Author Topic: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?  (Read 5508 times)

Desertdog

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What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
Court says challenge to 'discrimination' ban failed because dead voters not represented
By Bob Unruh
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74897


Maryland's highest court has endorsed Montgomery County's plans for coed restrooms and showers, concluding that a challenge to the new law had to fail because there were not enough signatures on the referendum petitions to represent dead voters.

Opponents of the law say they are reviewing their options for continuing their challenge to the extraordinary law that essentially leaves private homes and private clubs as the only locations where a person would not have the "right" to use the restroom or shower room designated for whatever gender that person feels on that given day.

"The court's ruling today is a loss for democracy, a loss for Montgomery County and a loss for common sense," said Dr. Ruth Jacobs, president of Maryland Citizens for a Responsible Government.

The organization has been fighting the law since it was adopted by the county board last year in its campaign for "nondiscrimination" against individuals with "gender identity" issues. In that effort, the county failed to provide an exemption from the "nondiscrimination" law for locations of shared nudity, such as restaurant restrooms, community swimming pool shower rooms. Nor are there exemptions for religious organizations.

The opinion from the state Court of Appeals overturned a decision by a judge who found that voters should be allowed to determine the future of the "discrimination" ban." The reasoning by the high court was available only through comments made during the hearing, since the actual court order is a terse two-paragraph demand that the circuit court order be overturned, and the "reasons" would "be stated in an opinion later to be filed."

Circuit Judge Robert A. Greenberg previously concluded Bill 23-07, approved by the county board and signed into law by county executive Isiah Leggett, should be on the November ballot for voters, despite the wishes of Equality Maryland, an activist group for homosexuals, which did not want voters to have their say.

But the higher court's ruling left its opponents stunned.

"The court ruled & that the [Board of Elections] should have included 'inactive voters' when calculating the number of signatures that were required to place the issue on the ballot. Months after the deadline for turning in signatures, the court increased the number of valid signatures required from 25,001 signatures to over 27,000," the organization said, including the emphasis in its prepared statement.

Inactive voters are those who have failed to vote in two elections and have not responded to two letters from the government. Most are either dead or have moved out of state.

"We're very disappointed with this court's ruling, which suggests that, in America, every citizen does not have a voice," said Amy Smith, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, which was working with MCRG. "[The] court decision sends a clear message that groups with narrow, extreme political agendas can disenfranchise the voters of an entire county."

Jacobs said the citizens' group collected more than the number of signatures set by the county for the referendum.

"Amazingly, Equality Maryland demanded that inactive voters who have likely died or moved out of state be considered in the calculation to determine the number of valid signatures needed. This simply demonstrates that they will go to any lengths to prevent living, breathing county residents from determining public policy," Jacobs said.

The MRCG said Bill 23-07 specifically orders no discrimination based on "gender perception" in all "public accommodations."

"The existing non-discrimination code, which Bill 23-07 amends, was written over 20 years ago. The existing non-discrimination code desegregated bathrooms, buses, restaurants and all kinds of public accommodations. Montgomery County points at the 'distinctly private and personal' existing part of the code (which precedes Bill 23-07 by 20 years) and implies that it somehow was written with bathrooms in mind," an analysis by the organization said.

MCRG documented the law defines gender identity as "an individual's actual or perceived gender, including a person's gender-related appearance, expression, image, identity, or behavior, whether or not those gender related characteristics differ from the characteristics customarily associated with the person's assigned sex at birth."

"This means that a male appearing as or perceiving he is a female, regardless of his DNA, anatomy, and chromosomal makeup, could gain the legal right to call himself a woman, and use the woman's facility in any public accommodation," the group said.

The group further argued the law could violate the privacy rights of the county's 500,000 women and children, since the county's public accommodations code would be revised to read:

"An & agent & of any place of public accommodation in the county must not, with respect to the accommodation: & make any distinction with respect to & race, color, sex, marital status, religious creed, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, or gender identity in connection with & use of any facility," the organization said.

