Return (child) to Sender

[sanglant]

BTW -- Russia has a very high incidence of fetal alcohol syndrome. A high percentage of the kids in Russian orphanages really are damaged goods. But most (if not all) reputable adoption agencies here in the U.S. do their best to ensure that prospective adoptive parents understand that before commencing the process. This mommie dearest either wasn't paying attention in class, or chose not to believe what she was told. The kid may very well have serious psychological issues and I don't dispute that.

But she adopted him. He IS her problem now.

i thought this was the grandmother, if so she probably wasn't even involved.

The boy, Artem Saveliev, was put on a plane by his adopted grandmother, Nancy Hansen of Shelbyville.

[Hawkmoon]

Hawkmoon, thanks for the explanation on international adoption.  This is an area I knew nothing about, and now I know more about it.

However much you know or think you know, it isn't enough. We began the process three years ago, and it seems that at least every week we find yet another "GOTCHA!" behind the curtains. The latest was that I was in the process of having translated documents to be submitted to the consulate of the child's native country for authentication by the consulate before being submitted to the adoption authority in the native country. My wife was there. She e-mailed me to tell me to stop the translator, because the translation could only be done by the consulate.

Fast forward to a week ago. I made the trek to the consulate, laid out the stack of documents on the official's desk ... and he told me he could not accept them because I did not have certified translations. According to the consular official, whoever told my wife the consulate does the translations was flat-out wrong.

That, however, is a requirement of one particular country (not Russia). But I believe most countries have fairly similar procedural requirements.

I do know that my wife and I were required to take a lengthy series of classes dealing with potential issues that might be encountered in adopting a child from another country. Psychological problems (and the high degree of probability they might be encountered) was part of the curriculum.

[mellestad]

However much you know or think you know, it isn't enough. We began the process three years ago, and it seems that at least every week we find yet another "GOTCHA!" behind the curtains. The latest was that I was in the process of having translated documents to be submitted to the consulate of the child's native country for authentication by the consulate before being submitted to the adoption authority in the native country. My wife was there. She e-mailed me to tell me to stop the translator, because the translation could only be done by the consulate.

Fast forward to a week ago. I made the trek to the consulate, laid out the stack of documents on the official's desk ... and he told me he could not accept them because I did not have certified translations. According to the consular official, whoever told my wife the consulate does the translations was flat-out wrong.

That, however, is a requirement of one particular country (not Russia). But I believe most countries have fairly similar procedural requirements.

I do know that my wife and I were required to take a lengthy series of classes dealing with potential issues that might be encountered in adopting a child from another country. Psychological problems (and the high degree of probability they might be encountered) was part of the curriculum.

Are you going through an agency, or doing it yourself?

[Hawkmoon]

Update:

http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7405&eeid=7238789&_sitecat=1505&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt

Russia suspends all adoptions to US families

Published: 4/15/10, 8:05 PM EDT
By NATALIYA VASILYEVA

MOSCOW (AP) - A Foreign Ministry spokesman said Thursday that adoptions of Russian children by U.S. families had been suspended, although other Russian and U.S. officials disputed this.

Spokesman Andrei Nesterenko said during a briefing that new adoptions by Americans are on hold pending a visit in the next few days by a U.S. delegation to reach an accord on future placement of Russian children.

The U.S. hopes to resolve a bitter dispute that broke out last week, when an American woman sent her 7-year-old adopted son back to Russia on a plane by himself.

"Further adoptions of Russian children by American citizens which are currently suspended will be possible only if such a deal is reached," Nesterenko said in a televised briefing.

"Russia believes that only an agreement that contains effective tools for Russian and U.S. officials to monitor the living conditions of adopted Russian children will ensure that recent tragedies in the United States will not be repeated," he said.

But the Russia Education and Science Ministry, which oversees international adoptions, said it had no knowledge of an official freeze. A spokeswoman for the Kremlin's children's rights ombudsman said that organization also knew nothing of a suspension.

