Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on January 01, 2012, 06:50:45 PM
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http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/01/park-ranger-shot-at-mount-rainier/
This is a developing story: a 34 year old ranger at Mt. Rainier National Park was killed at a roadblock in the park. The suspect is on foot and carrying a rifle. The ranger set up a roadblock after the suspect's car failed to pull over for a traffic stop.
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I would think that she had the upper hand, she could have positioned herself behind the engine block, wouldn't a Ranger also have a long gun?
Maybe he faked her out by acting like a lost/drunk tourist or something.
This could be that guy from Montana, iirc some militia guy got away from the cops up there or maybe its this guy http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=28041.msg548566;topicseen#msg548566
they never caught him either.
Condolences to family and friends of the Ranger, its not an LE job that you would expect to have to be all tactical & militaristic
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I had heard a ranger was shot, but I didn't know it was a woman and I didn't know it was fatal.
I hope they get the guy.
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wouldn't a Ranger also have a long gun
Not necessarily. Sometimes they are issued a long gun, sometimes not. Sometimes idiot administrators hamstring the officers vs. using common sense.
its not an LE job that you would expect to have to be all tactical & militaristic
Crazy people tend to come to parks. I don't know why.
NPS LE certified rangers are sent through a standardized 9 week Federal LE course at FLETC, so they are just like regular LEOs.
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The ranger is survived by two young daughters and her husband, another ranger assigned to the Park.
PS: The suspect apparently has been identified, has an assault rifle, and local media is pointing out that firearms in the Park were illegal prior to 2010.
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The suspects is a 24 year old white male with a buzzcut on his driver's license photo and had additional weapons, body armor and camping equipment in his car. It took 90 minutes to recover the body since the suspect was continuing to shoot at responding vehicles and rangers.
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They are now showing booking photos of the suspect in an orange jumpsuit, so he must have a record.
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The suspects is a 24 year old white male with a buzzcut on his driver's license photo and had additional weapons, body armor and camping equipment in his car. It took 90 minutes to recover the body since the suspect was continuing to shoot at responding vehicles and rangers.
The little *expletive deleted*it can't be carrying that much ammo......
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All the rangers I have met in this area carry a 10/22 for a long gun. It is just to dispatch rabid animals near people.
I'd want plenty of backup to set up a roadblock on an unknown foe. Or maybe she knew who it was from the shooting report and just gave it her all.
In either case she has my respect.
My thoughts go out to her family.
jim
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Napalm the AO
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The suspect is an Army veteran, with one deployment to Iraq in 2007-8. According to his wife, who filed for a protective order, he is suffering from PTSD, has an arsenal of guns and has threatened suicide. He is also a suspect in the shooting of four people in south Seattle seven hours prior to shooting the ranger.
This all started when the suspect blew past a checkpoint to check that you have tire chains for the snowy roads. Ms. Anderson, one of the Park's 15 LEO rangers, set up a roadblock and was shot through the windshield with a shotgun before she had exited her vehicle. The suspect then fled on foot and was firing at backup vehicles responding to the scene.
PS: Here is a photo of the suspect published in this morning's Seattle Times:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fseattletimes.nwsource.com%2FABPub%2F2012%2F01%2F01%2F2017142969.jpg&hash=6205760f2d085c8e5d45c3889754a05bd7505dd9)
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The ranger is survived by two young daughters and her husband, another ranger assigned to the Park.
PS: The suspect apparently has been identified, has an assault rifle, and local media is pointing out that firearms in the Park were illegal prior to 2010.
Because that would have stopped him.
Stop! No guns allowed!
Oh, okay....I'll go on my killing spree some where they're allowed.
:facepalm:
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local media is pointing out that firearms in the Park were illegal prior to 2010.
Now we need to make killing rangers illegal ;/
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Because that would have stopped him.
Stop! No guns allowed!
Oh, okay....I'll go on my killing spree some where they're allowed.
:facepalm:
Typical sloppy reporting. In fact, guns were NOT illegal prior to 2010. One was always able to transport firearms that were unloaded and in a case through most National Parks. I've done so when cutting through Yosemite to get to my fishing spots in the Eastern Sierra for the last ten years.
The 2010 law was of course mostly about CCW. From what I've seen, the ranger was killed with a shotgun. By, as Jamis points out, someone who would likely not be obeying any laws anyway -- especially if it turns out he was on the run for the Seattle shootings.
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Going to be interest to hear the rest of the story on this. Pictures of him show lots of gang tattoos which in of itself isn't a problem being in the military but if he was an active gang member then that is a whole other issue.
