Jury pool stupidity

[Brad Johnson]

Found out today through another agent that being self-employed is no longer an exemption for jury duty. wha-Wha-WHAT!!??

I guess they forget what "self-employed" actually means.  My income is totally dependent on me actually working.  I don't have vacation time, sick leave, or jury days.  I don't have a regular salary that I get whether I serve or not.  I don't have a secretary or assistant that can handle things in my absence.  I have me.  The person that dreamt up this crock obviously has a nice, cushy, salaried job where they don't have to worry about being able to pay the bills if they are stuck in a jury box for any number of days.  Leave it to a government employee to make a policy this... this... this... RETARDED!! (sorry, took me a bit to think of a descriptor that was publicly acceptable)

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem serving on a jury.  I've served on several and actually enjoyed the whole process.  However, this is a public policy that not only actively ignores a self-employed person's ability to pay their bills, it flat-out rejects it as inconsequential.  I have a HUGE problem with that.

Brad

[cordex]

I don't have an awful lot of experience with juries, but the one time I served the Judge allowed anyone who needed to do something else that day - regardless of the reason - to leave.  Maybe things are done differently here, or maybe there was a special situation but since then I haven't been all that concerned.

[Declaration Day]

I share your concern, Brad.  I was summoned to serve last May, and worked ahead of schedule as much as possible the day before.  Fortunately, the trial I was called to serve on lasted about 30 seconds.  The perp decided to change his plea to guilty.  I spent about 3 hours there total, then was able to get back to work.

[HankB]

I've been called to jury duty several times, and have served as a juror. But then, I'm not self-employed.

If you REALLY want to get out of jury duty, it's not hard during the voir dire part to say something that will get you tossed.

[cordex]

If you REALLY want to get out of jury duty, it's not hard during the voir dire part to say something that will get you tossed.

"I would never second guess a police officer."
"Cops are all dirty liars."
"Whar's ya'lls hangin' ropes?"

Actually, in my single experience, anyone who said anything during voir dire was excused.

[Vodka7]

I've been called multiple times and served once when I was home for vacation from college and didn't feel like getting out of it.

Most crimes in my area involved drugs, so if you get called for a drug trial, just say your best friends smoke a lot of pot.  If it's a civil case, just say you went to one of the doctors they've got testifying a few years ago.

[crt360]

I've been called to jury duty several times, and have served as a juror. But then, I'm not self-employed.

If you REALLY want to get out of jury duty, it's not hard during the voir dire part to say something that will get you tossed.

There you go.  Just don't go nuts and get tossed in the wrong place for contempt.

[wmenorr67]

The only time I was called I was in Korea at the time.  My Dad called the judge's office and told them I would be unable to attend.  They asked why I wasn't calling to request to be excused.  Once my Dad said I was stationed in Korea they said "Excused."  Always hoped to get called and get to sit on a juicy trial.  But with my luck the case I get would involve something mundane involving fence lines.

[Monkeyleg]

I've been called for jury duty twice since I became self-employed in 1987.

The defense attorneys didn't want middle-aged white males, so I didn't serve on any criminal cases.

There was a civil suit that the judge warned would likely last weeks and weeks, given the number of defendants. She asked if any prospective jurors would have a problem. I explained my situation, and was excused from the pool.

[CAnnoneer]

Actually, in my single experience, anyone who said anything during voir dire was excused.

If you have an opinion on anything, you might actually think for yourself. Our legal system can ill-afford a thinker.

[Bogie]

Where a t-shirt that says "FIJA" in big letters on the front.

[MechAg94]

The problem with juicy cases is that they can last quite a while.  Murder trials aren't often any more fun to sit through.  I think I was lucky that the trial I sat on only lasted 3 days.  I bet that defense attorney would have strung it along if the judge would have let him.

I have been called for jury duty twice, and been picked both times. 