And in Washington, the U.S. State Department said the administration had gotten conflicting information when it sought clarification from Russian officials about the status of adoptions. Spokesman P.J. Crowley said the U.S. was continuing to seek clarification. "Right now, to be honest, we've received conflicting information," he said.

The boy's return - with little supervision or explanation, aside from a note he carried from his adoptive mother saying he had psychological problems - outraged Russian authorities and the public.

Russia has a large population of abused and neglected children, many of them the children of alcoholics. Many of these children wind up living in large institutions, because adoption by Russian families is still relatively uncommon.

But as Russia has prospered over the past decade, the fate of these children, especially of those sent abroad, has increasingly been the focus of concern.

Russian lawmakers for years have suggested suspending foreign adoptions, citing a few high-publicized cases of abuse and killings of Russian children adopted by U.S. families.

The Tennessee woman who sent back her adopted Russian son last Thursday claimed she had been misled by his Russian orphanage about his condition.

Russians were outraged that no charges were filed against her in the United States.

"How can we prosecute a person who abused the rights of a Russian child abroad?" the children's rights ombudsman, Pavel Astakhov, said in a televised interview Wednesday. "If there was an adoption treaty in place, we would have legal means to protect Russian children abroad.

Some 3,000 U.S. applications for adopting Russian children are now pending, according to the Joint Council on International Children's Services, which represents many U.S. agencies engaged in international adoption.

But the numbers have declined sharply in recent years - with only 1,586 U.S. adoptions from Russia last year, compared with more than 5,800 in 2004.

The decline is due in part to concerns by U.S. parents about reports of fetal alcohol syndrome and other problems faced by some Russian children.

Thousands of American adoption advocates had hoped this week to petition Russian and U.S. leaders to prevent the halt in adoptions announced Thursday. Poignant pleas from would-be adoptive parents were included in an online petition, signed by more than 11,000 people and addressed to President Barack Obama and his Russian counterpart Dmitry Medvedev, the council said.

U.S. officials appeared willing to consider Russia's demand for a formal bilateral adoption pact, after years of resisting such entreaties while arguing that an international accord called the Hague Convention would be sufficient once Russia ratified it.

"We're willing to talk about some sort of bilateral understanding where we would ensure that these kinds of things could not happen," the U.S. ambassador to Russia, John Beyrle, told CBS television this week.

Crowley said that the group of U.S. officials from the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security will be traveling to Moscow this weekend for meetings early next week with Russian officials to clarify the situation.

"We're really going to Moscow next week to address what are serious and legitimate concerns about our processes regarding adoptions between Russia and the United States," he said. "We certainly think that there are many thousands of Russian children who are not adopted by Russian families; we have the same objective as Russia has: to find loving, safe and permanent homes, some of which would be here in the United States."

This article fails to mention two things:

First: Russia complains about the lack of a treaty. However, there is in place an international Hague Convention covering international adoptions. The United States signed it in 1994 and (finally) ratified it in 2007. Russia has apparently signed it but NOT ratified it. So if they want a treaty -- there's one all ready and waiting, all they have to do is make it official.

Second: According to an adoption social worker in our local office of Catholic Charities (which is an accredited international adoption agency), what Russia is demanding is the right to prosecute any American accused of mistreating an adopted (former) Russian child under Russian law, in Russia. My social worker acknowledged that the Russians are very anxious to dump their orphans abroad, because adoption within Russia is very unusual, so the Russian adoption agencies typically lie and cover up both psychological and physical problems in kids available for adoption. So in essence Russia wants to be able to dump their problems in our laps, but have the right to prosecute Americans if they (the Russians who mistreated the kids and created the problems in the first place) don't like how the new parents dealt with the (undisclosed) problems.

I hope that's going to be a non-starter, but with a bunch of bleeding heart liberals in control of our government, who knows how much sovereignty they'll be willing to give away?

[GigaBuist]

What I don't get is why the adoptive mother didn't just toss the kid into a tanning bed a few times and then ship the kid over to Angelina Jolie.  Seems like it'd have been cheaper.

