Post by: Perd Hapley on May 06, 2008, 05:41:40 PM
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=6c734921-7c74-48df-b487-79d7fd5875bc
Howard Dean admits that the Dem Party is no longer the party of the working man, unless he is brain-washed by his union.
Quote
If you're in Texas, Mississippi, or Tennessee, and you're a hardworking guy and drive a pickup truck, maybe the gun rack in the back, you vote Republican, unless you're a member of a union. And why is that? Because if you're a member of a union you still believe the things that those hardworking folks in those states believe, but you have a guy talking to you every month about why it's important to vote for a Democrat.
Unfortunately, I can't find that speech anywhere. According to Rush Limbaugh's website, that's from a speech he gave at the Jefferson-Jackson Banquet in Indianapolis. I'm still trying to figure out how they can claim Jefferson as a Democrat, but I digress.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_050508/content/01125110.guest.html
Post by: Ezekiel on May 06, 2008, 08:53:23 PM
If folks thought otherwise, your "shot across the bow" statement would have been met with resounding defendant discourse, as opposed to the "ho hum" of 180+ minutes of collective silence and multiple posts in other arenas. (Either that, or collective Southern Rednecks -- and the suggested Army illiterate -- just do not understand what you have queried.)
Personally, I'll go with, "it was a loaded question."
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
Post by: SomeKid on May 06, 2008, 10:09:07 PM
Both collective utterances are true statements, neither individual is a jerk.
If folks thought otherwise, your "shot across the bow" statement would have been met with resounding defendant discourse, as opposed to the "ho hum" of 180+ minutes of collective silence and multiple posts in other arenas. (Either that, or collective Southern Rednecks -- and the suggested Army illiterate -- just do not understand what you have queried.)
Personally, I'll go with, "it was a loaded question."
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
If folks thought otherwise, your "shot across the bow" statement would have been met with resounding defendant discourse, as opposed to the "ho hum" of 180+ minutes of collective silence and multiple posts in other arenas. (Either that, or collective Southern Rednecks -- and the suggested Army illiterate -- just do not understand what you have queried.)
Personally, I'll go with, "it was a loaded question."
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
Nothing like an ad hominem lie/attack to make something feel better about itself.
Post by: xavier fremboe on May 07, 2008, 02:08:00 AM
Both collective utterances are true statements, neither individual is a jerk.
If folks thought otherwise, your "shot across the bow" statement would have been met with resounding defendant discourse, as opposed to the "ho hum" of 180+ minutes of collective silence and multiple posts in other arenas. (Either that, or collective Southern Rednecks -- and the suggested Army illiterate -- just do not understand what you have queried.)
Personally, I'll go with, "it was a loaded question."
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
If folks thought otherwise, your "shot across the bow" statement would have been met with resounding defendant discourse, as opposed to the "ho hum" of 180+ minutes of collective silence and multiple posts in other arenas. (Either that, or collective Southern Rednecks -- and the suggested Army illiterate -- just do not understand what you have queried.)
Personally, I'll go with, "it was a loaded question."
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
I'd say Dean is the bigger jerk. He's the chairman of the DNC. If he's noting that some of his core constituency is voting for him solely based on one issue, he should probably try to realign his party's policies to keep that constituency. I shoot with many democrats who are dems based solely on their union membership. The believe they are voting their pocketbooks. I believe they are wrong. We have many spirited discussions, but since everyone has a gun, they are always polite. That he would note this and not do anything about it is fairly cynical, IMO.
King was talking out of his bung. I would agree that many of the people that I believe to be illiterate are not in the private sector, but I would argue that the majority find employ at the municipal or federal level. Many even being elected to office.
BTW, which social group does have the most pristine track record on intelligence?
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 07, 2008, 02:27:01 AM
Post by: Sergeant Bob on May 07, 2008, 03:14:48 AM
Hey, Zeke. Glad to see you have wi-fi in your tent.
Hey, Howard Dean and Stephen are not alone!
Post by: Dannyboy on May 07, 2008, 03:15:21 AM
Post by: Ezekiel on May 07, 2008, 04:03:07 AM
Hey, Zeke. Glad to see you have wi-fi in your tent.
That IS funny.
Post by: Ezekiel on May 07, 2008, 04:06:31 AM
Ezekiel has been insulting military people for going on 2 years now. Probably more. I'd say that makes him a bigger jerk than the other two. Among other things, of course. I'm thinking of a warm summer's eve. And the bag it came in.
Now, now: I merely take umbrage with those that are there because they have nowhere else to go.
That such is a recognizable percentage is not my problem.
Bureaucracies pander to the lowest common denominator.
Post by: freakazoid on May 07, 2008, 05:13:44 AM
Quote
We have many spirited discussions, but since everyone has a gun, they are always polite.
"An armed society is a polite society"
Post by: mtnbkr on May 07, 2008, 05:32:51 AM
Now, now: I merely take umbrage with those that are there because they have nowhere else to go.
Judging by the ex/retired military folks I've worked with in the past decade plus, I'd say it's a damn fine alternative to going nowhere (and depending on the person, a better choice than college). I've worked with quite a lot of folks who's only credentials prior to accepting the job that put them near me was a stint in the military. I'll take an ex-grunt who got his skills via hands-on in the military over a fresh college grad any day.
Edit to add: I have never been in the military myself. I'm one of the (not-so-fresh anymore) college grads I mentioned above.
