The anti-Smart Meter movement.

[lee n. field]

So, folks have a gut feeling, without necessarily knowing any details of the technology, that these will be used for nefarious purposes.  

Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?

[Boomhauer]

A meter that enables them to read it wirelessly from a distance? Fine. A meter that does anything other than read how much electricity I use? No way in hell. It is not the power company or .gov's business what I use my 'lectricity for, so long as I pay for it.

[K Frame]

"Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?"

Holding a cell phone up to their ear for far too long.

[MillCreek]

A meter that enables them to read it wirelessly from a distance? Fine. A meter that does anything other than read how much electricity I use? No way in hell. It is not the power company or .gov's business what I use my 'lectricity for, so long as I pay for it.

Hmmm.  I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.

[Boomhauer]

Hmmm.  I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.

Cause they do it don't make it right

[RevDisk]

So, folks have a gut feeling, without necessarily knowing any details of the technology, that these will be used for nefarious purposes.  
Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?

Knowing a bit more about the tech, there are better and worse models. The lower end ones have more issues. I've heard of everything ranging from smart meter using non-trivial amount of power (billed to customer), to using same SSH key for every smart meter, to remote disable vulnerabilities, etc. Better models do mesh, use trivial amounts of power, good authentication schema, etc. But they cost more.

The "smart meter knows all you do!", yea...  no. Possible in a lab. Real world? Not practical. Van eck phreaking is significantly more practical.

"Smart meter can mess with my major appliances". Practical, but so stupid it's not funny. Leave frequency alone, please.


Electrical company folks can legally access your meter, nothing more or less. If you put a fence around your entire property, and leave the the meter outside or accessibly outside (know someone that cut a hole in the fence for the reader), they can't force entry onto your property. 

[RevDisk]

Hmmm.  I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.

I'm also familiar with them using FLIR cameras to view folks' homes as well. Avenger is correct, can doesn't mean right.

Just FYI, last I heard, it's basically not legal to jam any radio traffic. Passive material jamming is usually legal, but building codes usually forbid the most effective techniques.

[red headed stranger]

Hmmm.  I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.

And, of course, there have been cases where they raided the wrong house simply because they went above a certain kWh amount too many days in a row.  

[TechMan]

Hmmm.  I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.

Reminds me of a funny story.  I grew up in the snow belt of Ohio (NE OH) and we would average 120" a year of snow (obviously not all at once.)  My parents still live up there and related the following:

Some Asian guys rent a house and turn it into an indoor marijuana grow operation.  The sheriff's department discovered the operation due to the fact that this was the only house in the neighborhood that didn't have any snow on the roof the entire winter, from the heat of the grow lamps. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

there have been cases where they raided the wrong house simply because they went above a certain kWh amount too many days in a row. 


my google fu is weak  i ran a search looking for those "cases"   could you point to one for me?

[Balog]

Ah they are going it, messing with the frequency.  http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/

Not keeping it at exactly precisely on the dot can use it to tell time with 60hz is not the same as altering the frequency as a control mechanism.

[red headed stranger]

there have been cases where they raided the wrong house simply because they went above a certain kWh amount too many days in a row. 


my google fu is weak  i ran a search looking for those "cases"   could you point to one for me?

Here are a couple I found right away: 

http://blogs.computerworld.com/18335/bitcoin_miners_busted_police_confuse_bitcoin_power_usage_for_pot_farm

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/elevated-electric-bill-prompts-pot-raid

[Tallpine]

The remote read meters 

We got those a couple years back.  We used to read our own meter, and write it down on the part of the bill that you send back with the payment.

I'm sorry, I just ain't too worked up about our member owned co-op in Montana.

There have been more than a few reports of "hey, my bill has jumped up quite a bit..." from folks that don't sound like they wear tin foil.

Oh, yeah - our bill jumped too. 

The billing cycle changed and we had about 1.5 months on one bill 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Here are a couple I found right away: 

http://blogs.computerworld.com/18335/bitcoin_miners_busted_police_confuse_bitcoin_power_usage_for_pot_farm

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/elevated-electric-bill-prompts-pot-raid

keep looking

the first one refers to an internet chat about a rumour and see line 18 of page 3 of the warrant on your second link. it debunks the "simply because they went too high on electric bill

[K Frame]

Possible reason why electric bills have give up...

The old analog meters were defective and were not reading correctly.

[RocketMan]

Ah they are going it, messing with the frequency.  http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/25/it-hertz-when-you-do-that-power-grid-to-stop-regulating-60-hz-frequency/

I have a recollection that they bagged that experiment.  Could be wrong, though.

