Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MillCreek on May 18, 2018, 09:58:06 AM
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/18/us/texas-school-shooting/index.html
Few details as of yet.
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I'm sure the sudden fame of the animal who killed all those children in Florida has NOTHING to do with this crime...
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Sad to hear. That is not all that far away. A project guy here today said he saw State police heading that direction at high speed when he pass through the area this morning. Hopefully few people are hurt and those that are can recover.
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Preliminary reports are saying 8 dead plus others injured. Just caught mention of it on the radio a few minutes ago.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/police-confirm-reports-of-active-shooter-at-santa-fe-high-school
Here is a link from the local NBC affiliate.
http://abc13.com/live-coverage-active-shooter-situation-at-santa-fe-hs/3490869/
ABC affiliate.
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This is about 4 miles from me, as the crow flies. Local news is saying at least 8 dead, one arrested (but 2 in custody ???).
Damn.. Just... Damn.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/police-confirm-reports-of-active-shooter-at-santa-fe-high-school
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I'm sure the sudden fame of the animal who killed all those children in Florida has NOTHING to do with this crime...
Early reporting is saying the creature pulled the fire alarm and shot students as they filled the hallway.
Geee... that sounds familiar, too.
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Here we go yet again. Ten dead kids in Santa Fe, Texas high school. Suspect in custody. Second person of interest being sought. Possible explosive devices found.
Fox News story here. (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/18/texas-high-school-shooting-leaves-at-least-8-dead-suspect-in-custody-report.html)
Coming so soon after Florida and with Nevada so fresh in many folks minds, it makes me wonder if there is a tipping point, where a majority finally demands the 2nd be repealed.
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What is with all this defeatism on the gun issue these days?
???
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Merged topics.
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Here we go yet again. Ten dead kids in Santa Fe, Texas high school. Suspect in custody. Second person of interest being sought. Possible explosive devices found.
Fox News story here. (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/18/texas-high-school-shooting-leaves-at-least-8-dead-suspect-in-custody-report.html)
Coming so soon after Florida and with Nevada so fresh in many folks minds, it makes me wonder if there is a tipping point, where a majority finally demands the 2nd be repealed.
They can demand all they want. It won't happen.
However, I suspect we'll see more creeping incrementalism. Age limit 21 to own a gun and probably universal background checks.
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They can demand all they want. It won't happen.
However, I suspect we'll see more creeping incrementalism. Age limit 21 to own a gun and probably universal background checks.
Yup. I'll wager "over 21" will be a done deal. I think Trump was cool with that, so like bump stocks, it will likely be a "gimme". I think there will be some significant lawsuits though, given it contributes to muddying the waters (on more than guns) on if 18 or 21 is "adult".
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What is with all this defeatism on the gun issue these days?
???
I don't know, but I don't care for it.
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Yup. I'll wager "over 21" will be a done deal. I think Trump was cool with that, so like bump stocks, it will likely be a "gimme". I think there will be some significant lawsuits though, given it contributes to muddying the waters (on more than guns) on if 18 or 21 is "adult".
From what I heard so far, the murderer was 17. Couldn't have bought the gun legally. We might know more about that after a couple days.
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I'll wager that the suspect(s) are from fatherless homes and on psychotropic drugs.
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As far as the aftermath causing changes in the law, the biggest problem is keeping the NRA from talking about "compromise". I don't think Trump would sign anti-gun legislation, but if the NRA tells him it is a good idea, he might do it. The only other concern I have is Republican Congressmen getting weak in the knees over leftist media/propaganda.
In Texas, I don't think there will be any anti-gun laws passed. The legislature won't be in session until next January and Gov Abbott has been very pro-gun. If anything, it might hurt efforts to move toward constitutional carry or other efforts to roll back the restrictions already in place.
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I'll wager that the suspect(s) are from fatherless homes and on psychotropic drugs.
Yeah, I also heard he was bullied and one of the kids shot was the one doing the bullying. Just hearsay though, I didn't see that in an article. I figure the information will be all over the place for a day or two.
