Post by: esheato on November 26, 2007, 04:32:00 PM
Monday , November 26, 2007
By Catherine Donaldson-Evans
After a sheet metal plant in Connecticut ordered its employees to speak only English on the job because of safety concerns, five Spanish-speaking workers decided to take the company to court.
The employees, who are legal immigrants, say the rule amounts to discrimination and actually makes the workplace more hazardous.
"I can think of no good reason for them to institute this policy," said Steven Jacobs, the lawyer for the workers who are suing GC Industries in Deep River, Conn. "It's offensive to people who speak Spanish and is potentially dangerous. It inhibits them from communicating in their native tongue in situations that could put people at risk."
According to the lawsuit, the plant's "Common Language Policy" was suddenly posted in fliers on the factory bulletin board on March 15, 2006.
The notice stated that "there be one language spoken during working time at all plants and facilities of GCI, and that language is English." It specified that the policy would be enforced when "any employee is 'on the clock,'" and said violations could lead to warnings and dismissal.
Court documents show that the announcement, which was also posted in Spanish, was signed by company president Thomas Arbella.
But Andres Moran, who speaks fluent English, said he and his four co-plaintiffs needed to communicate in Spanish in order to do their jobs.
"Not everybody over there is fluent in English," said Moran, 22. "How would I be able to talk to them? I wouldn't be able to communicate with them. That was my argument. ... I kept on speaking Spanish to whoever understood my language."
The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has discouraged such blanket English-only mandates at work, unless they are justified as a business necessity.
"A rule requiring employees to speak only English at all times on the job may violate Title VII, unless an employer shows it is necessary for conducting business," the EEOC says on its Web site. "If an employer believes the English-only rule is critical for business purposes, employees have to be told when they must speak English and the consequences for violating the rule."
A company must also specify why the use of another language hurts or interferes with productivity and efficiency, according to the EEOC.
Moran said that although the rest of the GCI employees "kind of shut their mouth and didn't speak at all," he and the other four continued to use Spanish with their coworkers who weren't well-versed in English.
The five plaintiffs received a second warning to stop speaking Spanish while at work or face dismissal. Executives told the workers that they could institute any policy they liked because GCI is a private company.
"I felt like I was a slave, basically," said Moran. "I felt discriminated against, violated. I didn't know what to do."
Moran was later transferred from being a packer which involves packaging sheets of metal to the more strenuous and less desirable job of hanger, which requires workers to hang heavy sections of metal on racks on the assembly line.
Despite the fact that it was harder work, he said, he was paid the same $9 an hour.
When he persisted in speaking Spanish and asking for his old job back, Moran was laid off after about nine months with the company, he said.
"Richard [Gordon, GCI general manager] took me outside and said, 'We don't need you working anymore. We're not getting as much production,'" Moran remembered. "The next week, they hired somebody else."
A woman answering the phone at GCI declined to give her name or comment on the legal battle.
The five workers filed their discrimination lawsuit against GCI last week, and are seeking compensatory and punitive damages in the amount of $100,000 per employee, according to Jacobs. The civil suit could ultimately go before a jury.
Jacobs said he also filed a discrimination complaint on behalf of the men with the EEOC and the Connecticut Commission on Human Rights in late spring of 2006.
The plaintiffs contend that GCI hasn't demonstrated how speaking Spanish has had a negative impact on business. To the contrary, they argue, the common-language rule could actually hurt workflow, since so many employees have limited knowledge of English. Most of the GCI employees are of Hispanic origin, according to Jacobs.
"The company claims that the reason for the rule was to enhance the safety of the workplace," he said. "I find that excuse hard to accept when 75 to 80 percent of the workforce speaks Spanish."
He and his clients remain bewildered about what triggered the change in policy.
"I still don't know why they did it," Moran said. "Nobody complained. Nobody cared. ... They're still trying to tell people not to speak Spanish."
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I don't even know where to begin...
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 26, 2007, 04:48:05 PM
Post by: Fly320s on November 26, 2007, 06:47:39 PM
It won't stop the court case though.
Post by: Manedwolf on November 27, 2007, 01:08:15 AM
Quote
The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission sued the Salvation Army this month in U.S. District Court in Boston saying a Framingham, Mass., thrift store violated the civil rights of two female Hispanic immigrants. The lawsuit is the second the EEOC has filed against the Salvation Army involving its English-only rule.
They sued the freaking SALVATION ARMY.
You know, the people who would show up if they were caught in a disaster, put a blanket around them and a hot drink in their hands?
How low can these people get?
Post by: Iain on November 27, 2007, 01:53:48 AM
I can't find any references to the Salvation Army in the original post anyway.
Post by: Firethorn on November 27, 2007, 02:23:59 AM
You don't get better at english(or any other language) unless you practice. One of the best methods for learning a language is immersion.
The safety argument makes sense - when the SHTF, you'll tend to speak in the language you're used to, and I assume not everybody in the shop speaks spanish.
