"Night time Seat Belt Enforcement" = BS

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Just got pulled over for a night time seat belt enforcement, or what ever excuse the idiot popo are using this week to fish.  Here is the conversation.

I pull over, turn on interior lights, put truck on park, roll window down

Officer:  How are you tonight?  Were you wearing your seat belt when you pulled out of XYZ street?

Me:  Yes

Officer:  Well we are doing "night time seat belt enforcement (BS excuse for fishing).  But the reason I pulled you over is that your license plate light is out.  Were you aware of that?

Me:  It is.  I dont think so, can we look?

Officer walks to the back of my truck, has a look on his face like a monkey doing a math problem.  License plate light is on, burning nice and bright. 

Officer:  Hmm, turn your dome light out, might be a short.

I comply.  License plate light is still on.  I suggest, following the "it might be a short" theory, maybe my foot on the brake at the stop light, then taking off to turn might have pulled juice.  Officer tells me to put it in drive and hold break down, I comply.  License plate light is still on. 

Officer:  When I was behind you at the light, your license plate light was not on (BS).  <mind you that my truck sets up high enough that you can see the license plate even if you are riding my ass>

Officer:  Well, were doing "night time seat belt enforcement", so I not going to write you a ticket.  (although he takes my license, CCW and ins to the cruiser and makes some notes) 

Officer:  Have a nice night.

Me:  Stay safe.


WTF?  Why does this *expletive deleted*it continue?  This cop had NO reason to take 15 minutes out of my life to pull his little fishing/revenue generating stop.  Folks, this is yet another reason for a rift between citizens and badge wearing citizens. 

End of rant

[Perd Hapley]

has a look on his face like a monkey doing a math problem. 

Heh.    That would describe me quite frequently.

[Mabs2]

I don't even bother with math.
I took the pre-ASVAB thing on the Army website the other day, when it got to the math parts I tricked my sisters into thinking they would help them with their math test next week.
Aw yeah.

[AZRedhawk44]

Officer:  Well, were doing "night time seat belt enforcement", so I not going to write you a ticket. 

How gracious of him.

[taurusowner]

Bad stop and he knew it.  He should have waited til you actually committed a traffic violation if he wanted to see what was up.  If making up BS stops with no actual grounds is his way of doing things, it won't be long before he gets called on it.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

If making up BS stops with no actual grounds is his way of doing things, it won't be long before he gets called on it.

I doubt it.  If cops actually put the thought and effort in doing their actual jobs, as they do getting around the constitution, crime would go down.  I consider a cop who does not follow the law to have less worth to society than criminal with a long rap sheet.

[Matthew Carberry]

Dash cam would have settled the matter if he had pressed.

"Gee officer, let's review the tape".

[Ryan in Maine]

Requiring your license plate to be lit up by little light bulbs is BS too. Especially considering they're stamped from reflective sheeting.

[taurusowner]

The reflective plate is for the reflection of the plate light, not headlights.  What if police are doing a stake out or sitting with their lights off?  They should still be able to see license plates.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

This really chaps my ass. A traffic stop is a seizure, an arrest. I was detained. No legal reason for it. For 15 minutes I was not free to leave. It's not that I got stopped. It's that I got stopped with no PC or RS. Not even "suspect truck fits your truck". This ass pulled me over, ran my *expletive deleted*it and did not have a legal leg to stand on as to why he initiated the stop.

I'll stop for now. I don't want to go on rant mode again.

[Ryan in Maine]

I've had the "registration light's out" excuse used on me three times for being stopped. I wasn't doing anything wrong in any of the stops. Just, you know, had a registration light out.

Which, you know, led to a game of 20 Questions one time. Even a game of I Spy With My Little Eye another time. The other time was an uneventful walk-around to check every currently in-use light on my car by two officers. One of those three events might fall under a fishing expedition. What do you think? And apparently, they'll use the plate light stop even if your plate light isn't out.

I don't think having a light illuminating your rear license plate visibly from a distance of 50 feet is necessary to police work. Not even during a stake out or while they're sitting with their lights off.

If a police officer is not in a position to identify a suspect within 50 feet without a plate light, they're doing something else wrong. And if a police officer knows a suspect is breaking a law, then what value does the plate light provide them within that 50 feet?

I'm against the whole idea of requiring your license plate to be illuminated. I can see it being potentially useful for police officers in certain niche scenarios, but that isn't going to get me to agree with the statute.

