Author Topic: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped  (Read 7940 times)

vaskidmark

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TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« on: March 16, 2011, 09:48:43 AM »
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/travel/2014428369_webtsasearches08.html

Quote
"A lady in a TSA uniform came over, put on her rubber gloves and went up and down the rows of seats, choosing bags to go through," said Morrison, a retired corporate recruiter who lives in Seattle. "She didn't identify herself, didn't give a reason for the search. She seemed to be targeting larger carry-on bags."

Morrison was stunned. She expected to be screened at the designated checkpoint area, or maybe at the gate, where the Transportation Security Administration sometimes randomly checks passengers as they board. This was different. "To me, it just felt like an illegal search performed by a police state," she said.

Quote
At least one other reader also reported the roaming searches described by Morrison, also in Seattle. Christine Porter says she witnessed an identical procedure on two separate occasions. "TSA now randomly appears at boarding gates to check boarding passes and IDs as well as potentially hand-search carry-on luggage," she said. "It's irritating."

Quote
The TSA has also indicated that it wants to move the perimeter of aviation security screening beyond the airport, to checkpoints on the road, according to Chris Calabrese, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union. If these roving searches are tolerated within the terminal and are allowed to jump to the street, there's no telling what might come next. Conceivably, in the near future the TSA could set up roadblocks to randomly screen automobiles anywhere it pleases.

First they came for the nailclippers, But I did not complain because I bite my nails.
Then they came for the shampoo,  But I did not complain because I use hotel soap to wash my hair.
Next they came for the water bottles, But I did not complain because I take lasix and pee too much anyhow.
Then they put their hands down in peoples' pants, But I did not complain - what's a cheap thrill between friends?
Now they want to search my car before I get out of my driveway, And there's nobody to complain because we're all standing next to our cars in our underwear.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 09:55:43 AM »
somewhere on the perimeter road around hear is a "subject to search" warning. similar to the one at a military base entrance
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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vaskidmark

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 10:05:17 AM »
somewhere on the perimeter road around hear is a "subject to search" warning. similar to the one at a military base entrance

Is that one of those notices that says once you enter the perimeter you are subject to search?  Or is it notice that you are subject to search on the perimeter road?

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 10:09:51 AM »
the ones i remember were a warning that by entering you consent to being searched
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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PTK

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 10:18:28 AM »
.....and they think this will end pleasantly?
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

RevDisk

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 10:35:20 AM »
If you're not getting on an aircraft, just say "Warrant, please."  If they refuse, politely ask to leave.  If they refuse to let you go, call the cops and report an unlawful detention.  If the cops don't wish to be involved, take down everyone's name, badge numbers (if applicable), witness names (plus contact info), and ask for supervisors.  Then sue.

Not terribly hard.
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Seenterman

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 10:40:18 AM »
The TSA has gone from being a laughing stock of a security agency to one of the greatest threat to the Constitution.

Amazing how times have changed.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 11:27:12 AM »
If you're not getting on an aircraft, just say "Warrant, please."  If they refuse, politely ask to leave.  If they refuse to let you go, call the cops and report an unlawful detention.  If the cops don't wish to be involved, take down everyone's name, badge numbers (if applicable), witness names (plus contact info), and ask for supervisors.  Then sue.

Not terribly hard.

thats what will need to be done and then see how the courts process it.
 any guesses for how long it will take for someone to go from talking about it to actually being the test case?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MechAg94

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 11:41:08 AM »
somewhere on the perimeter road around hear is a "subject to search" warning. similar to the one at a military base entrance
They need to just start stamping this on our birth certificates so they don't need to post signs.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

AZRedhawk44

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 12:08:56 PM »
If you're not getting on an aircraft, just say "Warrant, please."  If they refuse, politely ask to leave.  If they refuse to let you go, call the cops and report an unlawful detention.  If the cops don't wish to be involved, take down everyone's name, badge numbers (if applicable), witness names (plus contact info), and ask for supervisors.  Then sue.

Not terribly hard.

And if no sworn officer badge numbers are present, leave anyways.

The GED security goons have no arrest powers.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 12:42:04 PM »
arrest vs detain could become problematic   we need a test case thankfully folks will be elbowing each other outa the way to defend freedom
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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PTK

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 12:59:20 PM »
arrest vs detain could become problematic   we need a test case thankfully folks will be elbowing each other outa the way to defend freedom

You always do seem to talk quite large and look down your nose to all others. What are you, personally, doing about this issue?
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

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MechAg94

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 02:09:02 PM »
You always do seem to talk quite large and look down your nose to all others. What are you, personally, doing about this issue?
Actually, he usually looks down his nose at those who talk large. 

