Iraq War over

[Fitz]

How would we feel if the Chinese came in and shot/hung all the IRS and ATF agents 

 

Ask me that question when the IRS and ATF drain marshes and force an entire culture into starvation, gas their own people en-masse, and murder dissidents.

[Perd Hapley]

How would we feel if the Chinese came in and shot/hung all the IRS and ATF agents  

 

That their methods were a bit extreme, but we agree with the overall goal?

[Tallpine]

Ask me that question when the IRS and ATF drain marshes and force an entire culture into starvation, gas their own people en-masse, and murder dissidents.

Waco ... 

[Tallpine]

That their methods were a bit extreme, but we agree with the overall goal?

Ok, so you welcome our new overlords 

[Fitz]

A rare, relatively isolated occurance != a continued pattern of brutality and murder


If i add this smiley, does my opinion have more weight?

 

I get what you're saying... but come on dude. The US isn't even comparible

[Fitz]

I'd also like to point out that publicly disagreeing with administration policy on teh interwebz would be a very different prospect in a saddam-led iraq than it is here in the US

[Tallpine]

I'd also like to point out that publicly disagreeing with administration policy on teh interwebz would be a very different prospect in a saddam-led iraq than it is here in the US

Yeah, he was a certified bad guy.

Also, a US ally at one time.  Didn't we sell him the gas that was used on the Kurds...?

[Fitz]

So, the fact that a previous administration made some huge errors means we should not attempt to rectify them?

By that logic, any nation we've ever previously had a relationship with is forever immune to consequences when they do terrible things

[Tallpine]

So, the fact that a previous administration made some huge errors means we should not attempt to rectify them?

By that logic, any nation we've ever previously had a relationship with is forever immune to consequences when they do terrible things

That's what administrations do, make huge errors 

Anyway, I am glad the most of our folks are out of harm's way now.

[Monkeyleg]

Was it an error when we were involved in a cold war? It's akin to being allied with Pakistan now, despite the fact that they're not really our friends, but we need them (maybe).

[wmenorr67]

Was it an error when we were involved in a cold war? It's akin to being allied with Pakistan now, despite the fact that they're not really our friends, but we need them (maybe).

You know the saying about keeping friends close and enemies closer.

[Monkeyleg]

You know the saying about keeping friends close and enemies closer.

Yeah, but you do that and some guy gives you an orange, you wind up standing with him in a bar, and then some wiseguys try to strangle you.

[MicroBalrog]

How would we feel if the Chinese came in and shot/hung all the IRS and ATF agents 

 

How do you feel about France's participation in the War of Independence?

[Tallpine]

How do you feel about France's participation in the War of Independence?

I don't get the connection ... had the Kurds declared independence

[TommyGunn]

Yeah, he was a certified bad guy.

Also, a US ally at one time.  Didn't we sell him the gas that was used on the Kurds...?

According to SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)
America provided 1% of Iraq's Weapons.
57%, the majority were provided by the former Soviet Union.  The next highest was France at 13% followed by China at 12%.  Brazil, astoundingly, sold them 2% or twice what we did.  BTW, Libya tied with us at 1%
I don't recall, specifically, who sold Iraq the gas he used on the Kurds, but IIRC it is essentially concentrated insecticide and is not difficult to make at all.  I think we may have provided a "precursor product."  


Aliiances -- shockingly -- change.  In WW1 we were allied with Italy, then we fought Italy in WW2 until it surrendered.  We were ostensibly allied with the USSR during WW2 as well and look how fast THAT changed when the Nazis went belly-up.  

[seeker_two]

How do you feel about France's participation in the War of Independence?

Do you think France participated because they wanted to see the US as an independent nation?.....or because they had a national interest in weakening England?......


Intent means a lot.....

[Perd Hapley]

According to SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute)
America provided 1% of Iraq's Weapons.
57%, the majority were provided by the former Soviet Union.  The next highest was France at 13% followed by China at 12%.  Brazil, astoundingly, sold them 2% or twice what we did.  BTW, Libya tied with us at 1%
I don't recall, specifically, who sold Iraq the gas he used on the Kurds, but IIRC it is essentially concentrated insecticide and is not difficult to make at all.  I think we may have provided a "precursor product."  


Aliiances -- shockingly -- change.  In WW1 we were allied with Italy, then we fought Italy in WW2 until it surrendered.  We were ostensibly allied with the USSR during WW2 as well and look how fast THAT changed when the Nazis went belly-up.  

Don't be realistic, dude. It ruins all the fun.

[wmenorr67]

How do you feel about France's participation in the War of Independence?

And we have re-paid that debt over and over and over and over and.....................

[Perd Hapley]

1. It is a pleasant surprise for us that the Americans are leaving. God willing, things will be better because the Americans are the only excuse that the terrorist groups, Al Qaeda and the others, have to continue. They are behind all the sectarian conflicts.

Eh, not so much.

[MicroBalrog]

Do you think France participated because they wanted to see the US as an independent nation?.....or because they had a national interest in weakening England?......


Intent means a lot.....

Yes, and?

The fact of the matter is, if France and Holland were led by non-interventionists, there'd be no Constitution, no American independence, no individual liberty.  Interventionism does have it's shining successes.

[Tallpine]

Aliiances -- shockingly -- change.  In WW1 we were allied with Italy, then we fought Italy in WW2 until it surrendered.  We were ostensibly allied with the USSR during WW2 as well and look how fast THAT changed when the Nazis went belly-up. 

Beware of foreign entanglements 

[TommyGunn]

Beware of foreign entanglements 

How about "Beware of foreign wars?" 
However, had we not fought the nazis, the european continent might now be ruled by some incrdibly nasty thugs.  And I have no desire to guess how far out their influence would have spread since 1945.
What is meant by "entanglement" anyway?  No trade with other countries?     Nah, I don't think so.
Not so long after 1776 we went after the Barbary Pirates, and then there was the War of 1812.....we weren't exactly well prepared for THAT war. Was it a "foreign entanglement?"  How about the Barbary Wars?

If we were never to ally ourselves with a country in need, as was Britain in 1941, what kind of ally would we be?  And remember; two can play that game.  What would happen should we wind up in need of another country's assistance in the future?  Would they not recall the last time they needed our help and we'd responded; "sorry, some dead white guys who founded America warned us about foreign entanglements, so you're on your own."  What then?

I think that philosophy might have worked in 1776.   But I have serious questions about it working well now.

It is impossible for a republic to remain long in the quiet enjoyment of her freedom within her limited confines, for even if she does not molest others, others will molest her, and from being thus molested will spring the desire and the necessity of conquests.

I suspect the Grand Master of Dirty Politics probably would agree..........

[Tallpine]

What is meant by "entanglement" anyway?

GW explained it pretty well.

[MechAg94]

Beware of foreign entanglements 

And apparently never ever sell any guns and ammo overseas for fear it may one day some future decade from now be used against us. 

[Josh Aston]

Anyway, I am glad the most of our folks are out of harm's way now.

Honestly, I'm not.  It's going to be much worse next time.  And there will be a next time.