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This just in: the suspect has been found dead. No word yet on the circumstances of his death except to say that his body was found in a ditch not far from the site of the ranger shooting. It is not yet known if he died of exposure, suicide or by LEO, but there have been no reports of encounters or firefights with the suspect. I am thinking it was probably suicide.
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This just in: the suspect has been found dead. No word yet on the circumstances of his death except to say that his body was found in a ditch not far from the site of the ranger shooting. It is not yet known if he died of exposure, suicide or by LEO, but there have been no reports of encounters or firefights with the suspect. I am thinking it was probably suicide.
If this fact is true, good. Just saved the tax payers the cost of housing him til fried.
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If this fact is true, good. Just saved the tax payers the cost of housing him til fried.
This is true.
Sadly, he was a murderer, and gave guns and veterans a bad name.
Why don't these suicidal douchebags just kill them selves, as opposed to taking other innocent's lives.
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This is true.
Sadly, he was a murderer, and gave guns and veterans a bad name.
Why don't these suicidal douchebags just kill them selves, as opposed to taking other innocent's lives.
Actually the elements may have got him. Either way good riddance.
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Actually the elements may have got him. Either way good riddance.
http://news.yahoo.com/rainier-gunmans-body-might-found-191441433.html
MOUNT RAINIER NATIONAL PARK, Wash. (AP) — The body of an Iraq war veteran suspected in the slaying of a Mount Rainier National Park ranger was believed to have been found in chest-deep snow on Monday, authorities said.
I hope that the POS froze to death - it will be the last coolness that he ever felt, burning in Hell and all......
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Well, fondly remember that one year you could carry in a park. That and the fact that every Saiga 12 in this country just got $100 more expensive as the ban-o-meter ticked up.
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This just in: the suspect has been found dead. No word yet on the circumstances of his death except to say that his body was found in a ditch not far from the site of the ranger shooting. It is not yet known if he died of exposure, suicide or by LEO, but there have been no reports of encounters or firefights with the suspect. I am thinking it was probably suicide.
Very similar to an incident where the Hinsdale CO county sheriff was killed after setting up a road block to try to stop a couple of bank robbers. This was back around 1994 or 1995 ?
Only difference is that they never found the pair dead until spring.
It was way up on a high mountain pass, but not in a national park.
One could probably find something about that tragedy online ....
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From a BBC article:
Police said they had recovered his vehicle, which had weapons, body armour and survivalist gear inside.
Well, if they recover my vehicle they might would find 2 of the 3, assuming I did not have the good sense to take them with me. I love how every sorry bastard is an excuse to paint us all.
Let me write the article. Sick F&** who shot a lady for no good reason finally stopped wasting our oxygen by succumbing to the elements. We the editors can only hope it hurt. Ha Ha, the end.
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Well, fondly remember that one year you could carry in a park. That and the fact that every Saiga 12 in this country just got $100 more expensive as the ban-o-meter ticked up.
A good time to buy IzhMash stock?
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No, the ATF can ban import of them by decree, then the only value is to people that already have guns here.
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Ground teams have just reached the body. No wounds were found and the suspect's body was found half-buried in the snow dressed in a t-shirt and jeans. It was exposure that killed him.
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too bad thats too easy
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too bad thats too easy
Yea, but it still makes you smile just a little bit......
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From the Seattle Times: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017146937_ranger03m.html
Barnes had served in Iraq and was discharged from Ft. Lewis, according to Army spokesman Col. James Hutton. The mother of his child, in court child-custody documents filed in July, said she fears he suffered from PTSD and that he was angry, violent, suicidal and heavily armed.
Barnes was an Army private first class whose military service ended in the fall of 2009. He received a misconduct discharge at Fort Lewis (now Joint Base Lewis-McChord) after he was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol and improper transport of a privately owned weapon.
By then, he had served two years and seven months of active duty, according to Maj. Chris Ophardt, a spokesman for Joint Base Lewis-McChord.
So not a stellar military career, either. I noticed that one of his chest tattoos said 'Odin', so I wonder if he was into the white power scene.
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No, the ATF can ban import of them by decree, then the only value is to people that already have guns here.
No, they can't.
Congress has explicitly banned them from doing so.
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CBS news called him a "survivalist" ;/ ;/ ;/.
In 1972 I survived winter camping with the boy scouts better then this so called survivalist.
What a freaking jerk.
