  

When they found the dogs (treeing a raccoon) the land owner was there and told them to stay away, he was going to shoot the dogs.  The hunters moved in and leashed their dogs anyway.  The land owner ordered them to step way from the dogs so he could shoot them.  The hunters declined so the land owner shot one of the dogs while it was on leash.

The owner of the shot dog sued the land owner and was awarded a $145K verdict ($45K compensation and $100K punitive).  Earlier the land owner was convicted of a misdemeanor and sentenced to 6 months in jail over this issue.

What are your thoughts?  I would have done the same thing as the hunters, though I think the dollar amounts of the verdict are excessive and are pretty much guaranteed to generate an appeal.

Sometimes high punitive damage is to prove a point to future violators.

[Tallpine]

Seems like it would felony assault with a deadly weapon on the part of the landowner.    
(that's kind of fuzzy - ordering them to stay and wait for LE wouldn't/shouldn't be a crime OTOH)

The leashed dogs were no longer a danger to any livestock.

Their is no public land adjacent to my property (the nearest is several miles away).  So my first concern would have been if the coon hunters had permission to hunt on the neighbors.

I'm pretty damn territorial but jeeze - dogs can't read signs.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

What's the law on that in Arkansas

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[lupinus]

I can't say what I think and stay here.

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Try as I might I'm in the same boat.

It wouldn't be pleasant or end well for the land owner.

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[RevDisk]

Should have called the cops on trespassers. And only shoot if there is an actual threat.

[MillCreek]

Wow.  To shoot leashed dogs when the owners are right there and the dog is not posing an actual threat. 

[Kingcreek]

I've been on both sides but shooting the dog was out of line.
I've hunted and lost my best bird dog for a nerve-racked day until safely recovered.
I've had coon hunters with bawling baying dogs and a treed coon 40' from my bedroom at 1am. Not happy about it but not shooting either.

[Balog]

Shooting a loose dog that poses a threat to livestock or pets is justified. Shooting a dog , on a leash, under control of the owner, who is not presenting a threat? Totally unjustified.

[SADShooter]

A legal act is not necessarily moral, ethical, or just. I think the landowner in this case needs a primer on the difference. Not asserting that this shooting was legal, but even if the landowner believed it was, I think he crossed a boundary which abjectly failed the reasonable person standard.

[K Frame]

I might well have ended up killing the guy who killed my dog.

[Azrael256]

I might well have ended up killing the guy who killed my dog.

I think I'm less than 6' away from the target of an armed maniac who has just demonstrated a tendency toward extreme violence...  There's no way the shooting is justified (and evidently the law agrees) and the hunter has a decent claim that he thought he was next...  I'd have a hard time convicting the hunter for killing the owner.

I'm surprised this didn't end up a felony, but who knows if there was a plea deal or some such.

[Tallpine]

I'm surprised this didn't end up a felony, but who knows if there was a plea deal or some such.

Aggravated ADW, armed robbery, felony cruelty to animals ... I see all sorts of possibilities. 

I think the guy got off really cheap for $145K

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

his cost will be ongoing.   he will likely need to move  either before or after the fire.

[SteveS]

Seems like a reasonable award, given the circumstances.  I am not a fan of trespassers, but the hunters were trying to do the right thing and get their dogs off of the guy's property. 

[freakazoid]

I can't imagine the dogs were very far away from the owner when shot if they were on a leash, could take that as attempted murder.

Back home people spray things purple for no hunting, usually a fence post or a tire draped over a fence post.

[Tallpine]

I can't imagine the dogs were very far away from the owner when shot if they were on a leash, could take that as attempted murder.

Back home people spray things purple for no hunting, usually a fence post or a tire draped over a fence post.

Orange/red statutorily means "private, keep out" in Montana.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in va you can enter to retrieve dogs  must leave guns at property line

[SteveS]

in va you can enter to retrieve dogs  must leave guns at property line

All guns or just the ones you were using to take game?

[charby]

in va you can enter to retrieve dogs  must leave guns at property line

Same in Iowa unless you have the owner's permission to go armed. Even if you have a CCW you have to leave that at the property line.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

All guns or just the ones you were using to take game?

not sure . i would leave em all in the interests of not going to jail. let me see if i can find the actual code

[MillCreek]

Speaking up from the risk management side, the best part is that the award will likely not be covered by the landowner's property or liability insurance.  This means that he has to pony up the money out of his own pocket.  I bet few of us could come up with $ 145,000 at the drop of a hat.

[BlueStarLizzard]

The landowner behaved disgustingly.

I loath having hunting dogs cross my property. Around here they hunt with packs of hounds and the hounds can be dangorous (especially to companion animals) when running like that.
OTOH, they are generally pretty sweet when they've been left behind. I've grabbed ahold of stragglers crossing the property before and called for the owners to pick them up (sometimes they show up before I call because of the radio coller) and the hunters are generally very nice and prompt about collecting their dogs.

Shooting a leashed dog because it was doing what it was trained to do was snotty. Shooting it even with the owners taking the correct actions to remove the dog from the property is just downright wrong for a whole host of reasons.

[Firethorn]

A legal act is not necessarily moral, ethical, or just.

I agree, however the fact that the landowner was convicted of a crime and sentenced to ~6 months incarceration indicates that what he did wasn't just immoral, unethical, and unjust, it was also illegal. 

The landowner just really wanted to shoot the dogs.  He's paying a suitable penalty for that.