Jordan Lorence, a senior counsel with the ADF, told WND the next step in the case is being assessed right now. He said the high court allowed the pro-homosexual activists to participate in oral arguments, but there were no arguments presented from those who oppose the special-rights law.

Jacobs told WND the right of voters to "act as a check-and-balance on their government has been thwarted."

Not only was the number of signatures changed after the fact, a deadline for complaints to be filed about the referendum process apparently was ignored by the court, officials said.

WND previously reported county officials approved the sprawling expansion of their anti-"discrimination" law, sponsored by county council member Duchy Trachtenberg, D-At Large.

County officials have told WND they have interpreted the law to mean that showers and restrooms would be excluded.

But Theresa Rickman, a founding MCRG member, argues, "With all due respect, if one accepts the council's assertion that the 'gender identity' law does not cover bathrooms, one would also have to accept that the county's public accommodations code never intended to racially desegregate bathrooms. Race and gender identity are both listed in the same sentence."

WND also has reported on the implementation of a similar plan in Colorado that would encompass the entire state. Critics have accused Gov. Bill Ritter of paying off wealthy homosexual political supporters with his decision to sign the plan into law.

The Maryland pro-family organization also has publicized a YouTube video that shows an assistant to Trachtenberg apparently trying to intimidate petition signature collectors and would-be signers.

The video shows the person telling volunteers, "An e-mail went out; you're going to be asked to leave. Any petitions gathered today are illegal."


The video is at the end of the page, not at a location I could copy and paste.  It so short that you can barely mafe out what is said.




Manedwolf

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I can tell you what the result will be.

Any public pool female shower room will have older male perverts going into them, to look at either women in general or just young girls. They will be completely unusable.

Ladies' rooms will have the same sorts prowling around and peeking through the stall edges.

Bunch of absolute and complete morons.

Desertdog

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I hope they can vote those judges off the bench.

De Selby

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
What do you know-WorldNetDaily so totally distorts another story that it's impossible for folks who've read of the legislation in another source to even realize that WND is talking about the same thing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/13/AR2007111301196.html

It was a bill about housing and employment discrimination-not bathrooms, a proposal that was specifically rejected in drafting the thing.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Desertdog

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
This post is no about the law itself, but about the fact that the Maryland's highest court has endorsed Montgomery County's plans for coed restrooms and showers, concluding that a challenge to the new law had to fail because there were not enough signatures on the referendum petitions to represent dead voters.

De Selby

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
This post is no about the law itself, but about the fact that the Maryland's highest court has endorsed Montgomery County's plans for coed restrooms and showers, concluding that a challenge to the new law had to fail because there were not enough signatures on the referendum petitions to represent dead voters.

There is no plan for co-ed restrooms and showers-that is a phoney charge by WND.  Totally invented from whole cloth in order to fan flames of opposition to a bill that prevents housing and employment discrimination, not to end separate sex restrooms, which was an idea specifically debated and rejected by the Council.

The World Net Daily article you have there is referencing the exact same law described in the Washington Post-it is not a bill about restrooms, has nothing to do with restrooms, and the idea of opposite-sex restrooms was specifically rejected in passing it. 

WND sold you the brooklyn bridge, in other words.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Desertdog

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Keep it on topic.  This post is about  the fact that the Maryland's highest court has endorsed Montgomery County's plans for coed restrooms and showers, concluding that a challenge to the new law had to fail because there were not enough signatures on the referendum petitions to represent dead voters.,
irregardless of the facts of the oiginal law.

De Selby

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Keep it on topic.  This post is about  the fact that the Maryland's highest court has endorsed Montgomery County's plans for coed restrooms and showers, concluding that a challenge to the new law had to fail because there were not enough signatures on the referendum petitions to represent dead voters.,
irregardless of the facts of the oiginal law.


Yeah, the problem is that the Court didn't do that-the high court shot down a challenge to the law against discrimination in employment and housing based on voting law.