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Too early for any real details but I'll make some predictions:
Shooter underage and acquired and possessed the firearms illegally.
Shooter had been throwing multiple "red flags" indicating a violent tendency for several months or more but was not dealt with do to PC crap.
Shooter made posts on social media that suggested violent tendencies and/or actual threats of violence.
Probably bought the bombs at a local gun show so he wouldn't have to get a background check.
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If there were red flags on this kid, I will expect our Governor and whoever else to come down hard on the administrators involved. We will see.
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Yeah, I also heard he was bullied and one of the kids shot was the one doing the bullying. Just hearsay though, I didn't see that in an article. I figure the information will be all over the place for a day or two.
We had a shooting here a while back at a small rural school. The kid doing the shooting was one of the "bullied" kids and the kid he shot was one of the main "bullies" according to some early reports.
That narrative disappeared pretty quick and they named a Highway after the kid that was killed.
So, even if the above is true, you may not ever hear about it or it will quickly be lost to other narratives. :(
bob
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From what I heard so far, the murderer was 17. Couldn't have bought the gun legally. We might know more about that after a couple days.
I don't think that will matter to them. Several of these have been "underage" already and they have continually called for "over 21". I agree that it's nonsensical (just like every other time a current gun law is broken) but it sounds "sensible" to the general populace, so it's a good, "We've done something!" soundbite.
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If a politician wants to raise the legal age for firearms to 21, I'll say hell yes- as long as it's also age of legal majority for alcohol, tobacco, and VOTING.
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If a politician wants to raise the legal age for firearms to 21, I'll say hell yes- as long as it's also age of legal majority for alcohol, tobacco, and VOTING. And joining the military
FTFY
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If a politician wants to raise the legal age for firearms to 21, I'll say hell yes- as long as it's also age of legal majority for alcohol, tobacco, and VOTING. And joining the military
Bring back the kiddie cruise!!!
bob
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If a politician wants to raise the legal age for firearms to 21, I'll say hell yes- as long as it's also age of legal majority for alcohol, tobacco, and VOTING.
Larry got in while I was typing, but yeah, it would screw those in the military unless that age was upped as well.
Constitutionally, I don't know how I feel about it. However, regarding pissing off the people who want to raise the firearms age, yeah, VOTING. You're either an adult that's mature enough to own guns, join the military, and vote, or you're not. Whatever the age of majority is, I think those three things should be tied together.
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... and then this guy shows up:
https://twitter.com/MarkTimbrook2/status/997520663207399424
:facepalm:
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I don't think that will matter to them. Several of these have been "underage" already and they have continually called for "over 21". I agree that it's nonsensical (just like every other time a current gun law is broken) but it sounds "sensible" to the general populace, so it's a good, "We've done something!" soundbite.
It's a lot better than lowering the voting age. I would hope, if we let guns be regulated to over-21, we at least make sure they do the same with cars. After all, we have to switch to public transportation to save the planet, right?
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.
That will interrupt the narrative.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.
So in about five minutes the news will stop mentioning it....
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.
So, Joe Biden's son?
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So in about five minutes the news will stop mentioning it....
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Nope. Apparently he was posting nazi stuff online. So Donald Literally Hitler Trump certainly empowered him to do this.
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On CNN just now, they were talking about whether the shooter had any "red flags." A so-called criminologist said that the shooter's access to firearms is the main red flag. I broke down laughing. Yeah, keep an eye on all the kids whose parents have guns. In a school in rural Texas.
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Authorities say Pagourtzis was armed with a shotgun and a .38 revolver that belonged to his father. They believe those weapons were legally owned by his father.
http://abc13.com/what-we-know-about-the-santa-fe-shooting-suspect-/3491593/
The crucial question: The guns were purchased legally by the father. For tracking purposes, in the column for "Gun(s) obtained legally?" should I enter a "Yes" or a "No"? I think it's a no. I'm fairly certain the kid didn't ask his father if he could borrow the guns for the day to go shoot up the school.
