Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jamie B on March 05, 2012, 06:05:59 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mccain-calls-u-led-airstrikes-syria-203424110.html
"The United States should lead an international effort to protect key population centers in Syria, especially in the north, through airstrikes on Assad's forces," McCain, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a speech on the Senate floor.
Sure, John - we are still living with the Iraqi weapons-of-mass-destruction fiasco.
Gee, we even can attack both Iran and Syria at the same time.
We have the resources since North Korea has been heeled by God knows how much foreign aid.
What a *expletive deleted*bag.
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He's right: we need all the Muslim Brotherhood "democracies" we can forge ASAP. And, hey, it's good for the war machine. The military runs on beer, and his wife can provide it.
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Oh, John
Ringo McCain, no.
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Cause, you know, we don't have enough on our plate right now. It's our fight and should jump right in. There's just no chance at all that a worse government could pop up. Great idea John, great idea.
If the rebels gain some ground, form a government and can be vetted, and make a formal request for help then we can think about it. Till then stay the hell out of it, it's none of our business nor do we have anything to gain by sticking our nose in there.
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Yes, on GP it is a good thing to bomb the hell out of savages. I just think that we may have a few other things on our plate and no way to determine which side is more worthy of bombing the snot out of. Besides, we want it to go on as long as possible. Every jihadi killed in Syria is one fewer railing against the USA.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/292561/them-against-them-not-them-against-us-mark-krikorian
...We have no interest in helping the Muslim Brotherhood overthrow the Assad regime. But I would go further. Civil war in Syria is actually the best real-world scenario for us in the coming years — the longer, the better...
Our national interest lies in ensuring our enemies focus their savagery on each other, not us.
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He's right: we need all the Muslim Brotherhood "democracies" we can forge ASAP. And, hey, it's good for the war machine. The military runs on beer, and his wife can provide it.
Sure = we can follow the historical successes that we have had in Iran and Egypt.
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Cause, you know, we don't have enough on our plate right now. It's our fight and should jump right in. There's just no chance at all that a worse government could pop up. Great idea John, great idea.
If the rebels gain some ground, form a government and can be vetted, and make a formal request for help then we can think about it. Till then stay the hell out of it, it's none of our business nor do we have anything to gain by sticking our nose in there.
Sounds like Ron Paul.
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Doesn't McCain know that stitiching this Krazy Kwilt of MENA Caliphate pieces together makes no sense? Somebody tell him that Muslims don't drink beer.
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Doesn't McCain know that stitiching this Krazy Kwilt of MENA Caliphate pieces together makes no sense? Somebody tell him that Muslims don't drink beer.
Ah, the Caliphate again.
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Cause, you know, we don't have enough on our plate right now. It's our fight and should jump right in. There's just no chance at all that a worse government could pop up. Great idea John, great idea.
If the rebels gain some ground, form a government and can be vetted, and make a formal request for help then we can think about it. Till then stay the hell out of it, it's none of our business nor do we have anything to gain by sticking our nose in there.
So once all the rebels and innocents are killed we can step in and help? I don't want another war, but a little B-2 remodeling of the presidential palace would be lulz. That deal would fold without Assad and his direct apparatus, no need to get involved further except to blast anything military looking that crosses in from Iran.
I;m sure whatever gov't that emerges would suck, but right now it's not savages killing savages, it's savages with tanks and artillery killing innocents. Anyone that blasts one of them is doing a good deed.
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So once all the rebels and innocents are killed we can step in and help? I don't want another war, but a little B-2 remodeling of the presidential palace would be lulz. That deal would fold without Assad and his direct apparatus, no need to get involved further except to blast anything military looking that crosses in from Iran.
I;m sure whatever gov't that emerges would suck, but right now it's not savages killing savages, it's savages with tanks and artillery killing innocents. Anyone that blasts one of them is doing a good deed.
Kill Assad and all you do is insure the other side will be the ones with the heavy weapons killing innocents. Hard as it may be to understand, a lot of regional conflicts really don't have a good guy vs a bad guy.
