CO apartment complex bans guns

[Levant]

Are you saying two individuals can't enter into a contract wherein one agrees to voluntarily constrain his actions while at a certain place?

Yes, in the case of your home. That's an unenforceable contract because the landlord has no right to check for compliance.

Can two individuals enter into a contract requiring one of them to become a Muslim?  Can a landlord require that you surrender your 4th Amendment protections and allow the police to enter your home without a warrant?

[AZRedhawk44]

I wonder what is the relationship between the Douglas County Housing Partnership and Ross Management.  Perhaps the apartments receive a lot of HUD dollars?

Can you imagine the crime rate in an apartment complex that certifies all homes are without means of defense?

Yes, they are a HUD community.  And they got slapped in court.  This is over now, 2A won for being 2A.

Yes, in the case of your home. That's an unenforceable contract because the landlord has no right to check for compliance.

Can two individuals enter into a contract requiring one of them to become a Muslim?  Can a landlord require that you surrender your 4th Amendment protections and allow the police to enter your home without a warrant?

Disagree.  I believe that 2 or more adults can enter into any private contract as long as they are of sound mind and do so voluntarily.  In the case of the 4A protections mentioned above, it happens to hundreds of thousands of 18 year old college students every year when they live on university owned housing. 

[Tallpine]

Are you saying two individuals can't enter into a contract wherein one agrees to voluntarily constrain his actions while at a certain place?

There are "certain contracts" which are generally held to never be valid, even if both parties claim consent.

Funny though - the fed.gov gets away with military enlistment contracts 

[Perd Hapley]

Yes, in the case of your home. That's an unenforceable contract because the landlord has no right to check for compliance.

That may be true, by statute, but there's no legitimate reason why a lessor can't agree to searches.

Can two individuals enter into a contract requiring one of them to become a Muslim?  Can a landlord require that you surrender your 4th Amendment protections and allow the police to enter your home without a warrant?

On the first one, on what basis would you suggest that such a contract can't be made? And is that not a matter of one's religious freedom? One has a right to become a Muslim according to a contract, or any other legal, consensual means, yes? You seem to want to protect people from themselves by limiting their freedom of contract with landlords.

On the second question, can a tenant require a landlord to surrender his fourth amendment protections by allowing police to enter the leased property without a warrant?

[Levant]

Here's why you can't surrender your constitutional rights, even in a contract:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Constitution is supreme, even over tort law.

[Balog]

Here's why you can't surrender your constitutional rights, even in a contract:

The Constitution is supreme, even over tort law.

Yeah, that's not accurate. First because the Constitution sets limits on the Feds, not on private parties (Congress shall make no law concerning not no one shall ever agree to do). Second because that would eliminate virtually all business agreements, as they almost always require things from the individual (NDA's, non-competes, company rules about conduct etc) that the Feds would be prohibited from doing.

If what you're saying is true, then either the Feds would ahve the power to make a law banning wearing bikinis, or your employer would be prohibited from having a dress code that didn't allow you to wear a bikini to work.

[Tallpine]

Yeah, that's not accurate. First because the Constitution sets limits on the Feds, not on private parties (Congress shall make no law concerning not no one shall ever agree to do). Second because that would eliminate virtually all business agreements, as they almost always require things from the individual (NDA's, non-competes, company rules about conduct etc) that the Feds would be prohibited from doing.

If what you're saying is true, then either the Feds would ahve the power to make a law banning wearing bikinis, or your employer would be prohibited from having a dress code that didn't allow you to wear a bikini to work.

What if your employer had a dress code that required you to wear a bikini to work? 

[Balog]

What if your employer had a dress code that required you to wear a bikini to work? 

This is a violation of the Constitution, apparently.

[Levant]

Yeah, that's not accurate. First because the Constitution sets limits on the Feds, not on private parties (Congress shall make no law concerning not no one shall ever agree to do). Second because that would eliminate virtually all business agreements, as they almost always require things from the individual (NDA's, non-competes, company rules about conduct etc) that the Feds would be prohibited from doing.