[Chris]

In my experiences as both a prosecutor and a magistrate, if you really face a hardship by being away from work, most judges will excuse you if you appear.  Don't skip out, or you could end up facing a capias warrant and a contempt citation.  Show up, tell the judge honestly how your absence from work will impact you.  Unless the judge is a jerk, you'll be excused.

[Robert Sears]

Sorry it's not stupidity. Notice it is jury"DUTY", not right or priviledge. No where on the Summons from Harris County Tx that I have in my hands does it say anything about self-employed being an exemption from DUTY. Stop your bellyaching and go do your  DUTY. We live in a Democratic Republic part of that is serving on juries. I am undergoing Chemo therapy for lymphoma I postponed  but can not get out of jury DUTY.  IT IS AFTRER ALL A DUTY! ( and yes I know I'm shouting)

Bob Sears

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Sorry it's not stupidity. Notice it is jury"DUTY", not right or priviledge. No where on the Summons from Harris County Tx that I have in my hands does it say anything about self-employed being an exemption from DUTY. Stop your bellyaching and go do your  DUTY. We live in a Democratic Republic part of that is serving on juries. I am undergoing Chemo therapy for lymphoma I postponed  but can not get out of jury DUTY.  IT IS AFTRER ALL A DUTY! ( and yes I know I'm shouting)

Bob Sears

Feeling a bit self-righteous, are we?

The self-employed don't enjoy any of the securities and assurances that wage slaves do.  For the self-employed, jury duty isn't the mere inconvenience that it is for most of the public.  A few days away from the office and the self-employed might get back to find that his business isn't in business anymore. 

Duty is all well and good, but nobody in his right mind expects a citizen to serve jury duty at the risk of his health, family, or livelihood.  Choosing to preserve your business, which your family and employees depend upon for their wellbeing, isn't shirking your civic duty.  It's being a responsible adult and a responsible business owner.

Jury members are supposed to be citizens of a free republic, not slaves of the court to be ordered around at the whim of a black-robed king.

[Robert Sears]

No Headless I' don't feel self righteous . I'm just pointing out that there are all sorts of duty, including duty to ones counrety. As I said the State of Texas doesn't recognize self employment as an excuse to get out of jury duty. He has the right to appeal to the judge for relief, that's the system. But if the judge says no he should serve, IMO.

Bob

[Brad Johnson]

As I said the State of Texas doesn't recognize self employment as an excuse to get out of jury duty.

It's not the state you pious dipwad. 

If you actually knew anything about local jury pools you'd know that jury pools, for the most part, are municipal and county.  This is a local issue. 

Get off your soapboax, stop preaching, and go work for yourself for a while.  Then when you get called for jury duty and have to put your only source of revenue on indefinite hold you can see just how wonderful it actually is.  Until then, keep the righteous indignation to yourself.

But if the judge says no he should serve, IMO.

And who holds the judge responsible when I become bankrupt and homeless because of their decision?

Brad

p.s. - we live in a Representative Republic, not a "Democratic Republic".  Learn your government.

[El Tejon]

Brad, as cordex explained, up there judges are quite forgiving about excusing someone if work will preoccupy them.  Attorneys rarely want someone who is not going to be paying attention or angry about being there to serve on a jury.  Up here people will tell you that they just can't do it because of self-employment, let them go you don't need someone who is angry on a jury who could take it out on your guy.

Do the judges down there tell you how long the trial is anticipated to take?  If it does go more than you can afford, raise your hand and tell them.

As far as Texas law, I don't know what to tell you.  Maybe lobby about getting the statute changed back?

cordex, were you called as a potential jury member in my cousin's court (Judge Love in Hendricks Superior II)?

[Brad Johnson]

As far as Texas law, I don't know what to tell you.  Maybe lobby about getting the statute changed back?

