Author Topic: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat  (Read 8913 times)

Ben

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Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« on: May 16, 2010, 11:15:53 AM »
WorldNetDaily, so if anyone has a more mainstream link, please post. It appears to be authentic, but whether it is or not, it seems an interesting point for discussion:

Quote
"There is no 'deeply rooted' historical tradition of unfettered access to foods of all kinds," states the document signed by U.S. Attorney Stephanie Rose, assistant Martha Fagg and Roger Gural, trial attorney for the U.S. Department of Justice.

"Plaintiffs' assertion of a 'fundamental right to their own bodily and physical health, which includes what foods they do and do not choose to consume for themselves and their families' is similarly unavailing because plaintiffs do not have a fundamental right to obtain any food they wish," the government has argued.

On the one hand, we of the RKBA counter-argue with hoplophobes whenever they bring up "you need a license to drive" that driving is not in the constitution, but that the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental right.

The Fed attorneys almost seem to be using the same type of argument here about food. Yet when I read it, the freedom hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Can someone really tell me I don't have the right to eat a Twinkie, even if it's not in the constitution? If they ban commercial sale, would I be a criminal if I procured the ingredients myself and made them at home in my Twinkie lab?

Food is a basic necessity of life. I could live on gruel, but it wouldn't be much of a life.

-------------

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=153133
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Doggy Daddy

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2010, 11:50:58 AM »
I found a LOT of references with a quick Google search, but none that I would call "mainstream".
(search params: U.S. Attorney "Stephanie Rose" and "Martha Fagg" and "Roger Gural")
DD
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PTK

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2010, 11:54:56 AM »
From my cold, dead, spoon? :)


Anyway, that aside, the Founders were VERY much aware that everything one put into their body was their own damn business - drugs, drinks, food, etc. Why do things like that ever go away? =|
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Doggy Daddy

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2010, 11:59:37 AM »
Quote
Anyway, that aside, the Founders were VERY much aware that everything one put into their body was their own damn business - drugs, drinks, food, etc. Why do things like that ever go away?

I blame it on modern labor-saving devices.  A couple centuries ago, people spent more of their time surviving.  Nowadays, they have more time for busybody behaviour. 

DD
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PTK

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2010, 12:05:01 PM »
That's a good way of looking at things. :)
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Doggy Daddy

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 12:07:55 PM »
That's a good way of looking at things. :)

Thanky, sir.  Now about that  PS90 in King Sooper ...  :'(

DD  =D
Would you exchange
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PTK

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 12:23:05 PM »
Really does bring a tear to your eye. Used to go to a sushi bar there in Colorado, open carrying my 12ga side by side "pistol" on my left hip in a homemade bucket holster, and my silenced Browning Buckmark in a homemade holster on my right hip. Open carried.

The owner LOVED me doing that, he said I made it safer for everyone and that I was welcome at any time. He was very sad to see me leave Colorado, and gave me a great honor - as a South Korean, eating with another is extremely complimentary, and the last meal I had there, he sat with myself and my SO, ordered for us (for which his sushi chef went all-out) and ate. He never did allow me to pay that last bill. :)
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Doggy Daddy

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 12:31:04 PM »
I don't do sushi, but that's an impressive story.

Perhaps I could do something about all that sushi-eating going on.  I've got all this time on my hands and nothing to do...    ;/

DD
Would you exchange
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PTK

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2010, 12:36:49 PM »
:laugh:

Before I forget, I injured my ankles back in CO again and have walked with a cane since. When I came into the sushi bar with the cane for the first time, the owner saw me sitting down at the bar, walked right over, said hi to me very happily, saw the cane, asked if he could see it.

He grabs the handle and shaft, and starts pulling - "How you make knife come ouuuuu?!" :D :D :D :D

Marvin is quite a character, that's for certain.
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

Ben

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2010, 01:16:49 PM »
Nowadays, they have more time for busybody behaviour.  
DD

"People got to much time on their hands" <insert German accent> has always been one of my Dad's favorite sayings. He and my mom both grew up in war ravaged areas during WW2 so it's really hard for them to fathom how people can see stuff like this as important. They're more of a mind of, "they're complaining that people have food to eat?"

"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

alex_trebek

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2010, 01:33:25 PM »
For the sake of this post I am going to assume that this is true.

Now this is exactly the problem I was trying to allude to in the healthcare thread a while back.  Since a lot of people refuse to even consider healthcare a right (FTR I wasn't claiming that free healthcare was) because it wasn't explicitly listed, it leaves a huge freakin hole. There are a lot of things not explicitly listed in the BoR.

I think stuff like the right to choose your own food, breathe air, etc were so incredably obvious there was no need to address them. IMO the founding fathers probably figured that if the gov ever tried to tell people what to eat there would be larger systemic problems. They would be correct.

