Author Topic: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards  (Read 2501 times)

Manedwolf

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No, this is NOT a joke.

When can we all just point at these people and laugh our a$$es off? And when will the rest of the world catch on and do the same ?

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(Fox) NEW DELHI   It was hardly a Hallmark moment.

As a Valentine's Day card smoldered, more than 100 members of the Hindu extremist group Shiv Sena gathered in central New Delhi chanted "Death to Valentine's Day" and "People who celebrate Valentine's Day should be pelted with shoes!"

Valentine's Day has in the past two decades made strong inroads in India as the country has slowly opened itself up to the outside world  its economic boom bringing in not just foreign investment, but also aspects of Western culture virtually unknown here a quarter-century ago.

Across the country, stores stocked heart-shaped balloons and chocolates, restaurants offered Valentine's Day specials and young lovers found refuge from prying eyes in the parks.

It's a state of affairs that enrages Hindu and Muslim hard-liners, who on Wednesday vented just as they do every Valentine's Day  burning cards, holding rallies and even threatening to beat couples caught canoodling in public, a strict no-no for those who claim to defend traditional Indian values.

"This is a conspiracy to misguide the young people of our country," said Jai Bhagwan Goel, chief of the Shiv Sena's north India branch.

In his hand the card, with its image of a Victorian couple pictured in a tepid peck under a parasol, went up in flames.

"We have come to know that in America, even unmarried girls as young as 11 or 12 years have become mothers ... and every second man there is divorced," Goel told reporters after reducing several greeting cards to a small pile of ash. "This is their culture it cannot be accepted here."

Goel and his indignant followers left soon after when about 60 riot police stopped them from advancing on nearby restaurants offering Valentine's Day specials.

For the day, the Hindu hard-liners found themselves, unusually, on the same side as Islamic separatist groups in Indian-controlled Kashmir, a predominantly Muslim region in the Himalayas.

About 40 protesters, calling themselves the Forum Against Social Evil, marched on a popular restaurant area in Srinagar, the region's main city, calling on shop owners to refuse to serve couples and refrain from un-Islamic practices on Wednesday.

"The government is promoting such obscenities," said Asiya Andrabi, the leader of Kashmir's only women's separatist group, Dukhtaran-e-Millat, before police ordered them away, too.

Kashmir's separatists want independence from predominantly Hindu India or a union with Muslim Pakistan, which controls the other part of the divided region.

Weather intervened to stop Hindu extremists in the northern city of Lucknow from carrying out their threats to beat couples found kissing, hugging or even holding hands in public. With torrential rains pouring down, young lovers stayed out of the parks where the usually seek privacy.

Still, even if some lovers stayed out of sight, they made their desires known, placing ads on special Valentine's Day pages in newspapers.

"My heart is like a cabbage," declared a man named Manoj to some lucky lady. "Divided into two; the leaves are for others and the heart for you."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 04:49:57 AM »
Yeah, because no one every laughs at religious conservatives.   undecided


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"We have come to know that in America, even unmarried girls as young as 11 or 12 years have become mothers ... and every second man there is divorced," Goel told reporters after reducing several greeting cards to a small pile of ash. "This is their culture it cannot be accepted here."
I don't know if their stats are correct, but America IS severely messed up in this department.  I can't blame them for being worried about that spreading to India, or for seeing Valentine's Day as a symbol of that sort of influence. 
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Manedwolf

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 04:55:07 AM »
Yeah, because no one every laughs at religious conservatives.   undecided


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"We have come to know that in America, even unmarried girls as young as 11 or 12 years have become mothers ... and every second man there is divorced," Goel told reporters after reducing several greeting cards to a small pile of ash. "This is their culture it cannot be accepted here."
I don't know if their stats are correct, but America IS severely messed up in this department.  I can't blame them for being worried about that spreading to India, or for seeing Valentine's Day as a symbol of that sort of influence. 

Dude, they're burning greeting cards and talking about beating couples being cuddly in public.

That deserves being laughed at for the former, and shot for the latter, IMO.

One's ridiculous, one's just anti-civilization.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2007, 05:05:46 AM »
I should have clarified that I don't agree with what they're doing.  But there's nothing funny about it.  There's nothing funny about America's social problems, like divorce and teenaged sexual activity.  There's nothing funny about what will happen to India if that takes hold there.  They're probably attacking the wrong target, with the card-burning, but I don't see any reason to laugh.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2007, 05:12:41 AM »
I should have clarified that I don't agree with what they're doing.  But there's nothing funny about it.  There's nothing funny about America's social problems, like divorce and teenaged sexual activity.  There's nothing funny about what will happen to India if that takes hold there.  They're probably attacking the wrong target, with the card-burning, but I don't see any reason to laugh.