[kgbsquirrel]

What I don't get is why the adoptive mother didn't just toss the kid into a tanning bed a few times and then ship the kid over to Angelina Jolie.  Seems like it'd have been cheaper.

Angelina Jolie is at her tag limit?

[Harold Tuttle]

My olde neighbors down the block adopted a kid from Russia

I'm pretty sure he has fetal alcohol syndrome

[BlueStarLizzard]

very good friend of my bosses has an adopted son from russia. he's a good kid. he has had some issues with speech (palate thing, not mental things) and was held back (he was very young when adopted but old enough to have to go back and start from skratch) due to language. the only other concern is she gets talks from doctors and such about him being a very big boy. he's not fat, but its pretty clear he's gonna be a very BIG blond russian one day. 

i was under the impression that the agencys involved are pretty clear that the older the child, the more difficult its going to be in adapting them to american life after being at the bottem of the barrel in russia for so long.

i think this women needs to get hit hard with some charges (don't know what applies, but something) for being worlds worst parent. poor kid, but maybe the press surronding him will end him up in a really AWESOME home.

[sanglant]

a giant BP(for, bad parent) tattooed on her forehead?

[kgbsquirrel]

Oh, speaking of orphanages. This thread just reminded me of This.

[Fly320s]

These people should buy adopt Americans! 

Seriously, why do people look to foreign countries to adopt chidren?  Is the US in short supply?

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

These people should buy adopt Americans! 

Seriously, why do people look to foreign countries to adopt chidren?  Is the US in short supply?

She was a single parent. Pretty sure there are rules/laws about who can adopt in the US. Single people probably have a much harder time.

[BlueStarLizzard]

These people should buy adopt Americans! 

Seriously, why do people look to foreign countries to adopt chidren?  Is the US in short supply?

the adoption process is insane, apperently.

plus most people want babies... and i wouldn't be suprised if there were more eager adopters then babies...

[MicroBalrog]

Amusingly a lot of the Russian news-sites I read are siding with the mother in this.

[RevDisk]

Amusingly a lot of the Russian news-sites I read are siding with the mother in this.

Could you give us a summary of the Russian news thoughts on the matter?


Call me funny, but wouldn't you want a thorough med check and diagnostics on any kid you intend to adopt?  Yes, it'd make adoption harder for the problem children, which I am guessing Russia wants to offload, but it would seem fairly normal to ask for that.

[Hawkmoon]

It didn't occur to me to check Pravda, but ... thar she blows: http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/09-04-2010/112949-russian_boy-0

It says there's discussion in the forums, but I couldn't find any discussion on this topic.

[AJ Dual]

i was under the impression that the agencys involved are pretty clear that the older the child, the more difficult its going to be in adapting them to american life after being at the bottem of the barrel in russia for so long.

Call me funny, but wouldn't you want a thorough med check and diagnostics on any kid you intend to adopt?  Yes, it'd make adoption harder for the problem children, which I am guessing Russia wants to offload, but it would seem fairly normal to ask for that.

The problem is that the Russian orphanages will pull a bait-n-switch on Americans looking to adopt. They'll promise infants, or at least toddlers, and then "Surprise!" only the psychopathic seven year olds and older with detachment disorder, FAS, and God knows what else, are available when the prospective parents arrive. They know the parents are at their most vulnerable, and will guilt them into taking an older child home.

Amusingly a lot of the Russian news-sites I read are siding with the mother in this.

I'm not surprised, if they're honest, they know just how deeply damaged the children in their orphanages can be, and how unethical the people on their side of the adoptions are sometimes.

For the time being, it is hard to say what happened to Artyom in the United States. It is hard to understand the reason why the foster parents decided that the boy did not fit their family. The orphanage, from where he was adopted, described him as a very attentive, responsive, peaceful and even vulnerable child.

Elsewhere on the net, someone was claiming they know the family as casual acquaintances through church and around town, met the adoptive family and the boy at a Walmart accidentally. They stated it was obvious the boy was "deeply disturbed" and was nearly uncontrollable, and liked to hit his head on things like display cases, shelves, and the floor. 