What says the hive mind?
On another front -- explosives were found. I think that's an important point. Remember, bombs were the "Plan A" weapons at Columbine. The grabbers can take away all the guns they want, but that won't stop people from making bombs. We need to keep pointing out that "gun violence" is a red herring. As long as we allow the aw-thaw-rih-tees to focus on evil GUNZ!, there won't be anything meaningful done to address the real problems, which are the factors that cause people to do these things. We need to re-direct the discussion to:
- Hardening the schools
- Putting a stop to (or at least a serious dent in) bullying
- Mental health
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.
Was it a high capacity fully automatic .38 revolver with a silencer and a barrel shroud and a chainsaw bayonet?
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Yeah, keep an eye on all the kids whose parents have guns. In a school in rural Texas.
Not very "rural," at least by Texas standards. More like outer edge of the Houston metro area.
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As long as we allow the aw-thaw-rih-tees to focus on evil GUNZ!, there won't be anything meaningful done to address the real problems, which are the factors that cause people to do these things.
This. Plus, bombs might not have killed as many, but almost certainly would have critically injured far more. The injured from a shooting often end up with a scar to brag about for the rest of their lives and maybe a joint that aches before a storm, while the injured from bombings tend to be missing limbs and organs.
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Great. We obviously did NOT learn anything from Parkland.
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/05/18/active-shooter-dimitrios-pagourtzis-southeast-texas-santa-fe-high-school/
“We shut the door in our classroom, turned off all the lights, did everything we could to get the students safe,” continued Rabon. “Then, the teacher actually ran and pulled the fire alarm, because we had no service to call 911 to let anyone know that there was a shooter.”
:facepalm: Because, of course, the school office and the fire department are going to know immediately that the fire alarm means "active shooter in school." If the protocol for active shooters in schools is to lock the doors and shelter in place, what better way to get that moving than PULLING THE *^%#@&*% FIRE ALARM?
This should be especially self-evident since we all know that the Parkland shooter pulled the fire alarm to get people into his field of fire in the corridor.
I said after Parkland and I'll say again: We don't need gun control, we need stupid control. And the stupid we most need to control is school boards and school administrators.
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:facepalm: Because, of course, the school office and the fire department are going to know immediately that the fire alarm means "active shooter in school." If the protocol for active shooters in schools is to lock the doors and shelter in place, what better way to get that moving than PULLING THE *^%#@&*% FIRE ALARM?
To be fair, police in a lot of places are dispatched to all school fire alarms now.
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Not very "rural," at least by Texas standards. More like outer edge of the Houston metro area.
Oh. I thought it was further out. Still - Texas, America - urrybody gots guns.
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To be fair, police in a lot of places are dispatched to all school fire alarms now.
Yes ... as responding to a fire. Not a peddle-to-the-metal SWAT response to an active shooter in a school.
The bigger problem, though, is that the active shooter protocol for schools is still supposed to be to lock down and shelter in place. What happens when the fire alarm goes off? Everyone heads into the corridors and toward the exits. So much for lock down and shelter in place. That's how the Parkland shooter got people into the corridors. It's not a secret, the news covered that extensively. So here we have a friggin' TEACHER pulling the fire alarm.
Sheesh. (https://i.pinimg.com/736x/eb/da/fa/ebdafae8dba9d975ab10b4e3539764fa--hogans-heroes-funny-photos.jpg)
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Yes ... as responding to a fire. Not a peddle-to-the-metal SWAT response to an active shooter in a school.
No, not SWAT callout, but police response to school fire alarms is in direct response to the use of fire alarms in Parkland so not “as responding to a fire”. Prior to Parkland there were no or minimal police responses.
Yes, I understand the downside of pulling the fire alarm, but honestly the “die in place” strategy doesn’t have a particularly awesome track record either.
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I thought all classrooms would get buckets of rocks!?
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I thought all classrooms would get buckets of rocks!?
That was one school district; don't remember what state, but it wasn't Texas. (South Carolina?) I bet they haven't implemented it yet.
