"Night time Seat Belt Enforcement" = BS

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

yea the construction worker freebie is one a lotta folks don't know about. cops will generally try to work with another poor slob going to work. theirs is a bluecollar job in most respects. joseph wambaugh mentioned it.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

You said earlier you were detained for 15 minutes; how do you know you were not free to leave?  Did you ask?

well. The cop had my dl,ccw and ins in his pocket during the encounter and him trying to find a reason why he pulled me over once I called him on the lp light. So no. I didn't feel free to leave.

[MechAg94]

Last, I really must question the intelligence, imagination, & motivation of the LEO int OP.  There are so many infractions he can draw on as a "legitimate" reason to pull someone over.  Musta rode the short bus to school.

This is what I was thinking (sort of).  Down here, I see cops trolling for tickets all the time, but Every single one of them knows exactly where to go to catch the most people if they need to.  Around my home town, I can think of at least a couple areas.  One is a 20 MPH school zone.  You have to really lay on the breaks to get down to 20 and often they will go ahead and write tickets at 21 or 25.  That spot is near where I get a haircut and the lady said the cops there will be pulling people over nearly continuously.  The highways around here are easy pickings also.

I pass cops at 10 or less MPH over the speed limit all the time.  There are ALWAYS people going faster and the officer usually doesn't have to wait very long. 

[roo_ster]

...it is only natural for even the most rational mind to view any given police officer as a potential enemy...

...To stay safe I have to plan for the worse, and do everything I can to avoid any interaction at all.

Pretty much this.

I do my darnedest to avoid interaction with LEOs, as there is no upside.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Kind of hard to avoid contact with an LEO when then pull a reason out of their arse to pull you over. That's point of this. He had NO legal reason to detain me.

[Ron]

The politicians and bureaucrats are the ones pulling the strings guys, the police are just following orders.

The legislation and regulations impacting nearly every minutia of our lives is such that we can be fined, ticketed, questioned, detained or basically CONTROLLED by the authorities at any time they desire. This is by design.

Our rulers currently are benevolent and our chains rest lightly upon us. The framework for tyranny is already functioning and like the proverbial frog in a pot we haven't sensed the rising temperature.

If you don't like the laws the police are charged with enforcing then put legislators and bureaucrats in charge that agree with your positions.   





 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

the police are just following orders.

Bull *expletive deleted*it.  Thats beneath you.  Its an excuse.  Bull *expletive deleted*it

[Balog]

1. Simmer down monkeyboy.

2. You're missing his point. He's not excusing bad behaviour on the cops part, merely pointing out that hating on cops won't change anything. If you don't like the end results of laws, the people who pass them are as/more culpable than the ones who enforce them.


Look, obviously you hate all cops, full stop. W/e, some people are irrational like that. But try not to let that vitriol spill over onto our nice little forum, ok?

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Look, obviously you hate all cops, full stop. W/e, some people are irrational like that. But try not to let that vitriol spill over onto our nice little forum, ok

You settle down Balogboy.  I am not anti cop, and I do not hate all cops.  As we sit here, I am with the chief detective of the local PD, been friends with him for over 10 years.  He finds what happened to me to be a stain on good LEOs.  But this following orders BS, is BS. 

[Ryan in Maine]

Wrong.  When the officer is recording the LPs of cars leaving a drug house using binoculars from 50+ yards away, having the LP be illuminated is key.  You can disagree with whether it should be law all you want, but saying that an illuminated plate doesn't make certain things much easier or even just possible is plain incorrect.

Just out of curiosity, where are you getting your 50 feet number?

I'm not wrong because you decided I'm wrong. When a police officer is recording license plates of cars leaving a drug house with binoculars from 50+ yards away, he can see the plate number without it being illuminated by a plate light. You can try this yourself if you require proof. Grab your binoculars, sit 50+ yards away from an area with consistent traffic, and scope out some license plates. You'll see them.

All road-legal vehicles aren't required to have their plate illuminated anyways. That in itself puts some molasses on the necessity of a plate light.

I also didn't say it doesn't make certain things easier or possible. I disagree with your particular examples of it being necessary, but I do see it serving in niche situations. 9 times out of 10 it's completely unnecessary, in my opinion. It's just not justified. And I imagine it's used in traffic stops as much as it's used for any purpose you deem worthy.

Being pulled over for having a plate light out is kind of saying "Hey, man. Can you fix that in case we ever have to investigate you? Thanks." by your description of its usefulness.

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/29-A/title29-Asec1909.html

A vehicle must have a white light capable of illuminating the rear registration plate so that the characters on the plate are visible for a distance of at least 50 feet. This section does not apply to unregistered farm tractors.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

 

Ryan, would you agree that reflective license plates are only visible at night when there's some light for them to reflect?

