Habersham County Sheriffs: killing pastors and burning babies

[zxcvbob]

First news update I've seen about the baby:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/23/toddler-injured-flash-grenade-drug-raid/11254289/

[Scout26]

Right, although there probably some sort of middle ground between burning down the neighborhood and evicting everyone until bubba runs out of water and either offs himself or gives up and comes out.

Cutting off power and water usually results in the alleged giving up within 24 hours.   Rarely will they make to 48.  People have to sleep sometime. 

[cordex]

Cutting off power and water usually results in the alleged giving up within 24 hours.   Rarely will they make to 48.  People have to sleep sometime. 

Sure, there are options available outside of Tommy Tactical storming the fort, but if someone gets to the point that they are cranking off rounds at passers by or cops in my neighborhood, I no longer particularly care about preserving their life.  It isn't worth 24 to 48 hours of my family and a dozen or two of our neighbors being dispossessed and forced into hotels (or your parents' couch if they'll let me!) to soft-touch the wannabe sniper.  If we're going to outfit and pay for a bunch of paramilitary cops, that's exactly the kind of scenario that they exist for.

That said, if the locals lacked a SWAT/ERT type team, waiting the jackwagon out seems reasonable.

[KD5NRH]

Sure, there are options available outside of Tommy Tactical storming the fort, but if someone gets to the point that they are cranking off rounds at passers by or cops in my neighborhood, I no longer particularly care about preserving their life.  It isn't worth 24 to 48 hours of my family and a dozen or two of our neighbors being dispossessed and forced into hotels (or your parents' couch if they'll let me!) to soft-touch the wannabe sniper.  If we're going to outfit and pay for a bunch of paramilitary cops, that's exactly the kind of scenario that they exist for.

Doesn't take a SWAT team or a bunch of fancy crap.  See "killdozer."  Add a slit for a rifle, and one officer with a semiauto .308 can deal with a holed up redneck whose "cover" is a standard residential exterior wall.

[cordex]

Doesn't take a SWAT team or a bunch of fancy crap.  See "killdozer."  Add a slit for a rifle, and one officer with a semiauto .308 can deal with a holed up redneck whose "cover" is a standard residential exterior wall.

[brimic]

Doesn't take a SWAT team or a bunch of fancy crap.  See "killdozer."  Add a slit for a rifle, and one officer with a semiauto .308 can deal with a holed up redneck whose "cover" is a standard residential exterior wall.

Well a swat killdozer would need about $300 worth if tactical flat black spray paint applied to it before cops would feel comfortable using it-its their gang color.

[KD5NRH]

The original killdozer took out a good chunk of a town.  You don't think it could deal with one bozo in a house?

[cordex]

The original killdozer took out a good chunk of a town.  You don't think it could deal with one bozo in a house?

No ... not arguing that.  Just trying to figure out if you think that is really a better way to go than a SWAT team.  I mean, a SMAW would work too, but that probably isn't the best solution, or the most flexible for other scenarios.

Although, the way things are going these days there'll be a good chance that your local SWATties will have an armored vehicle too.  So there's that.

[tokugawa]

Although, the way things are going these days there'll be a good chance that your local SWATties will have an armored vehicle too.  So there's that.

 I have on good authority those soon to be retired A-10's are going to go to metro police depts.


 Just joking. sort of. Maybe some of you remember the BATF trying to get hold of the surplussed OV 10 Bronco's, I think it was in the eighties.

[cordex]

I have on good authority those soon to be retired A-10's are going to go to metro police depts.

But they will be free!

[KD5NRH]

No ... not arguing that.  Just trying to figure out if you think that is really a better way to go than a SWAT team.  I mean, a SMAW would work too, but that probably isn't the best solution, or the most flexible for other scenarios.

Bulldozers are relatively cheap and easy to maintain, and have lots of other uses for a municipality.  They're also not particularly glamorous, so less conducive to the tacticool mentality.

[cordex]

Bulldozers are relatively cheap and easy to maintain, and have lots of other uses for a municipality.  They're also not particularly glamorous, so less conducive to the tacticool mentality.

Are bulldozers really all that cheap and easy to maintain?  Also, pretty sure maintenance becomes more of an issue as you up-armor a vehicle.  Plus, the added armor would necessarily result in drastically reduced visibility, thus limiting the killdozer's usability in other roles.

