Car help?

[JAlexander]

Does anyone know anything about the reliability of the new VW Golfs?  We're looking into cars that get better than 45 mpg, both because I suffer from selective frugality, and because my wife's company will give us a kickback if we buy such a vehicle.  Using 45 mpg as our cutoff, the two best choices seem to be either the Civic hybrid or the VW Golf.  I can't see driving the Prius for various reasons, and while I would love the Accord, it doesn't make the mileage cut.  Hondas are generally all kinds of reliable, and I've heard some iffy things about the newer VWs, but the VW diesel engine actually gets slightly better mileage than the Honda hybrid.

Do any of y'all have experience with either vehicle, or possible alternatives?  I'd appreciate any insights you might have to offer.

James

[cfabe]

Well normally I'd give honda the reliability nod over VW, but not on the hybrids. Chances are your VW diesel will still be going strong at 120k miles, and the hybrid I think it's anyone's best guess as to battery lifetime. And that'll be a mighty expensive battery replacement, too. In fact I'd go as far as to say the lifetime of a hybrid is determined by when the batteries wear out; nobody will pay to replace them, just junk the car.

[Art Eatman]

I'd bet that diesel motor will be rattling away happily, long after all the other stuff on the car has hollered "Calf rope!"

Art

[DigMe]

Volkswagen's reliability rating (According to JD Powers and the like) has gone down the tubes over the past few years and right now it's just downright dismal.

brad cook

[Art Eatman]

Digme, is that powertrains, or electronics or ancillary equipment?  Or, all of the above?

Art

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I wouldn't have a problem at all buying a TDI Volkswagen. I don't care for the restyling of the new Jetta, but the technology is solid from everything I see, read and hear.

If Honda comes to market with their diesel engines in the US, I'd be glad to look closely at a diesel Accord.  I hear it allegedly meets the tough 2007 emission standards for diesels easily.

SWMBO has her sights on a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. As for my $.02, I don't think the benefits equal the additional costs, both up front, potential maintenance (although it's 'covered under warranty') nightmares, resale (virtually none with the way we hang onto cars until they're ready to crush) and not to mention that I keep thinking they could be a LOT more efficient in the next generation.  SWMBO however, has her own money and makes her own decisions a a member of The Car-Buying Public.

Of course, I'm the same person who has considered sticking a small 2 cylinder diesel powerplant attached to a generator and electric motor in the previously empty engine bay of a Suburban. With a fuel consumption rating of 1 gallon per hour, it's only limited in fuel mileage by the open road.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[cfabe]

I wouldn't have a problem at all buying a TDI Volkswagen. I don't care for the restyling of the new Jetta, but the technology is solid from everything I see, read and hear.

If Honda comes to market with their diesel engines in the US, I'd be glad to look closely at a diesel Accord.  I hear it allegedly meets the tough 2007 emission standards for diesels easily.

Of course, I'm the same person who has considered sticking a small 2 cylinder diesel powerplant attached to a generator and electric motor in the previously empty engine bay of a Suburban. With a fuel consumption rating of 1 gallon per hour, it's only limited in fuel mileage by the open road.

Regards,
Rabbit.

A diesel-electric suburban. Like a locomotive. Very fitting. I like it!

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Exactly. It's getting back to it's GM (albeit F9) roots.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[JAlexander]

I wouldn't have a problem at all buying a TDI Volkswagen. I don't care for the restyling of the new Jetta, but the technology is solid from everything I see, read and hear.

If Honda comes to market with their diesel engines in the US, I'd be glad to look closely at a diesel Accord.  I hear it allegedly meets the tough 2007 emission standards for diesels easily.

Yeah, while I've heard bad things about the engines in the New Beetles and the Jettas, I haven't been able to find out if that's all the engines, or what.  I'd really like to know, because if the VW diesels are reliable, then that 45+ mpg is  very appealing.

Is Honda talking about bringing their diesel engines to the US?  If they are, I'll just wait.

I really wish that Toyota'd import their diesel Hi-Lux.  If they did, I think they'd sell a whole bunch of 'em.  

James

[DigMe]

Art,

You can read about the JD Powers info here:

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089

They also scored near the bottom in initial quality:
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

brad cook

[mtnbkr]

I really wish that Toyota'd import their diesel Hi-Lux.  If they did, I think they'd sell a whole bunch of 'em

You an' me both.  Unfortunately, Toyota thinks they won't sell well in the US.  Dunno why, every Toyota 4x4 nut I know would buy one.

Chris

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

I almost forgot; you know those TDI's are tuneable/chippable. VW had a TDI Jetta some years ago that was a test mule for endurance racing. It performed admirably and didn't require nearly as many pitstops for fuel.  

Here's one of my favorite TDI links:

http://www.tdiclub.com/


Some of these guys are getting 270+ hp out of TDI's with a simple injector swap and chip-tuning.  There'a a post by a guy who ran 1400 miles on a 25 gallon tank in his Wagon.  I could live like that.  SWMBO is mad at VW because they won't put the TDI in the convertible Beetle.  She confronted a VWoA bigwig who said it 'didn't do well in consumer testing because of the smell when the top was down'.  With New Beetle sales slumping worldwide, you'd think they'd consider it.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

...then there's this....

http://www.windingroad.com/article/2005_october/accord_hybrid_jetta_tdi_mini_cooper


(don't worry, it's a free email subscription!)