Complete hearsay, but a search on that person turned up enough local meets and functions and pictures it seems unlikely they were lying just for the hell of it.

[RevDisk]

Oh, speaking of orphanages. This thread just reminded me of This.

No idea who or what the dude in black is, but I like how he thinks.

[Balog]

These people should buy adopt Americans! 

Seriously, why do people look to foreign countries to adopt chidren?  Is the US in short supply?

It is almost impossible to get a traditional closed adoption in America anymore. A pastor at our old church took a baby in for adoption, had her for months, then the birth mom decided she wanted the girl back and they lost the baby. When you adopt from a foreign country, you know your kid's crackhead mom is neither going to try to get the kid back nor demand visitation. That's why people adopt from foreign countries.

My wife and I both have huge hearts for adoption. Look into how idiotic the domestic adoption process is sometime if you want to get angry.

[AJ Dual]

It is almost impossible to get a traditional closed adoption in America anymore. A pastor at our old church took a baby in for adoption, had her for months, then the birth mom decided she wanted the girl back and they lost the baby. When you adopt from a foreign country, you know your kid's crackhead mom is neither going to try to get the kid back nor demand visitation. That's why people adopt from foreign countries.

My wife and I both have huge hearts for adoption. Look into how idiotic the domestic adoption process is sometime if you want to get angry.

Or in foreign countries, due to different economic and cultural circumstances, the mother isn't a crackhead at all, just poor, and can't support the child, or wants to avoid the stigma of single motherhood etc. but is otherwise a completely normal/good person.

If you've read my little anecdote on page one, "The apple does not fall far from the tree" is a big concern for adoptive parents. In the U.S. there's little or no real stigma to single motherhood, so there is the perception that an American child up for adoption has high odds of a pretty screwed up "nature", no matter how good the "nurture" the adoptive family provides.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if you are over 40 its hard to get a baby in the usa unles you go private and some of that has a shady feel. some 23  year old kid fresh outa school will declare at 40 you are not a good fit for a baby.  whats perverse is that i used to foster kids back when i was a junkie/drunk.  now cleaned up i'm proclaimed unfit by some academic

[MillCreek]

Back when I was in administration for a large medical clinic, the OB/GYN department used to get letters from people looking for a private adoption.  They would ask if any of the doctors currently had pregnant patients who were not looking to keep the baby.  This virtually never happened in our area.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Call me funny, but wouldn't you want a thorough med check and diagnostics on any kid you intend to adopt?  Yes, it'd make adoption harder for the problem children, which I am guessing Russia wants to offload, but it would seem fairly normal to ask for that.

It would be pretty easy for the Ruskies to provide fraudulent evidence that the child is a-ok.

[Hawkmoon]

Call me funny, but wouldn't you want a thorough med check and diagnostics on any kid you intend to adopt?  Yes, it'd make adoption harder for the problem children, which I am guessing Russia wants to offload, but it would seem fairly normal to ask for that.

All that information is provided -- by the adoption agency in the child's native country. The adoptions are finalized there before you are allowed to bring the child out of the country. By the time you get the kid home to the U.S. and have your own doctor examine him/her, it's way too late.

Besides, if you live in a small town (or even a small-ish city), how many child psychologists are there likely to be who are fluent in Russian ... and Chinese, Korean, and a few other languages that constitute the bulk of international adoption sources?

Yes, the Russians fudge the data. They can howl and scream all they want, but they cannot be trusted in these matters. My guess is that they won't ever ratify the Hague Convention on the international adoption of children because it would also require THEM to adhere to certain minimum standards, but they'll try to browbeat us into a treaty that absolves them of all responsibility while giving them unprecedented control over OUR citizens.

[MicroBalrog]

Could you give us a summary of the Russian news thoughts on the matter?

Grani.ru, and to a lesser extent news.ru, which I read on a regular basis, argues that the whole thing is a ploy by the Russian government to try and appeal to America-hating segments of society. There have been several moral panics in the near past of the OMG FURRINERS R STEALING OUR CHILDRUNZ variety.