As to glamour ... eh ... paint it flat black and put SVAT (Special Vehicles And Tactics) on the side and it'll be almost as glamorous as the rest of the armored trucks cops are getting.

[Hawkmoon]

Are bulldozers really all that cheap and easy to maintain?  Also, pretty sure maintenance becomes more of an issue as you up-armor a vehicle.  Plus, the added armor would necessarily result in drastically reduced visibility, thus limiting the killdozer's usability in other roles.

Hey, a bulldozer worked for John Wayne in one of his WW2 flicks. Was it Fighting Seabees? Don't remember the title, just vague recollections of The Duke single-handedly fighting off the entire Japanese army with a bulldozer (and maybe a 1911).

[KD5NRH]

As to glamour ... eh ... paint it flat black and put SVAT (Special Vehicles And Tactics) on the side and it'll be almost as glamorous as the rest of the armored trucks cops are getting.

Aha!  The cure for tacticool!  We need a Federal mandate that all milsurp hardware in the hands of police departments be painted and maintained in a tasteful shade of baby pink, with teddy bear and daisy graphics. 

[roo_ster]

Aha!  The cure for tacticool!  We need a Federal mandate that all milsurp hardware in the hands of police departments be painted and maintained in a tasteful shade of baby pink, with teddy bear and daisy graphics. 

My daughter could work that gig. 

[Ben]

Aha!  The cure for tacticool!  We need a Federal mandate that all milsurp hardware in the hands of police departments be painted and maintained in a tasteful shade of baby pink, with teddy bear and daisy graphics. 

Though you're joking, I believe that would really be a "cure" for a lot of the militarization of both personnel and assets in law enforcement. Perhaps not pink with flowers, :) , but I believe there is a big psychological factor to appearance that affects both LE and those they serve. There's a big difference between how we perceive the Andy Griffith type of cop in a khaki "business casual" uniform that includes a tie, and "Joe Armored Tacticool".  I certainly wouldn't want to constrain LE in the field to office dress attire and shoes, but dressing them in EMS type of clothing and color (though some of that is getting pretty tactical as well) would, I believe, considerably change perception, and perhaps, attitude. The same with the equipment they use and vehicles they drive. I believe a lot of European police departments choose non-intimidating colors and design for their uniforms and vehicles.

[KD5NRH]

Though you're joking, I believe that would really be a "cure" for a lot of the militarization of both personnel and assets in law enforcement. Perhaps not pink with flowers, :) , but I believe there is a big psychological factor to appearance that affects both LE and those they serve. There's a big difference between how we perceive the Andy Griffith type of cop in a khaki "business casual" uniform that includes a tie, and "Joe Armored Tacticool".

I wouldn't recommend a tie in the field, but I can tell you that there's a huge difference in perception between the TXDPS "Texas Tan" uniforms or many sheriffs' lighter khaki, and virtually all local PD's "blue" black uniforms.  That also seems to translate at least somewhat to their attitudes, though I suspect it's more of a reflection of the hiring and training policies of the person(s) who chose the uniforms.

[onions!]

I wouldn't recommend a tie in the field,

I thought that cops wore clip ons?

I agree on the uniform argument.I'd add that a less tactical cop *might*have less of a "us vs.them"attitude as well.

[fifth_column]

I suspect the uniforms are a result of the attitude, not vice versa.  Those batman belts just don't go with beige . . .

[cordex]

I thought that cops wore clip ons?

They do.

Aha!  The cure for tacticool!  We need a Federal mandate that all milsurp hardware in the hands of police departments be painted and maintained in a tasteful shade of baby pink, with teddy bear and daisy graphics. 

Not a terrible idea.  Tactical teams could wear all white with lace trim.

[Doggy Daddy]

Not a terrible idea.  Tactical teams could wear all white with lace trim.

Lace 'n' Mace!!   

[DustinD]

Apparently some updates:   swat-threw-stun-grenade-ino-toddlers-crib-refuse-pay-medical-bills

[Tallpine]

I'm not making any suggestions of course, but it's somewhat coincidental that the following thread is right above this one at this moment:

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=45414.0

[Regolith]

Refusing to pay now means they're going to pay a LOT more once the civil suit is finished...I'd imagine that their attorney is taking that one on contingency.