Active shooter at Santa Fe high school in Texas

[Perd Hapley]

I don't think that will matter to them. Several of these have been "underage" already and they have continually called for "over 21". I agree that it's nonsensical (just like every other time a current gun law is broken) but it sounds "sensible" to the general populace, so it's a good, "We've done something!" soundbite.

It's a lot better than lowering the voting age. I would hope, if we let guns be regulated to over-21, we at least make sure they do the same with cars. After all, we have to switch to public transportation to save the planet, right?

[MillCreek]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.

[Fly320s]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.

That will interrupt the narrative.

[lupinus]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.

So in about five minutes the news will stop mentioning it....

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[Doggy Daddy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.

So, Joe Biden's son?

[Jamisjockey]

So in about five minutes the news will stop mentioning it....

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'
Nope.  Apparently he was posting nazi stuff online.  So Donald Literally Hitler Trump certainly empowered him to do this.

[Perd Hapley]

On CNN just now, they were talking about whether the shooter had any "red flags." A so-called criminologist said that the shooter's access to firearms is the main red flag. I broke down laughing. Yeah, keep an eye on all the kids whose parents have guns. In a school in rural Texas.

[Hawkmoon]

Authorities say Pagourtzis was armed with a shotgun and a .38 revolver that belonged to his father. They believe those weapons were legally owned by his father.

http://abc13.com/what-we-know-about-the-santa-fe-shooting-suspect-/3491593/

The crucial question: The guns were purchased legally by the father. For tracking purposes, in the column for "Gun(s) obtained legally?" should I enter a "Yes" or a "No"? I think it's a no. I'm fairly certain the kid didn't ask his father if he could borrow the guns for the day to go shoot up the school.

What says the hive mind?


On another front -- explosives were found. I think that's an important point. Remember, bombs were the "Plan A" weapons at Columbine. The grabbers can take away all the guns they want, but that won't stop people from making bombs. We need to keep pointing out that "gun violence" is a red herring. As long as we allow the aw-thaw-rih-tees to focus on evil GUNZ!, there won't be anything meaningful done to address the real problems, which are the factors that cause people to do these things. We need to re-direct the discussion to:

• Hardening the schools
• Putting a stop to (or at least a serious dent in) bullying
• Mental health

[KD5NRH]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/school-shooting-santa-fe-texas.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Ten dead, and the shooter used a shotgun and a .38 revolver owned by his father.

Was it a high capacity fully automatic .38 revolver with a silencer and a barrel shroud and a chainsaw bayonet?

[KD5NRH]

Yeah, keep an eye on all the kids whose parents have guns. In a school in rural Texas.

Not very "rural," at least by Texas standards.  More like outer edge of the Houston metro area. 

[KD5NRH]

As long as we allow the aw-thaw-rih-tees to focus on evil GUNZ!, there won't be anything meaningful done to address the real problems, which are the factors that cause people to do these things.

This.  Plus, bombs might not have killed as many, but almost certainly would have critically injured far more.  The injured from a shooting often end up with a scar to brag about for the rest of their lives and maybe a joint that aches before a storm, while the injured from bombings tend to be missing limbs and organs.

[Hawkmoon]

Great. We obviously did NOT learn anything from Parkland.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/05/18/active-shooter-dimitrios-pagourtzis-southeast-texas-santa-fe-high-school/

“We shut the door in our classroom, turned off all the lights, did everything we could to get the students safe,” continued Rabon. “Then, the teacher actually ran and pulled the fire alarm, because we had no service to call 911 to let anyone know that there was a shooter.”

  Because, of course, the school office and the fire department are going to know immediately that the fire alarm means "active shooter in school." If the protocol for active shooters in schools is to lock the doors and shelter in place, what better way to get that moving than PULLING THE *^%#@&*% FIRE ALARM?

This should be especially self-evident since we all know that the Parkland shooter pulled the fire alarm to get people into his field of fire in the corridor.

I said after Parkland and I'll say again: We don't need gun control, we need stupid control. And the stupid we most need to control is school boards and school administrators.

[cordex]

Because, of course, the school office and the fire department are going to know immediately that the fire alarm means "active shooter in school." If the protocol for active shooters in schools is to lock the doors and shelter in place, what better way to get that moving than PULLING THE *^%#@&*% FIRE ALARM?

To be fair, police in a lot of places are dispatched to all school fire alarms now.

[Perd Hapley]

Not very "rural," at least by Texas standards.  More like outer edge of the Houston metro area. 

Oh. I thought it was further out. Still - Texas, America - urrybody gots guns.

[Hawkmoon]

To be fair, police in a lot of places are dispatched to all school fire alarms now.

Yes ... as responding to a fire. Not a peddle-to-the-metal SWAT response to an active shooter in a school.

The bigger problem, though, is that the active shooter protocol for schools is still supposed to be to lock down and shelter in place. What happens when the fire alarm goes off? Everyone heads into the corridors and toward the exits. So much for lock down and shelter in place. That's how the Parkland shooter got people into the corridors. It's not a secret, the news covered that extensively. So here we have a friggin' TEACHER pulling the fire alarm.

Sheesh.  

[cordex]

Yes ... as responding to a fire. Not a peddle-to-the-metal SWAT response to an active shooter in a school.