Unfortunately spanish speaking immigrants are handicapping themselves because they're not learning english - most previous immigration waves dedicated themselves to learning it. And we've catered to them, offering classes in spanish, documentation in spanish, spanish radio and TV, etc...
Though when I think about it, this also happened in the various 'chinatowns'.
Post by: doczinn on November 27, 2007, 04:58:08 AM
Quote
Though when I think about it, this also happened in the various 'chinatowns'.
And didn't help there either, and only declined when immigration from China declined.
Post by: Manedwolf on November 27, 2007, 05:10:06 AM
Quote
Though when I think about it, this also happened in the various 'chinatowns'.
And didn't help there either, and only declined when immigration from China declined.Chinatowns also weren't as insular, and in fact depended on income from the surrounding cities. I've read the history of Chinatowns, and the restaurants that created the "American Chinese" food. In the earlier part of the 20th century, in many cities, the whitest of white Americans would "go down to Chinatown" for some chop suey and tea from a tea shop. The restaurant owners at least tried to speak English, even if a bit broken!
This is not the same as many Spanish-only areas. There's parts of Miami where there is no attempt made to speak English, where restaurant owners and staff don't speak English at all, and outright view English-only speakers with sullen hostility, making you feel like you don't belong in the area at all. Same with stores. They don't want your business. I know, I lived there.
Post by: K Frame on November 27, 2007, 05:15:50 AM
Actually... No.
As today, some immigrants did want to learn the language quickly so that they would fit in in their new country.
Others, however, had no intention of doing so and moved into ethnic enclaves, which gave rise to areas such as Chinatown, Little Italy, Polakville, Hunkytown, Russiatown, etc., where chances were good that they would never have to learn a word of English. A coworker's Great Grandmother immigrated from Italy as a child just before World War I. She never learned more than a few phrases of English.
My Grandfather was born in 1902 or 1904 (can't remember) in a fairly isolated, rural area of Central Pennsylvania. The entire village had, about 100 years before, picked up and moved enmasse from Germany to the United States. My Grandfather spoke German in the home and the local school. Yes, he knew English, but his Grandfather, son of original immigrants, never did learn English.
What killed the German language in that village was World War I and the wave of anti-German sentiment that swept the nation at that time.
Post by: Ben on November 27, 2007, 06:23:15 AM
Post by: Antibubba on November 27, 2007, 07:05:50 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 27, 2007, 07:23:46 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on November 27, 2007, 07:25:40 AM
if it failed to hold up in a va court i don'y give it long odds in new england
Depends. Connecticut is becoming extremely liberal, unfortunately, at least in parts.
Post by: Brad Johnson on November 27, 2007, 07:33:37 AM
Brad
Post by: roo_ster on November 27, 2007, 07:44:14 AM
What killed the German language in that village was World War I and the wave of anti-German sentiment that swept the nation at that time.
And I am personally grateful for that. I doubt I would have done as well in school, employment, and life if my folks (and maybe even myself) had grown up speaking German, as my grandfolks did.
Post by: Tallpine on November 27, 2007, 09:01:02 AM
Post by: TF_FH on November 27, 2007, 01:31:13 PM
Post by: grampster on November 27, 2007, 01:39:29 PM
Sort of shows the difference between the immigrants of the last century vs. those who come here now. Many of them do not even want to assimilate. If you can't or won't speak English, how can you participate in our political realm, or expect to better yourself job wise? Hanging on to one's indigenous language as your only or primary language when you immigrate condemns one to the lower classes.
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on November 28, 2007, 05:08:17 AM
Wasn't until the next morning that I noticed that there was a patch on the back of my head (about 2" by 2") that was longer than the rest by about 1/2" to 3/4"... No biggie, head back in to the same place last night to get it fixed. Was greeted at the counter by another non-native speaker. I could easily tell that she was from one of the slavic countries, just not which one. No problem. I explain to her the problem with the area on the back of my head that is the problem, she steers me towards the chair, again, no problem. So I'm trying to explain to her exactly what I want done and she kinda laughs... I'm thinking "ok, that's odd, but ok". I point out the exact area, and try very carefully to explain what I want done, and she again laughs and says "Ok"... She grabs the comb and scissors, then starts measuring AT THE FRONT of my head. I quickly point out that that's not the area where the problem is, she says, "Yeah, I know," and before I can even say another word proceeds to cut anyways.
Well, at that point in time I knew I was screwed. Sat through while she cut the rest of the hair *much* shorter than what I'd wanted. So then after she's done, she makes the mistake of asking what I thought.... I patiently explained to her that she hadn't done what I'd wanted, and done what I hadn't wanted.... So she then proceeds to grab the shears and start cutting more!!!