And would you agree that there can be instances when there are no other light sources around except what the car itself provides?

[Ron]

Bull *expletive deleted*.  Thats beneath you.  Its an excuse.  Bull *expletive deleted*

The speed limit on Everytown St is 30 mph.

For 50 weeks of the year the residents of the area drive down the road at the perfectly safe speed of 40 mph, day in and day out.

Officer friendly finds out that his gig for two weeks is to hide in the bushes along Everytown St and catch as many folks as he can in the act of breaking the law.

Would you have him argue with his superiors about this? Should he refuse to enforce the law on this stretch of road because it is an odious law designed to bring in revenue?

Cops have supervisors and superiors dictating what gets done.

The problem isn't really the guys writing the tickets. I'm sure the vast majority of cops would prefer to be doing something that makes a more lasting impact on society than enforcing traffic laws, esp traffic laws designed to make it easy to collect revenue. 

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I was not speeding.  My LP light was working, and in fact working just fine per the Dodge dealership today.  The reason given to me at the time of the stop, Night time seat belt enforcement, and no LP light.  What gives?  What is not understood?  I was wrongfully pulled over for no legal reason or the cop is blind as a bat and needs to get glasses or put his badge down. 

Dont paint me as anti cop just because I dare to tell the truth about the encounter.  You have no magic mushroom with me just because you carry a badge.  No special exemptions.  I expect you to obey the law just as I do.

[thebaldguy]

You could file a formal complaint or ask to speak with the chief about this issue.

I have been stopped twice in the last 22 years. One was for driving without headlights downtown (I had just pulled out of a lit ramp onto a lit street and I forgot) and the other was for rolling through a stop sign (I thought I had come to a complete stop as I saw the police car when I stopped). Both times they were polite and let me go with no ticket. The "rolling stop" stop was almost funny.

Police: Do you know why we stopped you?
Me: No.
Police: You rolled through that stop sign.
Me: (smiling) I'm pretty sure I stopped. I saw your marked cruiser there and made sure I stopped.
Police: (smiling) We don't think you came to a complete stop. You slowed down, but did not come to a complete stop. You almost stopped.
Me: (smiling) Ok. I hand over my license/registration/proof of insurance and wait a few minutes.

Police: (smiling) You have a good driving record. Let's keep it that way.

He handed my info back and told me to go. I thanked him and left.

I was not confrontational at all; I cooperated as that's all I could do. Had I gotten a ticket, it would have been my word against TWO officers in that car. I would have lost in court even though I knew I came to a complete stop because I saw the cop car right there parked watching the intersection. If I would have complained, I'm not sure what good would have come out of this. I didn't get a ticket, and they could say they were cutting me some slack that night. I let this one go.

I make sure I come to a complete stop.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

All road-legal vehicles aren't required to have their plate illuminated anyways

where is this the law?

[kgbsquirrel]

All road-legal vehicles aren't required to have their plate illuminated anyways

where is this the law?

And in some instances the vehicle isn't required to have a displayed plate at all. I own an old army truck that is registered as a collectors vehicle (which by the by I'm also slowly restoring to original config). By the local law "in order to maintain the original appearance of the vehicle" I'm only required to hang the tagged plate from the dash inside the vehicle. Kind of nullifies the whole plate light issue right there.

[Balog]

You settle down Balogboy.  I am not anti cop, and I do not hate all cops.  As we sit here, I am with the chief detective of the local PD, been friends with him for over 10 years.  He finds what happened to me to be a stain on good LEOs.  But this following orders BS, is BS. 

I think anyone reading... well, pretty much all of the posts you've made having anything vaguely to do with cops would disagree. And I'd still recommend you look into A. calming down and B. not insulting and antagonizing your fellow APSers. Just a helpful hint.

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I have not insulted anyone, nor have I antagonized.  I have labeled the cop as he should be labled.  Anyone who would take up for him, or make excuses, feel insulted, probably think its ok to pull someone over for no reason. 

If it stings to hear it, there must be a reason for that sting.  Either you agree with what the officer did, or your pissed that I brought a light on a specific practice that most of us find wrong.

I think anyone reading... well, pretty much all of the posts you've made having anything vaguely to do with cops would disagree

Then you and anyone should go back and re read, with a heavy dose of "context".  Do I disagree with dirtbag cops who play fast and loose with the rules, and those who make excuses and take up for them.  Hell yes.  The converse is true that I applaud cops who do their jobs the correct way, by obeying the rules set forth.  Context is everything.  Just a helpful hint.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Balog could never be characterized as a "thin blue line" guy.  and he  speaks very true

[Balog]

You're right, I can't imagine how anyone could construe your posts as either anti-cop or combative. What was I thinking? Undoubtedly I was only enraged that you dared question our perfect overlords, the police. I just think those brave souls can do no wrong, you know?