He has a point though.  Plenty of people bitch about the TSA behavior, but almost no one is willing to put their money where their mouth is.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 02:18:47 PM »
You always do seem to talk quite large and look down your nose to all others. What are you, personally, doing about this issue?

its a non issue to me and i remain astounded that with so many so upset the tsa cleverly manages to avoid ever encountering any folks who stand up to them.  from the talk you'd expect the system to collapse under the sheer weight of the revolution.  kinda like in "V"   but thats was just a movie fantasy, this is real life with real revolutionaries.... or not
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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AZRedhawk44

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 02:19:39 PM »
Plenty of people bitch about the TSA behavior, but almost no one is willing to put their money where their mouth is.

I'm busy NOT putting my money wherever the TSA is.

I'm in one of the most affluent and fun-filled times of life that I will enjoy on this Earth, and I sure wouldn't mind doing some traveling.

This is THOUSANDS of dollars not getting spent... because of the TSA.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

AZRedhawk44

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 02:21:50 PM »
its a non issue to me and i remain astounded that with so many so upset the tsa cleverly manages to avoid ever encountering any folks who stand up to them.  from the talk you'd expect the system to collapse under the sheer weight of the revolution.  kinda like in "V"   but thats was just a movie fantasy, this is real life with real revolutionaries.... or not

They haven't pushed the boundaries into my alternative modes of transportation.

When they took the planes, I started driving.

I'll drive until I can afford to get pilot's wings and join a co-op to buy a plane.

If they come any more into my life... they'll hit a wall.  As-is, I'm not allowing 1 red cent of my money to be spent in airports.  Eventually, the airlines will realize this.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

vaskidmark

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2011, 02:30:48 PM »
arrest vs detain could become problematic   we need a test case thankfully folks will be elbowing each other outa the way to defend freedom

So what's the difference between arrest and detain?  And don't you dare try to tell me it has to do with the amount of time I am not free to leave.

Quote
Posted by: MechAg94  
You always do seem to talk quite large and look down your nose to all others. What are you, personally, doing about this issue?

Actually, he usually looks down his nose at those who talk large.  

He has a point though.  Plenty of people bitch about the TSA behavior, but almost no one is willing to put their money where their mouth is.
 

Might have been true at one time, but these days there are a lot of folks who are intentionally pushing back against TSA's behavior.   There are even weenies whining about it.

 
Quote
http://open.salon.com/blog/mark_toubin/2010/11/23/safety_first_tsa_complaints_raise_concern
More often than not, I have traveled via air for the Thanksgiving Holiday. Fortunately, I am staying home this week and will not have to confront the anti-TSA Security travelers exercising their First Amendment vocal cords.

There are plenty of stories about folks who have stood up to the security theater.  I'm not going to look them up for you.

The only reason I am not confronting TSA is because I have no reason (or money) to travel anywhere by air.  If I had the money I am sure I could find a reason to fly somewhere just so I could personally deal with TSA's JBT behaviors.  Even if it meant flying from home in Richmond to DCA-Reagan or Dulles for lunch.  While I wait for the money unicorn to fart cash in my direction I'll keep sending correspondence to the feds, my congresscritters, and the noozepapers as well as whinging on-line.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2011, 02:33:07 PM »
to me that sounds like a reasonable measured response. its personal you actually do something and as you observed the airlines pay the price of losing your trade.  its real action.  not grandiose or romantic but real and hit em in the wallet is always good. and you have a chance of getting enough other like minded folks to really get something done.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2011, 02:35:53 PM »
my understanding is that tsa detains you till the cops arrive and you get arrested by the cops.  i have no idea what the subtle legalities are and suspect someone will have to get cuffed to get this all settled out and resolved in court
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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HankB

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2011, 02:39:26 PM »
I haven't had occasion to fly anywhere since the naked scanners and sexual battery became standard operating procedure . . . but other times, there has always - ALWAYS - been a uniformed, badged, armed LEO overseeing things.
arrest vs detain could become problematic   we need a test case thankfully folks will be elbowing each other outa the way to defend freedom
I have no inclination to fight an LEO on the street, at the gate, or elsewhere. But though I may be turned away from someplace, nobody less than a uniformed, badged, armed LEO is going to "detain" me anywhere.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2011, 02:42:33 PM »
But though I may be turned away from someplace, nobody less than a uniformed, badged, armed LEO is going to "detain" me anywhere.