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Oh. I thought it was further out. Still - Texas, America - urrybody gots guns.
I did notice it wasn't any of the districts with the widely publicized armed teachers.
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That was one school district; don't remember what state, but it wasn't Texas. (South Carolina?) I bet they haven't implemented it yet.
I know just being sarcastic. But on the other hand rocks are better than sitting in your own pee.
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So USA Today just came out with a winner of an article.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/18/gun-used-texas-shooting-explosives/623202002/
High-powered rifles such as the AR-15 can be fired more than twice as fast as most handguns.
My first reaction: Now I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty *expletive deleted*ing sure that if you were to convert both to full-auto, the pistol would be quite a bit faster.
And this is ignoring the *expletive deleted*ing retardedness that is the fact that they will be able to shoot in semi-auto faster than most people are capable of.
Re-reading it reaction: Or is this actually a case of them doing that whole "People with pistols stand no chance against someone with an AR because pistols bullets shoot so much slower!". Wow... I think it might be. :facepalm:
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I had the news on in the background this morning. They had three different conservative congressmen on, and what caught my attention was that each of them talked about bringing Homeland Security into this. The mildest idea was tasking Homeland with something like "assessment inspections" where they tour schools and make recommendations for hardening. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that outside of the taxpayer cost. Though it seems states could take that up individually without getting the feds involved.
The far side of the argument was creating the equivalent of TSA for schools. I would have a HUGE problem with that, and from more than the enormous annual costs. It was a little worrisome to me that the general topic was addressed by multiple Republican congressmen. That might be an indication of some "we'll do something" trend on that side of the aisle that leans a little too "police state" for my liking.
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My first reaction: Now I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty *expletive deleted*ing sure that if you were to convert both to full-auto, the pistol would be quite a bit faster.
And this is ignoring the *expletive deleted*ing retardedness that is the fact that they will be able to shoot in semi-auto faster than most people are capable of
Y'think? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFoM8S3JwZU&t=45s)
Then again, Jerry doesn't seem to understand that revolvers are supposed to be slower than autos. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM&t=56s)
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I had the news on in the background this morning. They had three different conservative congressmen on, and what caught my attention was that each of them talked about bringing Homeland Security into this. The mildest idea was tasking Homeland with something like "assessment inspections" where they tour schools and make recommendations for hardening. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that outside of the taxpayer cost. Though it seems states could take that up individually without getting the feds involved.
Apparently the NRA has created something called "School Shield" (or something akin to that), which is a program for having a consultant certified by the program go to a school (or a district), conduct an assessment, and issue recommendations. The link between this organization and the NRA seems to be pretty carefully concealed -- probably for good reason.
https://www.nationalschoolshield.org/
Using a curriculum carefully constructed with oversight from experts in homeland security, law enforcement training and school security, this 5-day course is designed to better prepare designated security officials to serve as school security assessors and assist in conducting school vulnerability assessments on behalf of their respective agency. Law Enforcement agencies looking to support the National School Shield® program should email to request to host a training in your area.
As an architect who has been involved in school design and construction, I was immediately interested and I contacted them about how to become certified. Sorry -- no can do. They only want cops as their consultants. That strikes me as incredibly ignorant. Police officers, in general, simply don't have either the time or the inclination to become fully conversant with fire and building code requirements; construction means, methods and techniques; new advances in building materials; hardware options; alarm system options ... in short, all the stuff that architects deal with on a regular basis. Frankly, I am really pissed off that I am automatically excluded from this program because I don't have a badge.
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I did notice it wasn't any of the districts with the widely publicized armed teachers.
But they had a retired Houston cop (was it "detective"?) as a school resource officer. I give the guy full credit fior having engaged the shooter rather than hiding in the parking lot, but I'm going to risk a flak attack by saying that I don't think retired officers should be school resource officers. The deputy at Parkland wasn't retired, but he was effectively retired. He was a thirty-year veteran, and I'm sure he viewed being the school cop as an easy job to let him pile up more years toward his pension.
