Marion Zimmer Bradley, hero to feminists and lesbians, was a child molester

[Balog]

And no one seems to care. She repeatedly molested her own daughter, as well as numerous other boys and girls. In her own sworn testimony she admits to enabling and covering up one of her husbands raping boys as young as 10 years old. Hell, she even edited his book in praise of pedophilia. This has been public domain information for years. And we still have people praising her. Disgusting.

http://www.sff.net/people/stephen.goldin/mzb/

http://www.teleread.com/writing/marion-zimmer-bradley-child-abuser-says-daughter/

http://www.sff.net/people/stephen.goldin/mzb/excerpts1.html

[TommyGunn]

   Who was Marion Zimmer Bradley?   

[brimic]

Never heard of her, shoukd I have?
Leftist lefties usually get a pass on stuff like this,

[BlueStarLizzard]

She is one of the most prolific and influential writers of SF. I think her most well known work is The Mists of Avalon which is a retelling of the legends of King Arther from a female perspective.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley

[TommyGunn]

She is one of the most prolific and influential writers of SF. I think her most well known work is The Mists of Avalon which is a retelling of the legends of King Arther from a female perspective.

   I didn't see THAT coming!    Geeeesh.   Being a SF aficionado I sorta thought the "Bradley" name was familiar but the "Marion Zimmer" went "woooosh" right over my head.
Hell's Bells.
Next thing I'll learn is that Isaac Asimov was a serial murderer........

[BlueStarLizzard]

 I didn't see THAT coming!    Geeeesh.   Being a SF aficionado I sorta thought the "Bradley" name was familiar but the "Marion Zimmer" went "woooosh" right over my head.
Hell's Bells.
Next thing I'll learn is that Isaac Asimov was a serial murderer........

I find this intresting from the perspective that Mercades Lackey is my favorite author and she was considered a protege of MZB.
The thing is Lackey has written a whole series were a central element has been protection of the innocent and children, and most of her books and other writings indicate she is the kind of person to find child abuse and molestation particularly abhorent. She's also done a lot of charatable work with battered woman. I kind of wonder what her take is on this.

[Tallpine]

Well, I still enjoyed Mists of Avalon

I also watched the movie version on YT not too long ago.

It was really weird to see "Atherton Wing" as King Arthur 

[roo_ster]

I read some of the deposition transcripts and was left alternately      

Hard to explain the tone of her answers, some of which were of the sort, "My husband was not likely to have relations with BoyXXX because BoyXXX was too old for him at 15 years."  (She & hers being sued by parents of BoyXXX.)

And her sexual abuse of her own daughter was no walk in the park, either.

The first time she molested me, I was three. The last time, I was twelve, and able to walk away. I put Walter in jail for molesting one boy. I had tried to intervene when I was 13 by telling Mother and Lisa, and they just moved him into his own apartment. I had been living partially on couches since I was ten years old because of the out of control drugs, orgies, and constant flow of people in and out of our family ‘home.’ None of this should be news. Walter was a serial rapist with many, many, many victims (I named 22 to the cops) but Marion was far, far worse. She was cruel and violent, as well as completely out of her mind sexually. I am not her only victim, nor were her only victims girls.

Oh, and Aurthur C Clarke did not move to Ceylon for the scuba diving.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Well, I still enjoyed Mists of Avalon

I also watched the movie version on YT not too long ago.

It was really weird to see "Atherton Wing" as King Arthur 

I'll be honest, I don't like MZB stuff all that much. I get bored with it.
Mist of Avalon was intresting in the perspective and the begining of a trend I really like. The actual writing, though, makes me snooze...

[AJ Dual]

Oh, and Aurthur C Clarke did not move to Ceylon for the scuba diving.

Yeah, heard about that. 

Although I could figure even as a kid reading his books he was "off" and not exactly attached to humanity in the way most people are. He makes Issac Asimov look like a virtuoso of character development.

[Tallpine]

I'll be honest, I don't like MZB stuff all that much. I get bored with it.
Mist of Avalon was intresting in the perspective and the begining of a trend I really like. The actual writing, though, makes me snooze...

The point of view switching was a little hard to keep up with.  Long tale, and sort of depressing towards the end, but I liked the color of the time period.

[BlueStarLizzard]

The point of view switching was a little hard to keep up with.  Long tale, and sort of depressing towards the end, but I liked the color of the time period.

Agreed. I get burned out pretty quick with lot's of politics and tons of characters (especially if they use a lot of complicated or uncommen names)
But I've also read other books by her and I found them a little dry. I think Mists was decent because of the richness of material and orginal story rather then her actual writing.

[lee n. field]

Yeah, heard about that. 

Although I could figure even as a kid reading his books he was "off" and not exactly attached to humanity in the way most people are. He makes Issac Asimov look like a virtuoso of character development.

Few or no female characters of significance, that I can recall.

[Balog]

I read some of the deposition transcripts and was left alternately      

Hard to explain the tone of her answers, some of which were of the sort, "My husband was not likely to have relations with BoyXXX because BoyXXX was too old for him at 15 years."  (She & hers being sued by parents of BoyXXX.)