In any event, it's not the meters doing the frequency changing, that's being done at the generation point.  While meters could be built that could alter line frequency, they would be much larger and complex than the smart units what with the added power circuitry and necessary heat sinking.
More low quality tin foil head wear craftmanship.

[TommyGunn]

So, folks have a gut feeling, without necessarily knowing any details of the technology, that these will be used for nefarious purposes.  

Gee, where do you think they could have gotten that idea?

        Oh...I dunno.......

[RoadKingLarry]

Hmmm.  I know that up here in the Seattle area, I have read the occasional media story about electricity use tipping off LEO as to the presence of indoor marijuana grow operations.

I wonder if I get on any "lists" with my green house and using grow lights that can be seen through the windows when I'm starting tomato and pepper plants.

[Tallpine]

I wonder if I get on any "lists" with my green house and using grow lights that can be seen through the windows when I'm starting tomato and pepper plants.

It's been nice knowing you 

[red headed stranger]

keep looking

the first one refers to an internet chat about a rumour and see line 18 of page 3 of the warrant on your second link. it debunks the "simply because they went too high on electric bill

There are numerous reports that back up the bitcoins story, and the Carlsbad case the electricity was the biggest piece of PC presented.

But, I know how much you love a big raid, so carry on with your confirmation bias. 

[Tallpine]

I guess that we're probably next on the list to get our door busted down, because it is like, you know, winter - and after almost ten years here and getting a bit older we decided to turn the baseboard electric heaters to Low and not go downstairs and feed the woodstove in the middle of every night.

 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

There are numerous reports that back up the bitcoins story, and the Carlsbad case the electricity was the biggest piece of PC presented.

But, I know how much you love a big raid, so carry on with your confirmation bias. 

your irony about confirmation bias was great
how many is numerous?  and you think the electric bill trumped the snitch?  and the dog alerting?   no bias at all....

[dm1333]

If a high electric bill is enough to trigger a raid I'll be waiting to see Algores mansion on the news. 

[Scout26]

A couple of things.

1.  Like a couple of other Chicago suburbs, the city of Naperville owns and runs the electric, water, and wastewater utilities.   So it's the city going after the residents, not a utility company and not the city on behalf of a utility.  (One reason I live where  I live, I get my electricity from Constellation Energy and deliverd by ComEd's wires.)

2.  I have a smart water and electric meter.   I get Lake Michigan water and the city of Chicago is sticking it to the DuPage water board, so rates went up this year.  It's really good water and beats the hell out of the iron and sulfur rich well water we used to get. so I'll pay it.   On well city well water, you never felt clean after a shower, the toilet bowl was always stained red, and you could tell by the smell when someone opened a tap.  

3.  A few years ago I agreed to let Comed install a gizmo on the outside breaker box for the A/C.  They give $10 a month off on my electric in the summer months and they can "cycle" my A/C when demand is really high.  Like I care, since I very, very rarely run the A/C.  I ran it two days last year, because it's 68* in the basement all year.  So they end up not cycling anything and my electric bill drops to $30-$35 per month in summer when everyone else's is going through the roof.  

4.  Which is why I laugh when I get telemarketers that call who try to tell me I can save $75-$200 a month on electricity if I install their solar panels or somesuch.   "You'll pay me ?"  I ask.  Once I explain how little I use and what my average monthly bill is (roughly $45 per month).  They give up.  

5.  I don't like the idea of Comed (or the city of Naperville) being able to arbitrarily adjust my power (usage) without my consent, if Whack-A-Doodle #1 and Whack-A-Doodle #2 don't like what Naperville is doing, move.

6.  I lived in Germany which is 220V, 50Hertz AC.  Unless you have 50 cycle electronics it plays bloody hell with 60cycle stuff.  Yeah, you could get transformers to step down to 110V, but it fried electronics on epic scales and royally screwed up anything with a clock or timer.  (Clocks lost ~10 seconds every minute.)  I have no doubt that at some point they may on orders from the .gov play with how much electricity us proles get.  (Carbon tax, Cap & Trade and on and on.)  

[Viking]

I wonder if I get on any "lists" with my green house and using grow lights that can be seen through the windows when I'm starting tomato and pepper plants.

Friend of mine had a visit from the police a few years ago. Apparently, someone had spotted marijuana plants on her window sill. Except these marijuana plants turned out to be tomato plants she was trying to grow. Police still confiscated them, then some time later, she got a letter saying "yes, they turned out to be tomato plants, not marijuana". She also got 2000 krona in compensation for them. She had bought them for 50 krona or something, so she didn't complain about that .