It's not Texas law, it's local jury pool policy.  We even have one judge who will specifically tell you that service on a jury is the greatest service you can render to your community, so your service should not be exempted for any reason.  He, of course, draws a nice ever-present salary with all kinds of perks, including not having to serve on a jury.  Oh, he gets called like everyone else.  But what attorney in their right mind is going to place a sitting judge on a jury panel?  It effectively exempts him from jury service while still giving him the ability to say he isn't exempt.  Talk about a double standard!

Brad

[El Tejon]

O.K., so it's a local rule.  Then don't lobby Austin.  Lobby your county commissioners, tell them to bring heat to the judges to rescind the local rule.

[crt360]

It's not the state you pious dipwad. 

If you actually knew anything about local jury pools you'd know that jury pools, for the most part, are municipal and county.  This is a local issue. 

Get off your soapboax, stop preaching, and go work for yourself for a while.  Then when you get called for jury duty and have to put your only source of revenue on indefinite hold you can see just how wonderful it actually is.  Until then, keep the righteous indignation to yourself.


Brad

p.s. - we live in a Representative Republic, not a "Democratic Republic".  Learn your government.

If you're talking about the source of exemptions for serving on a petit jury, it is the State of Texas.  Section 62.106 of the Government Code.

---------------------------

As for sitting all day through empanelment and voir dire for $6.00 instead of running your business, yeah it sucks.  I'm a lawyer and I've done it - spending my day in district court jury duty even though I know the judge, the prosecutor and every one of the defense attorneys.  Sure, none of them wanted me on the jury, but it didn't keep me from having to sit there until the final cut.  Municipal court - same thing.  I go just like everyone else and sit through the whole thing.  It doesn't matter that I know the city attorneys, muni. judges or JPs.  If selected, I'd gladly serve and I have a lot of respect for all of the other potential jurors who show up even though they are economically burdened by it.

For those of you who don't run your own business, keep in mind that the law in Texas does not require your employer to pay you for the work time you missed for jury duty.

[Brad Johnson]

If you're talking about the source of exemptions for serving on a petit jury, it is the State of Texas.  Section 62.106 of the Government Code.

Grrrreat 

I guess on the upside is that muni and county cases rarely last more than a few days.  I served on a fed jury once.  That was interesting...

Brad

[Robert Sears]

Brad,
  I'm sorry you will lose your business opportunities for a day -- it s***. Some people should not try to run their own business. I know I'm one of them. If you want financial hardship try being out of work for 18 month(not taking unemployment though eligible) Work contract for 2 months and suffer a heart attack out of work for 3 months then only able to work parttime afterwrds due to the heart. Then find out you have cancer and have to use the county med system because you have no money or insurance and get to woirk even lees because of all the time you are in the hospitala nd undergoing chemo. My income has been cut by 60%. I'll be glad to give you the 200K+ medical bills.

Bob

[m1911owner]

Where a t-shirt that says "FIJA" in big letters on the front.

That's...  pretty much what I was thinking.   

Or more to the point, when the judge instructs us that we are not to consider whether we think the law is right or wrong, then I would have to pipe up that I have a problem with that, that he just swore us in to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and then proceeded to instruct us exactly the opposite, and I that would have to follow the Constitution that I was just sworn to uphold.

[Brad Johnson]

Brad,
  I'm sorry you will lose your business opportunities for a day -- it s***. Some people should not try to run their own business. I know I'm one of them. If you want financial hardship try being out of work for 18 month(not taking unemployment though eligible) Work contract for 2 months and suffer a heart attack out of work for 3 months then only able to work parttime afterwrds due to the heart. Then find out you have cancer and have to use the county med system because you have no money or insurance and get to woirk even lees because of all the time you are in the hospitala nd undergoing chemo. My income has been cut by 60%. I'll be glad to give you the 200K+ medical bills.

Bob

Dang, tough go.  By the way... I came down pretty hard on you earlier.  You happened to step squarely on a nerve that someone else had rubbed raw and I took it out on you.  Aplogies for that.

Brad