That being said, the park rangers need long guns and better training, though I would never want to be on the receiving end of a Saiga 12 gauge-I would think you need a modern military rifle to fight that off.
What is the range of a slug/buckshot out of a Saiga 12 gauge?
I'm imagining he got within 20 yrds and all she had was a pistol - she missed he didn't.
So he got good training for fighting but very little in survival.
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I should think his mindset and mental health are the first weaknesses to look to here, long before we judge his survival skills or SERE training. Without the PTSD and marital issues, he might have survived just fine.
'Course, without the PTSD and marital issues, he may not have been the subject of a manhunt.
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That being said, the park rangers need long guns and better training, though I would never want to be on the receiving end of a Saiga 12 gauge-I would think you need a modern military rifle to fight that off.
Better training is a major part of it, but some of that would have to include a basic reality check, even before all the tacticool stuff comes into play. I have a friend who is a police officer in Washington and a firearms trainer at the state academy. The park is not in his area (quite), but he has been in contact with the sheriff's office where all this went down. He said the ranger didn't expect any major issues. She didn't fully block the road when she set up her roadblock. The perp drove around her, turned around, and came out of his vehicle shooting. She was still sitting in the driver's seat and her sidearm never came out of the holster.
What's even worse (and must be VERY hard on her colleagues) is that she didn't die instantly. She was alive and talking to the SWAT team after she was shot, but the perp laid down enough covering fire that the rescue team couldn't get to her before she bled out and died. Too bad they couldn't have called in the Air Force for some close air support.
Basically, she was blindsided. There's so little serious crime in the national parks (especially off-season) that I'm sure she had no expectation she was confronting anything other than a park visitor who was too impatient to stop at the tire chain checkpoint.
Two years and seven months active duty and he was still a PFC, eh? Sheesh, I made PFC out of AIT -- which means after four months. I was only on active duty for two years and I made E5 in a year and a half. I knew one guy who made E6 (Sergeant, not Specialist) in a year and half.
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The Tacoma News Tribune reports that his MOS was in communications and that he had no special survival training while in the Army.
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So he got good training for fighting but very little in survival.
No amount of training will help someone if they're a total moron. I have seen a fellow at a security company who was sent to an expensive course in EOD.
Sending an unarmed security guard to train in EOD on the company dime? Dumb.
Sending an unarmed security guard who almost immediately forgot everything he learned to train in EOD on the company dime? A magnificient ball of dumb.
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The Tacoma News Tribune reports that his MOS was in communications and that he had no special survival training while in the Army.
Don't most of us learn "don't go out in December snow in a t-shirt" at the ripe age of seven?
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Don't most of us learn "don't go out in December snow in a t-shirt" at the ripe age of seven?
Well my daughter learned a little earlier then seven.
My wife had DVRed the news and was watching it when I came in earlier tonight. i was surprised when I heard a guy say, "He just shot her with a high powered rifle."
Surprised twice. One I had already heard about the shotgun and two he didn't call it an assault weapon.
jim
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The Tacoma News Tribune reports that his MOS was in communications and that he had no special survival training while in the Army.
Signal??
I betcha he simply had mental problems and his so called ptsd was already there before he ever joined the army.
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What's even worse (and must be VERY hard on her colleagues) is that she didn't die instantly. She was alive and talking to the SWAT team after she was shot, but the perp laid down enough covering fire that the rescue team couldn't get to her before she bled out and died. Too bad they couldn't have called in the Air Force for some close air support.
Not to go too far on the tacticool stuff, but I do have to wonder if a couple of smoke grenades accessible from the front seat of the car could have helped here. At least by making it harder for him to shoot at her again, and possibly by covering a SWAT medic's approach. An M79 (or M203 mounted to a patrol rifle) and a bandolier of tear gas grenades for it is more than I'd want to see the typical patrol officer carrying, (OTOH, park rangers and other rural LE where backup can take an hour or more aren't typical patrol officers) but not at all unreasonable for SWAT to have available to make their approach easier.
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If she was shot through the windshield of her park vehicle, and doing a snow-chain warning/check, and not a criminal/fugitive roadblock, I doubt any gear or training would have saved her.
(Shrug)
Maybe it's just the photo, but how a MAC-clone and the Saiga compare in size to him... besides any other issues, I wonder if a lifelong struggle with Napoleon-syndrome played a role.
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She was alive and talking to the SWAT team after she was shot,
Wait, they had a whole SWAT team who couldn't figure out suppressing fire?
Also, this highlightes the importance of every officer carrying a good trauma kit.
