I paused immediately following the shootout. I counted 30+ police officers with guns drawn, advancing on the UPS truck.
How many officers did I count checking on the citizens in the surrounding cars? Zero.
During the shootout, there were over 15 officers actually shooting. Others (of those 30+) were moving into position to shoot, as well.
Guess how many I saw trying to get the citizens in the cars out of harms way? Also zero. EVERY police officer was trying to get into position to shoot or shooting.
IF their number 1 goal was protecting citizens, at least some of them would have realized that firearm #27 focused on the exact same location is PROBABLY not helpful and I should give some attention to the surrounding area.
I'm not saying they couldn't have done anything better, however I don't expect them to handle a black swan event such as this like they were CAG guys or SEALs. I think it is theoretically possible (although I am still withholding judgement) that they did as well as they could under the conditions and knowledge they were operating under.
I watched chopper video too but the one I saw didn't show many non-cop cars in frame by the time they had cleared the truck. I'll agree that perhaps you would have done better if you'd been in command or on the scene.
No.
I know.
What about the possibility of breaking off the hot pursuit and just following the UPS truck with a helicopter? Keep it in view and follow at a distance until the vehicle can be isolated away from masses of civilians, or until the bad guys exit the vehicle.
Yeah, maybe that would have worked. Or maybe the UPS guy would have ended up dead, maybe a family gets carjacked and killed, and then you get to complain about how their inaction led to more dead people just like it did in Parkland and it is proof they are cowards and don't care about people.
If the vehicles the cops were hiding behind had innocent people inside them, then the cops very much were using innocent bystanders as human shields. If the cops weren't hiding behind those vehicles, the bad guys would have no reason to be shooting at those vehicles. Full stop. By using those vehicles as "cover," the cops were directly endangering the occupants.
1. No. That's not using a human shield. Words mean things, and despite knowing better you're lying abut it because you want to be angry at cops.
2. Yes, police engaging from there might draw fire. Or, police firing at the bad guy might suppress them and reduce their ability to fire in that direction.
3. Police being anywhere on a crowded street could draw fire toward an innocent person. I imagine that there were innocent people literally everywhere around that truck so the police being anywhere increases someone's risk. I don't believe (and I doubt anyone yelling about human shields really believes) that any of the cops were intentionally using innocent people as ablative meat shields. Yes, they probably did increase the risk that a given innocent person might have been hit because they were crouching behind their engine block. If the cops had the time to work out all the lines of sight and possible scenarios I doubt they would have planned the event exactly that way.
cordex, I am not saying the cops are bad guys in all this, I just think their tactics could be better and it should be a big training opportunity. My thoughts are all in hindsight. The big question is was keeping their distance and waiting an option at all? Or did the bad guys start shooting before they were closing in? I thought they usually kept their distance in hostage situations but I don't know if those officers knew there was a hostage.
And I'm not saying they did everything perfectly. Yes, I'm sure there were things they could have done better. Maybe waiting would have been a better option. Or maybe not.
I think using occupied cars for cover and shooting from those positions draws fire toward bystanders.
Yes but. See above response.
I would have liked to see some officers working on pulling people out and getting them clear. It is a busy street so it was a sucky situation from the start.
It might have been a good idea, but I can't imagine trying to coordinate that on the fly in the moments before shots started, much less during the gunbattle. It definitely was a sucky situation from the start.
I realize these are not organized police platoon. They are a bunch of singles and pairs coming together to catch these guys. I am not sure who should be organizing things in a situation like that.
I also question whether that many officers should be firing since most of them can't see the occupants of the UPS truck. How do you train for that when these situations are so rare?
It's likely that some of the cops shouldn't have been shooting and were simply firing because everyone else was firing. If this was a kind of things cops faced regularly maybe they would come up with some sound tactical doctrine. Maybe they would be able to somehow identify who had the best angle for lethal cover at any given moment and somehow communicate that those people prepare to shoot while others work to extract innocents. Of course, uniforms could still draw fire and maybe cops pulling people out of vehicles would endanger them as well.
The only solution I could think of for cover is those bullet proof (resistant) riot shields I have seen. That would allow them to approach with some protection and stay clear of cars. Not a perfect solution.
Given time to set up, maybe that would help, although having played with a pistol-rated riot shield during SWAT training I can definitely agree they aren't a perfect solution. Can't imagine the rifle-rated shields ... or having a pistol shield when you needed a rifle shield. As you pointed out, a lot of these guys didn't even have time to get their rifles out. Not sure that they would have had time to get out shields too in this particular case.
How about follow at a distance instead of forcing a confrontation in a crowded area that they had no control over? A helicopter couldn't track a UPS truck? The police showed no regard for the hostage, and very little if any for the public.
Following at a distance might have been a good solution. Or, as I said before, it could have turned out badly, and they'd be blamed for that too.