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Ah, the Caliphate again.
I didn't invent the concept, you know. And whether it's one Pan-Muslim juggernaut or many loosely connected Shari'a-powered "democracies," who cares?
The point is, replacing bad strongmen with worse mob rule solves nothing.
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Kill Assad and all you do is insure the other side will be the ones with the heavy weapons killing innocents. Hard as it may be to understand, a lot of regional conflicts really don't have a good guy vs a bad guy.
Yeah, I'm stupid. I get it. There's really no innocents on Assad's side, the real danger is post Assad how much more will Iran take over. That mess there will precipitate Iran's moves, which will move the timeline for what Israel is going to do to Iran, whether we do nothing or not. I dunno, after the last century I think that anyone who says "hey, that guy looks like Hitler in '34!" has a moral duty to obliterate same, just in case.
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Yeah, I'm stupid. I get it. There's really no innocents on Assad's side, the real danger is post Assad how much more will Iran take over. That mess there will precipitate Iran's moves, which will move the timeline for what Israel is going to do to Iran, whether we do nothing or not. I dunno, after the last century I think that anyone who says "hey, that guy looks like Hitler in '34!" has a moral duty to obliterate same, just in case.
You really think the US bombing the fed.gov and assassinating the leaders of every country with a serious bad guy in charge won't back fire? And that we have a moral imperative to throw a country into disordered chaos, but no moral duty to take responsibility for those actions but just to turn away from the hell we've created?
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Yeah, I'm stupid. I get it. There's really no innocents on Assad's side, the real danger is post Assad how much more will Iran take over. That mess there will precipitate Iran's moves, which will move the timeline for what Israel is going to do to Iran, whether we do nothing or not. I dunno, after the last century I think that anyone who says "hey, that guy looks like Hitler in '34!" has a moral duty to obliterate same, just in case.
Understandable. But, it is a less useful guide for mass-movements that do not rely on one evil and charismatic leader. Only thing that would work in those cases is going all Third Punic War on them. Orthodox/militant Islam qualifies, IMO.
Who has heard of the Cathars?
(1) ...resulted in the complete destruction of the city of Carthage, the annexation of all remaining Carthaginian territory by Rome, and the death or enslavement of the entire Carthaginian population. The Third Punic War ended Carthage's independent existence.
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Cartago delenda est.
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Sounds like Ron Paul.
At least the first 3/4 of a RP speech until he goes all do unto others. IOW, the part that doesn't make me smack my forehead and wish he knew what a good stopping point was.
So once all the rebels and innocents are killed we can step in and help?
No. Once the rebels can form a cohesive governing body, make some strides, make a request for help, and can be vetted as not being worse than the guy they are trying to overthrow we can consider it. Going off all half cocked has worked so well for us lately.
I;m sure whatever gov't that emerges would suck, but right now it's not savages killing savages, it's savages with tanks and artillery killing innocents. Anyone that blasts one of them is doing a good deed.
So we should hand the tanks and artillery over to a different bunch of potentially even worse savages?
I dunno, after the last century I think that anyone who says "hey, that guy looks like Hitler in '34!" has a moral duty to obliterate same, just in case.
Right. Because Assad has a first class military machine at his disposal, has annexed his neighbors, and has started the systemic eradication of an entire race. He's not a pissant trying to stomp out insurrection, which may or may not be righteous. Not at all.
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I didn't invent the concept, you know.
Not being original doesn't make it more likely.
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So once all the rebels and innocents are killed we can step in and help? I don't want another war, but a little B-2 remodeling of the presidential palace would be lulz. That deal would fold without Assad and his direct apparatus, no need to get involved further except to blast anything military looking that crosses in from Iran.
I;m sure whatever gov't that emerges would suck, but right now it's not savages killing savages, it's savages with tanks and artillery killing innocents. Anyone that blasts one of them is doing a good deed.
See, there is where you are wrong.