Back to Texas. A retired cop isn't getting regular training, and if he was a detective he probably hadn't undergone much tactical training for years even before he retired. I know a cop in a nearby town who retired as a sergeant, then took a job as a conductor on a commuter railroad. Easy money, and he'll soon qualify for a second pension. I'm sorry, but I view a retired Houston cop working as a school resource officer in a smaller jurisdiction in the same light. I doubt he ever expected to encounter a shooter (how many of the people interviewed basically said they never thought it would happen "here" -- even though that has equally applied to every other mass shooting) -- I think he looked at it as a sinecure to supplement his pension. As I said -- full credit to him for responding rather than hiding, but ... was he really prepared, mentally and physically and by training, to respond effectively to a shooter?
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"Pull all children out of school until new gun laws are passed"
For some reason, this makes me giddy in a Ron Swanson kind of way. =D
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/05/19/arne-duncan-loves-brilliant-idea-taking-children-school-better-gun-laws/
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"Pull all children out of school until new gun laws are passed"
For some reason, this makes me giddy in a Ron Swanson kind of way. =D
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2018/05/19/arne-duncan-loves-brilliant-idea-taking-children-school-better-gun-laws/
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for that idea where they repackage a bunch of existing laws into a Sweeping Gun Safety Reform law, and then let the Left believe they won something.
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But they had a retired Houston cop (was it "detective"?) as a school resource officer.
One guy, easily identifiable, and known to be the only threat until the cavalry shows up.
I'm just marginally surprised the first shot wasn't into the back of his head. If we ever have a school shooter who really plans out the attack, that will be how it goes down.
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One guy, easily identifiable, and known to be the only threat until the cavalry shows up.
I'm just marginally surprised the first shot wasn't into the back of his head. If we ever have a school shooter who really plans out the attack, that will be how it goes down.
All the more reason to arm teachers -- and not let the students know which teachers are armed.
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All the more reason to arm teachers -- and not let the students know which teachers are armed.
Exactly. And it pretty much guarantees that armed people will be more or less evenly distributed around the school throughout the day, instead of hanging out in the office or the break room.
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Exactly. And it pretty much guarantees that armed people will be more or less evenly distributed around the school throughout the day, instead of hanging out in the office or the break room.
Or the parking lot ...
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No longer the leading story on Yahoo. Not even part of of the top 10 stories. No AR15 used, so narrative doesn't fit anymore?
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Ugh. I think this article has already been criticized here for its gun misinformation, but it also refers to the shotgun and pistol used "less lethal." There is just so much wrong with that.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/18/gun-used-texas-shooting-explosives/623202002/
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ADr35Z4TvATIc/giphy.gif)
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No longer the leading story on Yahoo. Not even part of of the top 10 stories. No AR15 used, so narrative doesn't fit anymore?
According to police, he didn't even use a semi-automatic.
https://twitter.com/CorySmithNBC5/status/997632899716435968
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Ugh. I think this article has already been criticized here for its gun misinformation, but it also refers to the shotgun and pistol used "less lethal." There is just so much wrong with that.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/18/gun-used-texas-shooting-explosives/623202002/
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ADr35Z4TvATIc/giphy.gif)
They sure made a lot of references to weapons used in other incidents. Can't let this little incident distract from the greater gun control push.
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Ugh. I think this article has already been criticized here for its gun misinformation, but it also refers to the shotgun and pistol used "less lethal." There is just so much wrong with that.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/18/gun-used-texas-shooting-explosives/623202002/
Well the bullets are just so much slower!
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All the more reason to arm teachers -- and not let the students know which teachers are armed.
https://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/comparing-two-shootings-at-two-schools/
I saw this Massad Ayoob piece from the other day. Compared the shootings in Texas and Illinois. In both cases, the bad guy with the gun was stopped when faced with a good guy with a gun. However, in one case, the good guy was close by. In the Texas case, the good guy was not real close. Pretty much makes the case for arming teachers who wish to be armed.