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Wait, they had a whole SWAT team who couldn't figure out suppressing fire?
Also, this highlightes the importance of every officer carrying a good trauma kit.
Well, I can see a scenario where they see/hear shots, and impacts in and around their AO, but don't know where they're coming from to lay down that suppression fire effectively. Seems to me this was a road, in the snow and woods, in mountainous foothill country. It seems to me the shooter had the triple advantage of initiative, cover/concealment, and the high ground.
I'm sure someone who's actually "been there/done that" can clarify, but I'd think that only crew served, or at least belt-fed weaponry really has the legs to suppress anything/anyone long enough to pull someone out of a car in a situation like that. And that's assuming you know where to aim.
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Wait, they had a whole SWAT team who couldn't figure out suppressing fire?
Also, this highlightes the importance of every officer carrying a good trauma kit.
It was the Pierce County SWAT team that responded, and they are based a good 70 miles away from the scene. There was initial backup by the Park rangers, then the Pierce County Sheriff and Washington State Patrol responded, and then SWAT, but Longmire and then halfway up the road to Paradise is a long ways from anywhere on very rural/mountain roads. I think she may already have been dead or close to it by the time SWAT was able to get there. Not so easy to do officer backup when the heavy artillery is so far away.
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Not so easy to do officer backup when the heavy artillery is so far away.
As was discovered not so long ago in Norway ...
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I'm sure someone who's actually "been there/done that" can clarify, but I'd think that only crew served, or at least belt-fed weaponry really has the legs to suppress anything/anyone long enough to pull someone out of a car in a situation like that. And that's assuming you know where to aim.
See why police need PKMs?
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Well, I can see a scenario where they see/hear shots, and impacts in and around their AO, but don't know where they're coming from to lay down that suppression fire effectively. Seems to me this was a road, in the snow and woods, in mountainous foothill country. It seems to me the shooter had the triple advantage of initiative, cover/concealment, and the high ground.
I'm sure someone who's actually "been there/done that" can clarify, but I'd think that only crew served, or at least belt-fed weaponry really has the legs to suppress anything/anyone long enough to pull someone out of a car in a situation like that. And that's assuming you know where to aim.
A couple trained riflemen with semi-automatic magazine fed rifles (AR15's) and 4-6 magazines each could suppress 1-2 gunmen quite easily if they know where to fire. I'm not real keen on the idea of LEO's being in the business of providing suppressive fire in all but the most dire situations. Without really knowing where the gunmen is (like just generally concealed on a hillside in the woods), you'd need several belt feds and probably some light arty, too (mortar, M203's).
I'd think that smoke and or tear gas would have the best multi-role benefit to a police department and could be used to effect to impede the fire of a gunman. Having easy access to armored vehicles would also facilitate an extraction.
You just can't train or prepare for every situation.
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To a finer point: "Not every scenario is survivable." We do our best, and sometimes the dice roll the other way.
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Any idea of the significance of the finger symbol tattoo? L-something?
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Any idea of the significance of the finger symbol tattoo? L-something?
Loser maybe? ;)
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The autopsy said that Mr. Barnes died of drowning and secondary hypothermia. The theory is that he became unconscious due to exposure and landed head-first in a stream. He was found on the streambank with his upper body in the water.
Also being reported this morning is a clever idea by the helicopter search teams. As the choppers found parties in the backcountry, they would give instructions via loudspeaker. But many people could not hear/understand the loudspeaker over the helicopter noise. So the crews were writing messages on the sides of paper coffee cups and then dropping the cups down on the campers below.
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The autopsy said that Mr. Barnes died of drowning and secondary hypothermia. The theory is that he became unconscious due to exposure and landed head-first in a stream. He was found on the streambank with his upper body in the water.
Couldn't have 'appened to a nicer bloke.
Also being reported this morning is a clever idea by the helicopter search teams. As the choppers found parties in the backcountry, they would give instructions via loudspeaker. But many people could not hear/understand the loudspeaker over the helicopter noise. So the crews were writing messages on the sides of paper coffee cups and then dropping the cups down on the campers below.
I guess that works better than glass Coke bottles.
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I guess that works better than glass Coke bottles.
You must be crazy. ;/
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You must be crazy. ;/
Are you saying I'm god-like?
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Are you saying I'm god-like?
Sure, because it's all your fault :P
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landed head-first in a stream. He was found on the streambank with his upper body in the water.
when he was a kid he fell and got his head stuck in a bucket, its how he got the PTSD.