No, not SWAT callout, but police response to school fire alarms is in direct response to the use of fire alarms in Parkland so not “as responding to a fire”.  Prior to Parkland there were no or minimal police responses.

Yes, I understand the downside of pulling the fire alarm, but honestly the “die in place” strategy doesn’t have a particularly awesome track record either.

[p12]

I thought all classrooms would get buckets of rocks!?


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[zxcvbob]

I thought all classrooms would get buckets of rocks!?

That was one school district; don't remember what state, but it wasn't Texas.  (South Carolina?)  I bet they haven't implemented it yet.

[KD5NRH]

Oh. I thought it was further out. Still - Texas, America - urrybody gots guns.

I did notice it wasn't any of the districts with the widely publicized armed teachers.

[p12]

That was one school district; don't remember what state, but it wasn't Texas.  (South Carolina?)  I bet they haven't implemented it yet.

I know just being sarcastic. But on the other hand rocks are better than sitting in your own pee.


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[freakazoid]

So USA Today just came out with a winner of an article.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/05/18/gun-used-texas-shooting-explosives/623202002/

High-powered rifles such as the AR-15 can be fired more than twice as fast as most handguns.

My first reaction: Now I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty *expletive deleted*ing sure that if you were to convert both to full-auto, the pistol would be quite a bit faster.
And this is ignoring the *expletive deleted*ing retardedness that is the fact that they will be able to shoot in semi-auto faster than most people are capable of.

Re-reading it reaction: Or is this actually a case of them doing that whole "People with pistols stand no chance against someone with an AR because pistols bullets shoot so much slower!". Wow... I think it might be.

[Ben]

I had the news on in the background this morning. They had three different conservative congressmen on, and what caught my attention was that each of them talked about bringing Homeland Security into this. The mildest idea was tasking Homeland with something like "assessment inspections" where they tour schools and make recommendations for hardening. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that outside of the taxpayer cost. Though it seems states could take that up individually without getting the feds involved.

The far side of the argument was creating the equivalent of TSA for schools. I would have a HUGE problem with that, and from more than the enormous annual costs. It was a little worrisome to me that the general topic was addressed by multiple Republican congressmen. That might be an indication of some "we'll do something" trend on that side of the aisle  that leans a little too "police state" for my liking.

[KD5NRH]

My first reaction: Now I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty *expletive deleted*ing sure that if you were to convert both to full-auto, the pistol would be quite a bit faster.
And this is ignoring the *expletive deleted*ing retardedness that is the fact that they will be able to shoot in semi-auto faster than most people are capable of

Y'think?

Then again, Jerry doesn't seem to understand that revolvers are supposed to be slower than autos.

[Hawkmoon]

I had the news on in the background this morning. They had three different conservative congressmen on, and what caught my attention was that each of them talked about bringing Homeland Security into this. The mildest idea was tasking Homeland with something like "assessment inspections" where they tour schools and make recommendations for hardening. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that outside of the taxpayer cost. Though it seems states could take that up individually without getting the feds involved.

Apparently the NRA has created something called "School Shield" (or something akin to that), which is a program for having a consultant certified by the program go to a school (or a district), conduct an assessment, and issue recommendations. The link between this organization and the NRA seems to be pretty carefully concealed -- probably for good reason.

https://www.nationalschoolshield.org/

Using a curriculum carefully constructed with oversight from experts in homeland security, law enforcement training and school security, this 5-day course is designed to better prepare designated security officials to serve as school security assessors and assist in conducting school vulnerability assessments on behalf of their respective agency. Law Enforcement agencies looking to support the National School Shield® program should email to request to host a training in your area.

As an architect who has been involved in school design and construction, I was immediately interested and I contacted them about how to become certified. Sorry -- no can do. They only want cops as their consultants. That strikes me as incredibly ignorant. Police officers, in general, simply don't have either the time or the inclination to become fully conversant with fire and building code requirements; construction means, methods and techniques; new advances in building materials; hardware options; alarm system options ... in short, all the stuff that architects deal with on a regular basis. Frankly, I am really pissed off that I am automatically excluded from this program because I don't have a badge.

[Hawkmoon]

I did notice it wasn't any of the districts with the widely publicized armed teachers.

But they had a retired Houston cop (was it "detective"?) as a school resource officer. I give the guy full credit fior having engaged the shooter rather than hiding in the parking lot, but I'm going to risk a flak attack by saying that I don't think retired officers should be school resource officers. The deputy at Parkland wasn't retired, but he was effectively retired. He was a thirty-year veteran, and I'm sure he viewed being the school cop as an easy job to let him pile up more years toward his pension.

Back to Texas. A retired cop isn't getting regular training, and if he was a detective he probably hadn't undergone much tactical training for years even before he retired. I know a cop in a nearby town who retired as a sergeant, then took a job as a conductor on a commuter railroad. Easy money, and he'll soon qualify for a second pension. I'm sorry, but I view a retired Houston cop working as a school resource officer in a smaller jurisdiction in the same light. I doubt he ever expected to encounter a shooter (how many of the people interviewed basically said they never thought it would happen "here" -- even though that has equally applied to every other mass shooting) -- I think he looked at it as a sinecure to supplement his pension. As I said -- full credit to him for responding rather than hiding, but ... was he really prepared, mentally and physically and by training, to respond effectively to a shooter?