There is no law or plan for co-ed restrooms.   I'm sorry to report that (because I know you are invested in the WND story, not because I think it should be the case), but no such law exists-the law referred to in WND is about employment and housing, not restrooms. 

WND made that part up-the Court never ruled on restrooms, because they were never an issue in the law or the rulings.

Here's the ruling:

http://mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2008/61a08pc.pdf

And here's the opinion that it reversed:

http://www.telladf.org/UserDocs/MCBEDecision.pdf

Notice the complete and total lack of any discussion of co-ed restrooms.

WND faked the story, plain and simple.  If they actually read the opinions and the law first, they did so on purpose, but I don't know how they get their information, so I can't say whether or not they are simply negligent or intentionally misleading.
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

The Annoyed Man

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
world nut fibbed?!  say it ain't so!

Stand_watie

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Keep it on topic.  This post is about  the fact that the Maryland's highest court has endorsed Montgomery County's plans for coed restrooms and showers, concluding that a challenge to the new law had to fail because there were not enough signatures on the referendum petitions to represent dead voters.,
irregardless of the facts of the oiginal law.


WND made that part up-the Court never ruled on restrooms, because they were never an issue in the law or the rulings.

....
WND faked the story, plain and simple.  If they actually read the opinions and the law first, they did so on purpose, but I don't know how they get their information, so I can't say whether or not they are simply negligent or intentionally misleading.

Here's the link to the text of the law.

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/council/pdf/bill/2007/23-07.pdf

The portion of the law the MCRG found objectionable was 27-11 c

***
111 [[(c) A person must not deny any person access to the equal use of any
112 restroom, shower, dressing room, locker room, or similar facility
113 associated with the gender identity that the person publicly or
114 exclusively expresses or asserts.]]
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Stand_watie

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Section 27 19 also adresses bathrooms:

27-19. Discriminatory employment practices.
......
256 (1) For an employer:
257 * * *
258 [[(C) deny any person access to the equal use of any restroom,
259 shower, dressing room, locker room, or similar facility
260 associated with the gender identity that the person publicly
261 or exclusively expresses or asserts.]]
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De Selby

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Section 27 19 also adresses bathrooms:

27-19. Discriminatory employment practices.
......
256 (1) For an employer:
257 * * *
258 [[(C) deny any person access to the equal use of any restroom,
259 shower, dressing room, locker room, or similar facility
260 associated with the gender identity that the person publicly
261 or exclusively expresses or asserts.]]

Yeah, if you read the WaPo article, you'll see that the brackets are there to denote that the requested language was specifically excluded (that's usually what brackets mean in these sorts of drafts)

And as it would be...that fact is at the very beginning of the document.  Note the meaning given to "double brackets" on the first page:

"Deleted from existing law or the bill by amendment."
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Stand_watie

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Section 27 19 also adresses bathrooms:

27-19. Discriminatory employment practices.
......
256 (1) For an employer:
257 * * *
258 [[(C) deny any person access to the equal use of any restroom,
259 shower, dressing room, locker room, or similar facility
260 associated with the gender identity that the person publicly
261 or exclusively expresses or asserts.]]

Yeah, if you read the WaPo article, you'll see that the brackets are there to denote that the requested language was specifically excluded (that's usually what brackets mean in these sorts of drafts)

And as it would be...that fact is at the very beginning of the document.  Note the meaning given to "double brackets" on the first page:

"Deleted from existing law or the bill by amendment."

You're right. I missed the definitions. I'm used to amendments/deletions indicated in the body of bill.
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RevDisk

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »

One wonders.   Why the heck is anyone reading, let alone quoting, let alone posting, WND articles?   I may be mistaken, but of the (admitly few) articles I've read, the majority were fabricated or misleading enough to be considered fabrications.   I'd love to hear the viewpoint of a WND reader and supporter who could prove me wrong. 




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RevDisk

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
How does government have any jurisdiction over what happens between men and women?

I thought this was America.