It is savages killing savages. You thing the rebels would not use tanks & artillery against the Alawite-sympathetic civvies, were the roles reversed? The rebels are Sunnis supported by Muslim B-hood & the remnants of Al Qaeda. They are no better than the Alawite ruling class running the Syrian regime & military. At least Assad & Co. can be counted on to act with some rationality, some self-interest. Muslim fanatics, not so much.
I can see no gain by helping the same sort that now runs Libya & Egypt, run Syria. Best case is to keep them killing one another.
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The Muslim Brotherhood does not yet run Egypt. It's the same military thugs that used to run it, still.
There are not enough hangings.
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The Muslim Brotherhood does not yet run Egypt. It's the same military thugs that used to run it, still.
There are not enough hangings.
We should count our blessings, I suppose.
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Understandable. But, it is a less useful guide for mass-movements that do not rely on one evil and charismatic leader. Only thing that would work in those cases is going all Third Punic War on them. Orthodox/militant Islam qualifies, IMO.
Who has heard of the Cathars?
(1)
??? ???
I have. Cathar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism) =/= Carthaginian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage).
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We should count our blessings, I suppose.
We should hang more thugs.
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??? ???
I have. Cathar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism) =/= Carthaginian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage).
A Jesuit and a Dominican were having lunch in a Roman cafe last spring. Their conversation turned toward their respective orders' most vigorous acts in support of Roman Catholicism. The Jesuit boasted, "We saved southern Germany from the damnable Lutherans. It is obvious the Jesuits did more, more vigorously than did the Dominicans on behalf of the Church." The Dominican cleared his throat and spoke, "Saved southern Germany from the Lutherans? Indeed, that is a great deed, given how the Lutherans still survive in all of Northern Europe and America and the support they gave heretic luterani in Bavaria." The Domincan took a sip of his espresso and then continued, "I am afraid we Dominicans can claim only to have saved southern France from the Cathars." The Jesuit looked perplexed, "The Cathars? Who are they?" The Dominican smiled and said, "Exactly."
"Kill them all. The Lord knows his own."
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We should hang more thugs.
Gonna need a LOT of rope...
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"Kill them all. The Lord knows his own."
You realize that phrase is about killing Catholics by accident, right?
I suppose you'll invoke Vae Victis as successful foreign policy, next.
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You realize that phrase is about killing Catholics by accident, right?
I thought it referred to a Muslim army killing other Muslims in a beseiged city?.......
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You realize that phrase is about killing Catholics by accident, right?
I suppose you'll invoke Vae Victis as successful foreign policy, next.
Yes, I do. From the Albiginsian Crusade, directed against the Cathars.
And, take a pill. Not every post here on APS is a direct response to the OP or even the current thread tangent. It might be a new tangent off the old tangent.
Carthage
Cathar
Catarrh
Qatar
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Yes, I do. From the Albiginsian Crusade, directed against the Cathars.
And, take a pill. Not every post here on APS is a direct response to the OP or even the current thread tangent. It might be a new tangent off the old tangent.
Carthage
Cathar
Catarrh
Qatar
Jar Jar...
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Binks
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Has there ever been a country McCain didn't want to bomb? Other than Mexico, I mean.
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The Cathars were not Carthaginians, they were a medieval Gnostic sect in France that ended up martyred.
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The Cathars were not Carthaginians, they were a medieval Gnostic sect in France that ended up martyred.
Indeed.
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The Cathars were not Carthaginians, they were a medieval Gnostic sect in France that ended up martyred.
I expect many of us knew that without prompting. The salted earth treatment parallel holds nonetheless.
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The Cathars were not Carthaginians, they were a medieval Gnostic sect in France that ended up martyred.
No, the Cathars were the people that invented Ex-Lax.
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No, the Cathars were the people that invented Ex-Lax.
I thought they invented those little tubes they stick in you when you can't pee....
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Re Cathars... No doubt many did, but many may not have. The Cathars are not exactly headline news. There was no intention to be patronizing. Gnosticism happens to be a personal interest of mine.
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Why can't we just bomb Poland?....everyone else has....
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I thought they invented those little tubes they stick in you when you can't pee....
That was the Foley Heresy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foley_catheter).