Because laughing at the foibles of an enemy is one of the best ways to keep up morale against them, rather than to fear them. Just look at all the caricatures and humor stuff about Nazis and Japanese from WWII...every comic strip and comedian and even cartoons made fun of the enemy as a way to knock out some of their teeth. It worked.

We're doing it now, too. I found this spoof video pretty darned funny. "Terrorist Bloopers"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w57JLmY5dmw

CAnnoneer

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2007, 05:42:19 AM »
I'd like to see a serious argument as to how Valentine's Day is responsible for teenage pregnancy and high divorce rates. Until then, mockery is these clowns' rightful lot.

Laurent du Var

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2007, 05:54:00 AM »
"Mohinder, Mohinder - stop lusting after the boy with the soccerball and start saving the cheerleader !"
Vada a bordo, Cazzo!

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2007, 06:18:35 AM »
ManedWolf, I didn't know that the Indian moral majority was our enemy. 

CAnny, did you think I was saying that V-Day cards are responsible for that stuff?  I wasn't.  I don't even think these Indian guys believe that.  But for these people, divorce and promiscuity are American exports and part of American culture.  This Western Valentine's Day, to them, seems like a celebration of that, and I think that's understandable, even if it may not be true.  The family is very important in India, so it's not surprising or funny that these people want to defend it from what they view as a corrupting influence. 
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2007, 09:19:54 AM »
That they are scared, stupid, and ignorant is an explanation but no excuse. They make asses out of themselves and thus a subject of free ridicule. A global culture that respects ignorance and stupidity is ultimately self-defeating.

Mannlicher

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2007, 09:23:07 AM »
Frankly, the whole "Valentine" thing has been just beaten into the ground.   What was at one time, a sappy sentiment, has become just another marketing juggernaut.
I don't have any problem with folks in other cultures, that worship other religions, being PO'd at American excess.

Dannyboy

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 09:29:00 AM »
But for these people, divorce and promiscuity are American exports and part of American culture.

If they truly believe that then they do deserve mockery.  Those are two cultures with ages in the thousands.  They've had their own fair share of promiscuity and divorce.
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 09:49:01 AM »
  Those are two cultures with ages in the thousands.  They've had their own fair share of promiscuity and divorce.

If you're talking about the custom in some Muslim lands of marrying mulitple women and then giving them away to other men, then marrying more women, then I guess you might have a point.  Still, I'd bet that's something limited to the upper classes who can afford it. 

The point is that divorce and promiscuity have become an accepted part of American culture and American culture tends to spread.  These protestors, misguided though they may be for the most part, are right to oppose damaging foreign influences.

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A global culture that respects ignorance and stupidity is ultimately self-defeating.
  Sure, but who are you talking about? 
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Angel Eyes

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2007, 10:47:59 AM »
We're doing it now, too. I found this spoof video pretty darned funny. "Terrorist Bloopers"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w57JLmY5dmw

In a similar vein:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=PCRWtEnn238

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mustanger98

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2007, 10:57:04 AM »
Frankly, the whole "Valentine" thing has been just beaten into the ground.   What was at one time, a sappy sentiment, has become just another marketing juggernaut.

All it ever was in American culture is a sappy pink and red nightmare for people who need the greeting card industry to do their talking for them.

Do ya'll know where it came from before Roman Catholicism got ahold of it?

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2007, 10:59:14 AM »
Note that it is only unmarried girls of 12 giving birth that is their problem. 

No problem at all with getting hitched to that little gal and her two sisters and knocking them up all legal like.  rolleyes
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Dannyboy

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2007, 11:05:52 AM »
  Those are two cultures with ages in the thousands.  They've had their own fair share of promiscuity and divorce.

If you're talking about the custom in some Muslim lands of marrying mulitple women and then giving them away to other men, then marrying more women, then I guess you might have a point.  Still, I'd bet that's something limited to the upper classes who can afford it. 

The point is that divorce and promiscuity have become an accepted part of American culture and American culture tends to spread.  These protestors, misguided though they may be for the most part, are right to oppose damaging foreign influences.