And her sexual abuse of her own daughter was no walk in the park, either.

Oh, and Aurthur C Clarke did not move to Ceylon for the scuba diving.

That was the worst part. "Oh, I knew he was intellectually a pedophile but I thought he was impotent." "Well, that 10 year old he was raping seemed really mature."

 

And this sub human piece of trash is still required reading in many a college course, and held up as a hero in countless college classes. Disgusting.

[TommyGunn]

Yeah, heard about that. 

Although I could figure even as a kid reading his books he was "off" and not exactly attached to humanity in the way most people are. He makes Issac Asimov look like a virtuoso of character development.

  Er, um, uh.....WHAT?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

[AJ Dual]

  Er, um, uh.....WHAT?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Elijah Bailey the New York megacity detective in the robot novels is the only fleshed out character in any of his books. And I've read all of them.

Maybe 20,000 years later, Golan Trevize Foundation councilman, who's got his cantankerous perma-batchelor skeptic attitude? Even then he's pretty one dimensional.

Hari Seldon? You'd think he'd be important. Nope vanilla. Just kind of carried along by events.

I'm not saying there's NONE for his characters, but it's still pretty damn flat. Whatever character development you THINK you read in Asimov's stuff, you probably projected yourself.

[Dannyboy]

It was really weird to see "Atherton Wing" as King Arthur 

Thread drift.  Two months ago I would have had no idea what that meant.  But now I do.  And I get some of jokes in Castle, as well.

[TommyGunn]

Elijah Bailey the New York megacity detective in the robot novels is the only fleshed out character in any of his books. And I've read all of them.

Maybe 20,000 years later, Golan Trevize Foundation councilman, who's got his cantankerous perma-batchelor skeptic attitude? Even then he's pretty one dimensional.

Hari Seldon? You'd think he'd be important. Nope vanilla. Just kind of carried along by events.

I'm not saying there's NONE for his characters, but it's still pretty damn flat. Whatever character development you THINK you read in Asimov's stuff, you probably projected yourself.

Oh yea, that was one of his weak points and he was well aware of it.  It never really hurt him because he did so well in other areas.
I just was dealing with A.C. Clarke's ....peculiarities (didn't go to Sri Lanka for the scuba diving .... ...yea, OK.... ) and wondering what ...er, um, peculiarities Asimov had.
I have since done some research and he seemed pretty OK save for the fact he was a "flaming liberal."
A good friend of mine belonged to a New York City club Asimov also belonged to and was a friend of his.  I myself never met the man.

[Tallpine]

Only thing I've heard about Asimov was that he was afraid to leave NYC 

[TommyGunn]

Only thing I've heard about Asimov was that he was afraid to leave NYC 

He hated flying and apparently only did it twice in his life.   He was also a "clausterphile" (loved small spaces) and generally arranged his surroundings accordingly. 
There's a good article in Wikipedia about him if you want to find out about him.

[AJ Dual]

Oh yea, that was one of his weak points and he was well aware of it.  It never really hurt him because he did so well in other areas.
I just was dealing with A.C. Clarke's ....peculiarities (didn't go to Sri Lanka for the scuba diving .... ...yea, OK.... ) and wondering what ...er, um, peculiarities Asimov had.
I have since done some research and he seemed pretty OK save for the fact he was a "flaming liberal."
A good friend of mine belonged to a New York City club Asimov also belonged to and was a friend of his.  I myself never met the man.

That seems pretty par for the course. I think most all of the SciFi authors (And everyone else too) who lived through the Great Depression then WWII got a huge heaping dose of Big.gov is good, then toa little topper during the space-race.

Even RAH was pretty heavy on "Big.gov is the hero" in the first half of his career. You see the first hints of his change in the '59 Starship Troopers, where the whole book was essentially a thought-experiment on "How does one make Big.gov responsible, good, lean-n-mean, and ethical?". Then in the 60's and 70's I think he figured out it's probably damn near well impossible for Big.gov to be "good", just that it looks that way it's standing next to the Nazis and Stalin, and went pretty full-bore Libertarian.

Then he went all time travel incest-y. 

[MechAg94]

I was kind of thinking the Starship Troopers govt was practically libertarian compared to our FedGov today.  Even that one had a "history" that included WWIII and the downfall of the US.  But yeah, later stuff like Friday definitely left the moral values behind at the least.  Not sure Job falls in the order.  He didn't care for organized religion either. 

[Balog]

I was kind of thinking the Starship Troopers govt was practically libertarian compared to our FedGov today.  Even that one had a "history" that included WWIII and the downfall of the US.  But yeah, later stuff like Friday definitely left the moral values behind at the least.  Not sure Job falls in the order.  He didn't care for organized religion either. 

I don't recall much description of civilian governance except the military service for citizenship thing.

[Perd Hapley]

Balog, aren't you supposed to be ranting about thread necromancy right now? 

[Balog]

Balog, aren't you supposed to be ranting about thread necromancy right now? 

Four months and brought up after it was linked in a related thread, vs four years and necroed intentionally just to necro.