Therefore, I do believe that there are certain concepts not listed in the BoR that are fundamental rights.

Ben

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2010, 01:46:17 PM »
IMO the founding fathers probably figured that if the gov ever tried to tell people what to eat there would be larger systemic problems. They would be correct.

QFT.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2010, 01:59:33 PM »
Those arguments are so frothing-at-the-mouth hilarious, I desperately want them to be true.
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Tallpine

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2010, 04:02:26 PM »
When Twinkies are outlawed, only outlaws will have Twinkies.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

lupinus

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2010, 04:09:34 PM »
You can take our lives, but you'll never take our TWINKIES!!!!!!!!!!
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Doggy Daddy

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2010, 04:25:19 PM »


DD
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Boomhauer

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2010, 09:38:19 PM »
The Good Humor man gets it if I can't have my ice cream bar!

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Fly320s

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2010, 10:10:51 PM »

Now this is exactly the problem I was trying to allude to in the healthcare thread a while back.  Since a lot of people refuse to even consider healthcare a right (FTR I wasn't claiming that free healthcare was) because it wasn't explicitly listed, it leaves a huge freakin hole.
Healthcare can not be a right, because it requires one person to work for another. For me to have a right to healthcare, I must have someone provide it to me under all conditions. But what if every doctor in the country quit practicing medicine?  I have had my right violated, but who do I sue?

No "right" can ever require one man to serve another.

end or thread veer. For now.  :angel:
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2010, 10:15:07 PM »
new business for me  blackmarket chef!  i'd have fun with that
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

makattak

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2010, 11:00:03 PM »
Healthcare can not be a right, because it requires one person to work for another. For me to have a right to healthcare, I must have someone provide it to me under all conditions. But what if every doctor in the country quit practicing medicine?  I have had my right violated, but who do I sue?

No "right" can ever require one man to serve another.

end or thread veer. For now.  :angel:

Thanks. I don't have to say that now.

Healthcare isn't a right not because it isn't listed. It isn't a right because someone else has to provide it.

I don't have a right to eat, because that implies someone else has to provide food. I do have a right to earn my food and choose whatever I want to eat without government interference, though. Kinda like healthcare.
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2010, 11:43:12 PM »
I grow a large percentage of my own. My garden is just under 1/4 acre and growing.
I'm considering adding meat rabbits and goats to the mini-farm.
I've raised pigs but they can be a pain in the butt.
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alex_trebek

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2010, 12:09:41 AM »
Quote
I don't have a right to eat, because that implies someone else has to provide food. I do have a right to earn my food and choose whatever I want to eat without government interference, though. Kinda like healthcare.

Which was my point. Now since access to these markets is not explicitly written anywhere (that I am aware of) as a right, what is the basis of this claim? Keep in mind I am not disagreeing, but this argument is more emotional than factual.

Does this mean that this view point is any more valid than an opposing one? We could split hairs discussing how the interstate commerce clause is interpreted, that interpretations deviation from the original meaning, but I am going to assume the modern interpretation is the one that applies.

This means that the gov indeed does have the right to regulate the food industry (which it has extensively for a century). Now where does the state's right end? It would appear that it doesn't, since no particular food is considered a protected right. Even if the constitution were interpreted to mean that the fed does not have the right to ban twinkies, the individual states could since twinkies are not a protected right.

This is why I have always claimed that people have rights not explicitly listed. It simply wasn't necessary 220ish years ago, since no one would have dreamed that this level of micromanaging was even possible, let alone probable.

This also means that, if my claim is correct, exactly which rights a person has, and how far they go, is a legitimate debate. Unfortunately it is generally an emotional one, so very little is ever accomplished. 

Perd Hapley

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2010, 12:19:15 AM »
alex,

Were you unaware that your concerns were brought up during the debate over whether to adopt the constitution?  One argument against a written Bill of Rights (which the const. did not originally have), was that any rights not listed would be denied.

As I think someone has already mentioned, by the time we're discussing the validity of a right to eat what you want, a written bill of rights is not really the problem anymore.  =(
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2010, 12:26:50 AM »
No "right" can ever require one man to serve another.

Jury trial?

Perd Hapley

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Re: Feds Tell Court They Can Decide What You Eat
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2010, 12:44:31 AM »
1. The jury trial is service to society as a whole.  It is not the same as being required to serve another individuals basic needs.  See number 2, below.

2. Unlike food, or medical care, no one requires a jury trial as a matter of basic human existence. A jury trial is required when the state charges a (presumably innocent) person with a crime.  If the state is going to put you on trial, they better durn well protect your rights while doing so. 

Point two also applies to public defenders, anyone working for the prison system, etc.
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