Since the first days of our country, the government has stuck its nose in any business between two consenting adults it could.  Gotta police morality, you know.  Some folks like it because they know better than you do how to manage your life.   Others like it for religious reasons.  Others just like being busybodies.

It's given us Prohibition, the War on Drugs, government monopoly on marriage, etc etc.  All to wonderful success, of course.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Since the first days of our country, the government has stuck its nose in any business between two consenting adults it could.

Dude, seriously.   rolleyes

Quote
government monopoly on marriage
Huh? 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
Quote
Dude, seriously.   rolleyes

This is NOT true?

Do you know WHEN bans on sodomy started being struck down?
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I don't like anti-sodomy laws, either, but they hardly constitute total govt. control over "any business between two consenting adults."  Sure you can find all kinds of intrusive laws in America's past (or present), but it's never been a Taliban state over here. 

MB, I thought you liked America because it's more free than other places.  RevDisk is talking as if it were the world capitol of intrusive statism. 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I don't think anybody says it is, you're just reading it in.

I don't think that there's been ever a period in US History when the government operated on the "Okay, long as both of you are of maturity age, and both of you agree, whatever you do behind closed doors is okay."

There's been anti-prostitution, anti-sodomy, anti-premarital-sex laws since days Colonial.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Manedwolf

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I don't like anti-sodomy laws, either, but they hardly constitute total govt. control over "any business between two consenting adults."  Sure you can find all kinds of intrusive laws in America's past (or present), but it's never been a Taliban state over here. 

MB, I thought you liked America because it's more free than other places.  RevDisk is talking as if it were the world capitol of intrusive statism. 

Some more laws on public behavior would not be remiss. There's a lot of people who have no sense of what is and isn't appropriate in public anymore, it seems. It's a shame that adults need codified guidelines, but it seems like more and more people do.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
In answer to the original post, I think it's kinda like how the Lib's want to "estimate" the numbers of inner city residents during the census in order to skew the numbers to benefit them. Evidently, they found a judge who supports them. If it were Chicago, the dead people would have actually signed the petitions.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I don't think anybody says it is, you're just reading it in.   

No, I'm not reading anything into his statement that ain't there.  He said what he said.  He's describing the U.S. as if it were a totalitarian regime.

Quote

I don't think that there's been ever a period in US History when the government operated on the "Okay, long as both of you are of maturity age, and both of you agree, whatever you do behind closed doors is okay."

There's been anti-prostitution, anti-sodomy, anti-premarital-sex laws since days Colonial.

You mean the U.S. has never been a perfect, Libertarian Utopia?  You mean we've always had laws that were overly-intrusive in sexual matters, as well as in many other areas?  I am shocked.  Still, I wouldn't state things quite the way you did.  We don't have one "the government" here.  Generally speaking, our national govt. has ignored sexual matters, leaving such things to the state and local governments.  It would be more correct to say that state and local government has often prohibited prostitution and sodomy, although I'm not sure to what extent premarital sex has been regulated.  I can't think of any such laws, off-hand. 

But why are we even discussing this?  This thread has nothing to do with "behavior between consenting adults."  Undecided (PaddyRileyMC) brought that up, because he has trouble staying on topic, and is generally a fruitcake. 

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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
OP seems to have fled the scene.
Look, tiny text!

roo_ster

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
I don't think anybody says it is, you're just reading it in.

I don't think that there's been ever a period in US History when the government operated on the "Okay, long as both of you are of maturity age, and both of you agree, whatever you do behind closed doors is okay."

There's been anti-prostitution, anti-sodomy, anti-premarital-sex laws since days Colonial.

And that is as it ought to be in a federal system.  If I don;t like the local rules, I move my tuckus elsewhere.

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Sergeant Bob

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Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2005, 10:18:52 PM »
OP seems to have fled the scene.

So why should he hang around? Nobody was willing to address the topic he posted anyways.

Re: What do dead voters have to do with coed restrooms?
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G