FTR, if it went down as you describe the cop is either an idiot or doing wrong. I'd report him for it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if it went down as you describe the cop is either an idiot or doing wrong. I'd report him for it.

or quit commenting negatively in a high shrill tone

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I am calm.  I just call it the way I see it.  The Nurermberg Defense does not wash with me.  Just following orders.  Thats BS.

Here is a hint as to why pulling over a vehicle, without any cause is a bad thing.  Courts have said that a traffic stop is a seizure.  Period.  You must have a reason to make a stop.  The cop in my case clearly did not.  Hes blind at best, a liar at worst.  Anyway, if you pull some reason out of your arse to pull a car over, and you find drugs, you have just tainted the evidence chain.  And you have given a good lawyer a pretty good shot at getting such a find suppressed at trial.  Thats a good hint.

When I wore a badge, I approached every interaction with the non badge wearing citizens with that in mind.  Not seeing "possible" criminals, but justifing why I did what I did so if anything went to court, I and the DA, were on solid ground.  I guess that does not matter to some.  

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

I'd report him for it

Already in the works.  Not that I expect much will be done.  From my research on this Seat Belt enforcement at night, this is a nation wide thing of fast and loose with reasons to stop.  Kind of like being chased down because you turn to avoid a checkpoint just because you dont want to be bothered.

And there is no shrill tone.  If you dont like what I say, or my point of view, please feel free to ignore me.  No one is putting a gun to your head to respond.

[Balog]

Feel free to post where someone has defended the way the cop acted. Go ahead, use that quote function. I'll wait...

And I mean actually defended them, not merely said something that you could mis-interpret then rant on. In a calm and measured tone, of course...

[Parker Dean]

Just got pulled over for a night time seat belt enforcement, or what ever excuse the idiot popo are using this week to fish.  Here is the conversation.

I pull over, turn on interior lights, put truck on park, roll window down

Officer:  How are you tonight?  Were you wearing your seat belt when you pulled out of XYZ street?

Me:  Yes

Officer:  Well we are doing "night time seat belt enforcement (BS excuse for fishing).  But the reason I pulled you over is that your license plate light is out.  Were you aware of that?

Me:  It is.  I dont think so, can we look?

Officer walks to the back of my truck, has a look on his face like a monkey doing a math problem.  License plate light is on, burning nice and bright. 

Officer:  Hmm, turn your dome light out, might be a short.

I comply.  License plate light is still on.  I suggest, following the "it might be a short" theory, maybe my foot on the brake at the stop light, then taking off to turn might have pulled juice.  Officer tells me to put it in drive and hold break down, I comply.  License plate light is still on. 

Officer:  When I was behind you at the light, your license plate light was not on (BS).  <mind you that my truck sets up high enough that you can see the license plate even if you are riding my ass>

Officer:  Well, were doing "night time seat belt enforcement", so I not going to write you a ticket.  (although he takes my license, CCW and ins to the cruiser and makes some notes) 

Officer:  Have a nice night.

Me:  Stay safe.


WTF?  Why does this *expletive deleted* continue?  This cop had NO reason to take 15 minutes out of my life to pull his little fishing/revenue generating stop.  Folks, this is yet another reason for a rift between citizens and badge wearing citizens. 

End of rant

Used to get this crap all the time traveling 70-80,000 miles a year in deep South Texas. Particularly when I'd switch to a "new" car. At first I was really irritated like you and later came to accept it. Even being somewhat amused at some of them acting a bit embarrassed to have pulled over a middle aged white guy instead of the younger, dare I say it, Hispanic they thought they had. I actually laughed when ones face fell about two foot and he even said "oh" when he saw me clearly. They'd also take on a completely different posture and tone when they saw I was an old white guy.

Now I'm in Indiana and I've only been pulled over for a fishing expedition once. This Trooper was young and practically hyper and was at my door almost before I got it in Park. First words out of his mouth was that he wasn't going to write me a ticket so I knew what was up from the beginning. A quick papers check and I was on my way with a cheery "Have a Good Evening". My take is that he had seen me pass by frequently and decided to verify that I should be in the area.

I have complained on the intertubes but all that does is get people asking why you were there at all, saying you must have done something wrong,  if you're not doing anything wrong what are you worried about, and finally labeled a cop hater.