My point was only that we did not export divorce and promiscuity.  Regardless of how prevalent it may be in our society, they've had the two far longer than we have.  No matter how prudish or uptight their societies are, it's disingenuous to say it's our fault.
Oh, Lord, please let me be as sanctimonious and self-righteous as those around me, so that I may fit in.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2007, 11:40:28 AM »
My point was only that we did not export divorce and promiscuity.  Regardless of how prevalent it may be in our society, they've had the two far longer than we have.  No matter how prudish or uptight their societies are, it's disingenuous to say it's our fault.

You don't have to agree with their position, but you're just making a caricature of it.  No one's claiming that we invented those two things or force anyone to do them.  When I say that we "export" them, I mean that people around the world are influenced by American film and television, which treats those things as normal and sometimes good.  Whatever the divorce or illegitimacy rates may be in India, our cultural influence isn't helping, in that particular.  Obviously, none of this really the fault of America itself or of Valentine's Day.  But it's understandable that they see it all as part of the same thing. 

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Note that it is only unmarried girls of 12 giving birth that is their problem. 

No problem at all with getting hitched to that little gal and her two sisters and knocking them up all legal like.

Carebear, I agree.  I will say, however, that a society that marries off twelve-year-olds is better than one in which teen-age girls routinely have non-marital sex and have abortions.  Of course, the sexually-active twelve year-olds may be an extreme example.
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Nightfall

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2007, 11:56:20 AM »
Quote from: fistful
I will say, however, that a society that marries off twelve-year-olds is better than one in which teen-age girls routinely have non-marital sex and have abortions.
Whoa. Two 17 year olds having sex is worse to you than a child being forced to marry a pedophile?  shocked
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2007, 12:10:56 PM »
Hehehe. Self-immolation. Beautiful!

mustanger98

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2007, 12:12:28 PM »
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Whoa. Two 17 year olds having sex is worse to you than a child being forced to marry a pedophile?

Ya'll ever notice how some people raise hell about one thing when it's really something else they're sore about? I think Nightfall's comment shows where the divide really is.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2007, 12:21:58 PM »
Quote from: fistful
I will say, however, that a society that marries off twelve-year-olds is better than one in which teen-age girls routinely have non-marital sex and have abortions.
Whoa. Two 17 year olds having sex is worse to you than a child being forced to marry a pedophile?  shocked

Who says they don't want to get married and who said anything about children?  We're talking about societies where girls expect this as a normal part of life.  And is a man a pedophile if his society expects him to marry young teenage girls and he does so?  I don't think it's a good idea, but it's a better idea than having sex with a girl without first committing yourself to take care of her and her offspring. 

To clarify, I'm not in favor of twelve-year-olds getting married.  I'm saying it is better for girls to marry too young than to give themselves to boys who may not really care about them.
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2007, 12:23:27 PM »
fistful's implosion continues...

Perd Hapley

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2007, 12:25:23 PM »
Yeah, I'm just a-goin' crazy here.

Truth be told, if I saw these guys on TV, burning innocent little Valentine cards, I'd think they looked a little silly.  But the issue they're really concerned about is no laughing matter.  Divorce and promiscuity (two problems that snowball on each other) are in many ways responsible for the problems most of us complain about on this forum.  And I don't think it's inconsequential that America is blamed for it.  We need to shape up, both for our own happiness and to have a better image in the world, which is useful to us as well.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2007, 12:42:26 PM »
Lighten up, Fistful.

"My heart is like a cabbage..."

OMG! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Nightfall

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Re: Muslim, Hindu hardliners protest valentine's day, burn greeting cards
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2007, 12:46:17 PM »
Quote from: fistful
Who says they don't want to get married...
I dont consider a child to be fully capable of deciding if she wants and is ready for a life time commitment.
Quote from: fistful
...and who said anything about children?
You said 12 year olds. I consider 12 year olds to be children.
Quote from: fistful
...is a man a pedophile if his society expects him to marry young teenage girls and he does so?
Well, if hes attracted to girls who are not yet developed, I would say so. I'll grant however, that attraction may not be a factor in these types of marriage.
Quote from: fistful
To clarify, I'm not in favor of twelve-year-olds getting married.  I'm saying it is better for girls to marry too young than to give themselves to boys who may not really care about them.
I guess well just have to disagree there. In my mind, making a child (who isnt developed enough to make an adult decision) marry an adult man (without her input none the less), is more heinous than a couple of teens having sex.
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