^^^

This times eleventybajillion.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2011, 02:44:49 PM »
there has always - ALWAYS - been a uniformed, badged, armed LEO overseeing things.

usually more than one
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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zxcvbob

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2011, 03:40:50 PM »
I have flown a couple of times since Thanksgiving, and Daughter has flown a few times.  There were no backscatter nekkid scanners at any of the airports.  There were millimeter wave machines at one airport, but they were turned off.  "Normal" security screening, if you can call the take your shoes off, and liquids in a ziplock freezer bag normal.  The magnetometer sensitivity was turned up pretty high.  I don't remember what I was carrying that set it off, but I think it was just a couple of coins. 

So there was nothing really to push back against.

I did see some people miss their 6:00 AM flight because the checkpoint that was supposed to open at 4:30 didn't really get moving until after 5:00, and then they weren't moving very fast.  It looked like the bottleneck was the guy checking ID's and boarding passes.
"It's good, though..."

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2011, 03:45:10 PM »
So there was nothing really to push back against.

how could that be?  i saw it on the internet!
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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erictank

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Re: TSA pushing boundaries of where you will be groped
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2011, 06:04:10 PM »
So there was nothing really to push back against.

how could that be?  i saw it on the internet!

Because TSA is trying their damnedest to quiet things down and play up those upset over police-state "security" measures as kooks.

But they're still searching for drugs, for money, for shampoo and sodas and nail clippers - and missing knives and firearms and incendiaries.  They're still sexually assaulting people, whether or not said people go through the Nude-O-Scopes.  They're still violating the right of paying passengers to travel via common carrier, as a result of their powertripping and unwillingness to follow their OWN FRAKKING RULES.  I've repeatedly posted links here to Flyertalk.com's Travel Safety And Security board, where tales of TSA abuse run rampant, coming from those most affected by it - those who fly frequently, either for business or pleasure.  Feel free to check it out, C&SD - and there are people there who are indeed putting their money where their mouths are.

Let me make it personal for you, for a second - do you want some perv in a windowless closet somewhere looking at a Nude-O-Scope picture detailed enough to clearly image your daughters' genitalia?  Do you want his (yes, HIS) buddies putting their hands in your daughters' pants?  How do you tell them that MOST strangers' bad touches are wrong and must be met with screams and hitting and running, but THESE strangers' bad touches must be met with silence and stillness and are "okay"?  Will it still be okay when they start graduating to actual, physical cavity searches?

Since the ID checker doesn't check your ID against *ANYTHING*, what valid security purpose is served by him making you show him your identity papers in order to travel about your own country, as though you were an East German prole?  "Papiere, bitte, kameraden!"  Show them anything but what they want to see - a passport, a NEXUS or SENTRI card, a passport card (all of which are on TSA's approved-ID list, and which Every. Single. Screener.  is supposed to have been trained and retrained on recognizing) - and you'll more than likely get, "Show me a driver's license, or you're not flying today."  This is security?

The same screener who just ran his gloved hands inside the underpants of the sick guy in front of you will now be running those same gloves over your *FACE*.  And the face of the person behind you, and behind THAT person, and behind THAT person, etc., etc., etc.  Unless challenged, many will wear a single pair of gloves for their entire freaking shift - including for bathroom breaks.

Their VIPR teams  ;/ are testing the waters, pushing their search areas into other areas of our lives - witness the recent incident where a TSA VIPR crew forcibly searched passengers getting OFF of a *FREAKING TRAIN* in Savannah GA.  Although at least the train station manager told TSA in no uncertain terms that they wouldn't be pulling that nonsense again in HIS station - good for him!  VIPR sets up at train stations, bus stations, Metro and other light rail systems around the country.  I have to wonder, given that they DO set up at least occasionally here in VA on Metro, how they deal with the fact that Metro follows VA state law regarding open and concealed carry on board their vehicles, when operating within the Commonwealth...

They, as an agency, have no issue with rampant powertripping, abuse of authority, and outright theft from those they're supposed to be protecting - until they get caught at it, of course, which happens on a disturbingly-regular basis.  At which point we're told that, like the other hundreds and hundreds of incidents reported over the past decade, this latest problem was just "an isolated incident" that their background-checked workforce does not tolerate in their midst.  Except that they *DO* - hell, TSA forced RIC (Richmond VA) to issue a SIDA badge for unrestricted secure-area access to someone the agency knew was a CONVICTED FELON a couple of years ago, and I've not seen a single report of one screener telling another to knock off his abusive behavior towards a paying passenger!

And after all that, they *STILL* have >70% failure rates - ON ANNOUNCED TESTS - for detecting simulated bombs or weapons, and let ACTUAL weapons through.

There's your "security", C&SD.  That's what you're paying for.