[taurusowner]

This really chaps my ass. A traffic stop is a seizure, an arrest. I was detained. No legal reason for it. For 15 minutes I was not free to leave. It's not that I got stopped. It's that I got stopped with no PC or RS. Not even "suspect truck fits your truck". This ass pulled me over, ran my *expletive deleted* and did not have a legal leg to stand on as to why he initiated the stop.

I'll stop for now. I don't want to go on rant mode again.

A traffic stop is not an arrest.

[taurusowner]

I don't think having a light illuminating your rear license plate visibly from a distance of 50 feet is necessary to police work. Not even during a stake out or while they're sitting with their lights off.

If a police officer is not in a position to identify a suspect within 50 feet without a plate light, they're doing something else wrong. And if a police officer knows a suspect is breaking a law, then what value does the plate light provide them within that 50 feet?

I'm against the whole idea of requiring your license plate to be illuminated. I can see it being potentially useful for police officers in certain niche scenarios, but that isn't going to get me to agree with the statute.

Wrong.  When the officer is recording the LPs of cars leaving a drug house using binoculars from 50+ yards away, having the LP be illuminated is key.  You can disagree with whether it should be law all you want, but saying that an illuminated plate doesn't make certain things much easier or even just possible is plain incorrect.

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting your 50 feet number?

[dogmush]

A traffic stop is not an arrest.

This is true, legaly.

...But you sure can't leave one early.

[taurusowner]

Well in a nation of laws and speaking about the legal system, how else are we supposed to judge an even besides legally?  Zardoz feels wronged.  So we then use emotions to judge the merits of an event?

[Ron]

This is a just another symptom of the "nanny state".

We have asked our police officers to also be agents for revenue enhancement for the local and state government.

States and villages that aren't in debt and/or have good revenue streams don't have any reason to make their police officers go out and alienate the citizenry with strong arm tactics.   

[Jamisjockey]

This is true, legaly.

...But you sure can't leave one early.

QFT.  Tell a cop you're done and you're leaving the illegal detention and see what he says.  Odds you get tasered and cuffed.

[Dannyboy]

QFT.  Tell a cop you're done and you're leaving the illegal detention and see what he says.  Odds you get tasered and cuffed.

Yeah...if you're lucky.

[Balog]

This is a just another symptom of the "nanny state".

We have asked our police officers to also be agents for revenue enhancement for the local and state government.

States and villages that aren't in debt and/or have good revenue streams don't have any reason to make their police officers go out and alienate the citizenry with strong arm tactics.   

Ayup. Tying "cops finding criminal activity" with "cops generating revenue for the .gov" was a really, really bad idea.

[freakazoid]

Is there anything you can do in a situation like that?

[roo_ster]

Is there anything you can do in a situation like that?

Nothing much right then & there unless you wanna ride to the pokey.

Perhaps a digital recoding of the event, including video and clear shots of both Officer Fisherman and his patrol car posted to the web and an email with links sent to the local LEOs, the DA, and the mayor/policritter.

[MillCreek]

What is interesting is that I am 50 years old, and the last time I had a traffic stop was decades ago.  I think I was in my 20's.  Could it be that bald, middle-aged white males are not cop magnets?  

[Balog]

What is interesting is that I am 50 years old, and the last time I had a traffic stop was decades ago.  I think I was in my 20's.  Could it be that bald, middle-aged white males are not cop magnets?  

Pretty much, yeah. Of course they also tend to do less to attract the attention in the first place, but when Officer Friendly decides he needs to up his chance at promotion by generating some more revenue on BS tickets he tends to goto the young males. Better statistical chance the fishing expedition will work, lower chance the guy is a lawyer or rich enough to hire a good one etc.

[dogmush]

Nothing much right then & there unless you wanna ride to the pokey.

Perhaps a digital recoding of the event, including video and clear shots of both Officer Fisherman and his patrol car posted to the web and an email with links sent to the local LEOs, the DA, and the mayor/policritter.

Unless they decide to hit you with a wiretapping charge for recording them.

[makattak]

Unless they decide to hit you with a wiretapping charge for recording them.

Virginia's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. Virginia makes it a crime to intercept or record any "wire, oral, or electronic communication" unless one party to the conversation consents. Virginia Code § 19.2-62. Therefore, if you operate in Virginia, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation or you get permission from one party to the conversation in advance. That said, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties.

Won't happen here.