If what you're saying is true, then either the Feds would ahve the power to make a law banning wearing bikinis, or your employer would be prohibited from having a dress code that didn't allow you to wear a bikini to work.

I wouldn't be surprised about a law about wearing bikinis.  But dress code is not in the enumerated powers so it would be unconstitutional. 

Nothing in the clause I quoted says anything about or like "Congress shall make no law".  It is difficult to debate the intent of the Constitution if you twist it and rearrange it.  Generally, the Constitution does as you say - it sets limits on the feds.  But the clause I quoted specifically limits the states and the courts.  The feds may only create laws within the power granted by the Constitution and when they do create laws within their power, federal law and the Constitution rule.  The order is:

Constitution
      |
Federal Law
      |
State Law
      |
Local Law
      |
Contracts


If anything further up the chain nullifies your case then your case is null.

Can two parties enter into an agreement making one the slave of another?

Can two parties enter into an agreement so that one works for the other at less than minimum wage?

[Tallpine]

This is a violation of the Constitution, apparently.

I'm not sure but I think we need to look at the question some more.

[Balog]

I wouldn't be surprised about a law about wearing bikinis.  But dress code is not in the enumerated powers so it would be unconstitutional. 

Nothing in the clause I quoted says anything about or like "Congress shall make no law".  It is difficult to debate the intent of the Constitution if you twist it and rearrange it.  Generally, the Constitution does as you say - it sets limits on the feds.  But the clause I quoted specifically limits the states and the courts.  The feds may only create laws within the power granted by the Constitution and when they do create laws within their power, federal law and the Constitution rule.  The order is:

Constitution
      |
Federal Law
      |
State Law
      |
Local Law
      |
Contracts


If anything further up the chain nullifies your case then your case is null.

Can two parties enter into an agreement making one the slave of another?

Can two parties enter into an agreement so that one works for the other at less than minimum wage?

That's silly. Nothing in the laws above contract prevent someone from voluntarily agreeing to be without arms. Your mistake is that you're referring to a section that says yo0u can't make an illegal contract, and then saying the contract is illegal by referencing a section of the BoR that doesn't apply to voluntary contracts.

[Levant]

That's silly. Nothing in the laws above contract prevent someone from voluntarily agreeing to be without arms. Your mistake is that you're referring to a section that says yo0u can't make an illegal contract, and then saying the contract is illegal by referencing a section of the BoR that doesn't apply to voluntary contracts.

I can volunteer to be without arms, you are correct.  Then I can decide I want arms and a landlord can't hold me to the contract.  Show me one case where it's been done successfully.  I can show you more than one where landlords failed in trying to ban guns.

Can I voluntarily sign a binding contract to be your slave?  Please answer the question.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

binding
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/90.243

http://reslife.wustl.edu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=145

and i threw many a person outa a soberhouse who was of legal age to drink  2 called the cops and our lease held up  broke the georgetown law students heart

[Balog]

I can volunteer to be without arms, you are correct.  Then I can decide I want arms and a landlord can't hold me to the contract.  Show me one case where it's been done successfully.  I can show you more than one where landlords failed in trying to ban guns.

Can I voluntarily sign a binding contract to be your slave?  Please answer the question.

Slavery is illegal. Not owning guns is not.

[Levant]

Slavery is illegal. Not owning guns is not.

Good point.  I'll accept that one.  But stand by the fact that no one has posted any examples where this has succeeded but we know of more than one where it has not.

[Balog]

Good point.  I'll accept that one.  But stand by the fact that no one has posted any examples where this has succeeded but we know of more than one where it has not.

As was alluded to earlier, almost every college dorm has such rules. A lot of halfway houses do as well. If it's unremarkable and not contested, there wouldn't be news stories about it to post now would there?

[Tallpine]

Can I voluntarily sign a binding contract to be your slave?

Not unless the "master" is the US Military.

[Balog]

If the Second Amendment prohibits contracts stipulating not being armed, the First prohibits NDA's and joining the clergy.