Regards,
Rabbit.

[JAlexander]

I really wish that Toyota'd import their diesel Hi-Lux.  If they did, I think they'd sell a whole bunch of 'em

You an' me both.  Unfortunately, Toyota thinks they won't sell well in the US.  Dunno why, every Toyota 4x4 nut I know would buy one.

Chris

I think their market research folks must be smoking something, because I'd say the number of farmers and ranchers who'd buy one is pretty significant.  If I had the opportunity, I'd definitely get a diesel Toyota for day-to-day hay-hauling and fence work, while keeping an old 3/4 or 1 ton truck around for hauling big loads.  I know I can't be the only person who thinks that way.

James

[Moondoggie]

Hey Rabbit...

My best friend & I were talking about diesel/electric power for a vehicle just yesterday.

Here's my thoughts:

My 2 cyl Kubota genset on my 18 wheeler generates 5.5KW on .2 gal of diesel fuel per hr.  That's 11 HP @ 2800 rpm.  It's got a class 1 muffler, and is pretty quiet.

The genset weighs about 300 lbs.

OK, why can't a small diesel genset like mine be used to charge batteries in an otherwise electric powered vehicle to extend the range?  5.5 KW of 110 volts is more power than anybody's gonna have hooked up to a charging system in their garage on a 20 amp circuit.  Also could charge the batteries when parked if there's no 110 to plug into.

I'm certainly no electrical engineer.  I recognize that battery life/cost of replacement is an issue that must be overcome, but I do think that there are more economical and enviornmentally effective avenues open to us if we'd just take them.  Or at least look at them.

[Iain]

The business over what they import and what they don't import has never made sense to me.

Nissan have shipped a few thousand of their American 4x4 over here, and our motoring journalists love it, but afaik no plans to ship more. Vauxhall finally starting shipping their insane Monaro over here (V8 muscle car that loves going sideways) and then a year later announced they were going to stop making it. Honda have a great reputation for reliability here that goes hand in hand with their 'cars for old people' reputation. They make a really cool looking mid size 4x4 for the US market that would sell in spades here. Guarantee the new Mustang would sell well here too.

And I can't get cinnamon chewing gum.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Here in Texas, at least, the hybrid Accords are collecting dust and bird droppings on the dealer's back lots whereas the Prius is a 'wait 6 months to get one' proposition.  The Honda hybrids, at least the Accords, not the Insights, aren't recognizable as 'high-zoot hybrid (look at me, I'm GREEN!) cars'.  Hence, the funny looking ones sell first.

The hybrid Accord has more horsepower and torque than the standard Accord, and will match the 3 Series BMWs in quickness.  The mileage isn't as good as the Prius, but then the rated mileage on Insights and Prii isn't as good in the Real World as the EPA says it gets in the lab on the dyno.

Oh, and Iain, the Holden Murano we get here is rebadged as the Pontiac GTO.  We got the 6 liter V-8 engine as is in the Corvette and 6 speed manual for 2005. They sell from the sound alone here. The styling sure doesn't do much.  Looks like a molten cough lozenge...or a 1990 Accord.   Too bad we don't get some of those Aussie Utility body vehicles here- 4 door sedans mated to a pickup bed.  

Regards,
Rabbit.

[caseydog]

While the JDPower Initial quality numbers are for 2005 , the vehicle dependability numbers are for the 2002 model year , in which case GM's rating must not include Police cars , because there is talk of a class action suit over the '01 - 02 Impala police package , they are running at somewhere around 40% trans failure by 50,000 miles, the ABS systems and wheel speed sensor failures are significant , the dual engine cooling fans are good for about 40k and must be replaced as a module ($$$) , rack and pinion mounting bolts are subject to fatigue problems (read "steering failure"), and the "information center" in the dash which reports tire pressure , lamp burnout and such is a nightmare.

Either they're smokin crack or these vehicles are sifted from the repair data coming back from dealers.
We just ordered two new Crown Vic Police Interceptors, even though the front drive Impala is a significant improvement in winter mobility it's of no use sitting in the dealers garage. The 1995 Crown Vic we just retired from service at 139k has logged 50% less total shop time than our 2002 Impala at 41k.

Ray

(who oversees maint. and repairs on a number of Police vehicles)

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Also, you should take into consideration that the J.D. Power records include such things as bulbs that burn out early, seat belt retraction problems, litle squeaks and rattles, loose nuts and bolts, and any little such niggling problem that could bring a vehicle back to a dealership for an adjustment under warranty....not to mention complaints about real-world mileage vs. EPA rated mileage.

Most car makers selling vehicles in America right now are doing pretty good as far as quality, albeit with some isolated problems.  Take the Power numbers with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Regards,
Rabbit.