So then she asks again what I thought. And I decided that I was try to politely explain what the problem was. And all she was capable of saying to my complaint was (in a *very* heavy accent), "You say hair too long, I fix!" So I go around the merry go round again, explaining that yes, ONE AREA was too long, and that was ALL that I wanted her to cut. Finally the person in charge that night came over to the chair and asked me to explain what the problem was. So I went into detail about how I'd come in only to get one area evened out, and that she'd taken upon herself to take from 1/2 to 3/4" from all over instead of just evening out the one area that I'd asked her to take care of. Person in charge offers free haircut, blah blah blah.
I get out of the chair, and then I'm trying to politely explain to her that I don't really *want* a free haircut, I want the person who is cutting my hair to actually *listen* to what I'm saying. And then it dawned on me that it wasn't a matter of listening, so much as it was a matter of comprehending the English language. And as politely as I could, pointed out the fact that perhaps English comprehension was the problem. Yes, this was just a haircut. Yes, it'll grow back. But damn it, is it too much to ask for people who are cutting my hair to actually SPEAK ENGLISH WELL ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M ASKING THEM TO DO?
And you know, I know english is a messed up, difficult language to learn. But I'm an immigrant too. My family moved here when I was 11 from Brazil. And I don't have even a trace of a foreign accent in my English.
Post by: Manedwolf on November 28, 2007, 05:20:22 AM
And you know, I know english is a messed up, difficult language to learn. But I'm an immigrant too. My family moved here when I was 11 from Brazil. And I don't have even a trace of a foreign accent in my English.
Nashua has a pretty sizable Brazilian community, they own some really good restaurants, neat shops and such. Seems to be a very old-world culture, people dressing up for dinner and all...and I never hear Portuguese in public, just English. Very nice people.
I get the opposite vibe from the Mexican community in general, people who seem to resent if you don't understand Spanish.
Not sure why there's such a difference.
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on November 28, 2007, 05:48:03 AM
Post by: jefnvk on November 28, 2007, 06:18:16 AM
I visited Iceland for a week. I felt bad not being able to converse in anything more than hello/goodbye, even thoough the population didn't mind speaking English at all. I'm headed to the Czech Republic next semester, and while I won't know anything as soon as I get there, and probably won't be fluent by the time I leave, I'm doing as much of my talking in Czech as possible, as soon as possible.
If I were moving to a country permenantly for work, you can bet I would have a good grasp of the language before I even went.
Post by: Firethorn on November 28, 2007, 06:48:38 AM
But today we have 3rd generation citizens that don't know english, and I have a problem with that.
I know from my experience in Germany that learning a new language is hard.
Post by: bluerock on November 28, 2007, 07:31:57 AM
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on November 28, 2007, 07:46:01 AM
Well this shows how employers hire immigrants both legal and not legal to perform tasks at a cheaper rate so they can make more money. Where I work we have immigrants legal and maybe not legal working there. But you know they are trying to learn the language. They ask questions on names of parts on a machine. They try and converse to better do their job with other workers.Some are not so tolerant as others. I can see where a employer would like for all their employees to speak one language. But also if they are talking about something not job related i.e. what are you doing after work lets go grab a bite. then it does not affect their job or performance. Could be some folks are just a bit paranoid when they can't quite understand what these folks are talking about. Wonder how the immigrants feel when they sit alone and others talk with words they don't understand. I bet they are spurred to learn this language quicker. Too bad we aren't spurred likewise to help and learn theirs.
Bluerock, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this issue. It's not too bad that we "aren't spurred likewise to help and learn theirs". Frankly, my parents at least made sure we all spoke english before we moved to the US. Other Brazilians we know have also either worked to learn before they moved here, or learned as quickly as they could after moving here. I had no expectation that America would help me and learn my language, rather I had to learn to speak English and speak it well enough to be understood.
Post by: HankB on November 28, 2007, 07:58:22 AM
Mind you, they KNEW enough English to get by on the job, they just wanted special treatment.
So when they stated jabbering at me in Spanish . . . I replied in Lithuanian.
When that didn't work, I tried Russian and then German.
When the other workers saw this, it was like a light going off . . . and suddenly the Spanish speakers found themselves addressed in Polish, Hindi, Norwegian, Swedish, Welsh, and some languages I didn't recognize.
They were not amused . . . but IMHO the best way to deal with these "Spanish in the Workplace" advocates is to encourage everyone else who speaks another language (besides Spanish!) to address them in that language, rather than English.
Post by: Gewehr98 on November 28, 2007, 09:34:21 AM
Post by: K Frame on November 28, 2007, 09:45:21 AM
What, you all got really dim all of a sudden?
Post by: HankB on November 28, 2007, 10:19:52 AM
"it was like a light going off"
What, you all got really dim all of a sudden?
No, I'm showing my age . . . remember FLASHBULBS? And MAGICUBES?
What, you all got really dim all of a sudden?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on November 28, 2007, 10:30:41 AM
3rd generation? where? by 3rd they go to us schools and don't try? what area do you encounter this?
Post by: Tallpine on November 29, 2007, 07:32:33 AM
"Gabh mo leisgul, chan eil mi gad tuigsinn."