Chris
Post by: Jamisjockey on May 07, 2008, 05:36:16 AM
Both collective utterances are true statements, neither individual is a jerk.
If folks thought otherwise, your "shot across the bow" statement would have been met with resounding defendant discourse, as opposed to the "ho hum" of 180+ minutes of collective silence and multiple posts in other arenas. (Either that, or collective Southern Rednecks -- and the suggested Army illiterate -- just do not understand what you have queried.)
Personally, I'll go with, "it was a loaded question."
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
If folks thought otherwise, your "shot across the bow" statement would have been met with resounding defendant discourse, as opposed to the "ho hum" of 180+ minutes of collective silence and multiple posts in other arenas. (Either that, or collective Southern Rednecks -- and the suggested Army illiterate -- just do not understand what you have queried.)
Personally, I'll go with, "it was a loaded question."
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
You don't know *expletive deleted*it about the military, and yet again you prove it. To join the military you have to pass the Asvab, which requires basic reading and comprehension skills. You, sir, line right up with Dean and King in the aforementioned category.
Or, was that too literate of an ex-military type for you?
Post by: xavier fremboe on May 07, 2008, 05:44:53 AM
Quote
We have many spirited discussions, but since everyone has a gun, they are always polite.
"An armed society is a polite society"
Precisely...
Post by: Racehorse on May 07, 2008, 05:45:29 AM
Let's give the accused some credit: Neither social group identified exists with a pristine track record of intelligence.
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
Noting such makes nobody a "jerk."
Actually, noting such is exactly what makes someone a jerk. People who go around telling others they're stupid are almost universally jerks. Besides that, no social group on the planet has a pristine track record of intelligence. But I'd bet on the average intelligence of the military over the average intelligence of the democrat/liberal any day.
Post by: Ezekiel on May 07, 2008, 05:59:40 AM
I'd say it's a damn fine alternative to going nowhere (and depending on the person, a better choice than college).
"Depending on the person."
"Better choice than college."
To me, that implies something: specifically what Mr. King indicated.
Post by: Ezekiel on May 07, 2008, 06:05:37 AM
To join the military you have to pass the Asvab, which requires basic reading and comprehension skills.
Care to define "basic?" Is it beyond a 6th-grade level?
The ASVAB, effectively, determines slots. (What do they call Cannon Fodder, these days?)
"Passing" such a low-level filter is NOT impressive.
That said, as mtnbker indicated, "it's a damned fine alternative to going nowhere." Especially if it is the only alternative that you have.
Is it rude to point that out?
Post by: mtnbkr on May 07, 2008, 07:17:48 AM
I'd say it's a damn fine alternative to going nowhere (and depending on the person, a better choice than college).
"Depending on the person."
"Better choice than college."
To me, that implies something: specifically what Mr. King indicated.
Exactly what did I say that supported King's comments? His comments indicated a lack of intelligence or ability to read. Mine were targeted towards other factors: opportunities to attend college and suitability to the college environment or ability to take advantage of the opportunities while there. None of those factors have anything to do with intelligence or ability.
Or maybe the ex-grunt I work with who's earned his CCNP and is working on his CCIE is a low-grade idiot afterall...
Chris
Post by: Jamisjockey on May 07, 2008, 07:52:21 AM
To join the military you have to pass the Asvab, which requires basic reading and comprehension skills.
Care to define "basic?" Is it beyond a 6th-grade level?
The ASVAB, effectively, determines slots. (What do they call Cannon Fodder, these days?)
"Passing" such a low-level filter is NOT impressive.
That said, as mtnbker indicated, "it's a damned fine alternative to going nowhere." Especially if it is the only alternative that you have.
Is it rude to point that out?
Everyone has a stack of alternatives to thier current situation. Nobody is stuck in thier socioeconomic class. This is what's great about America, (despite what the Jesse Jacksons and Howard Deans of the world will tell you). Picking an alternative and progressing with forward momentum makes someone damn smart, in my opinion.
Oh, and to complete the ASVAB with enough score to at least be a Infantryman (Cannon Fodder is insulting, which is all you seem to know how to do), you still have to know how to read and write.
Post by: mtnbkr on May 07, 2008, 08:29:29 AM
Chris
Post by: roo_ster on May 07, 2008, 08:56:31 AM
Now, now: I merely take umbrage with those that are there because they have nowhere else to go.
Here's a clue or two:
- An Officer and a Gentleman was fiction
- Richard Gere is not a Navy Officer
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jZEXYFQZzGI
Post by: freakazoid on May 07, 2008, 09:57:34 AM
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Or maybe the ex-grunt I work with who's earned his CCNP and is working on his CCIE is a low-grade idiot afterall...
Thats pretty impressive, more so if he gets the CCIE. I believe only about 3% of the people who have a Cisco cert. have the CCIE.
Post by: Ezekiel on May 07, 2008, 10:06:05 AM
Now, now: I merely take umbrage with those that are there because they have nowhere else to go.
Here's a clue or two:
- An Officer and a Gentleman was fiction
- Richard Gere is not a Navy Officer
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jZEXYFQZzGI
That was humorous.
Post by: mtnbkr on May 07, 2008, 10:14:07 AM
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Or maybe the ex-grunt I work with who's earned his CCNP and is working on his CCIE is a low-grade idiot afterall...
Thats pretty impressive, more so if he gets the CCIE. I believe only about 3% of the people who have a Cisco cert. have the CCIE.He'd probably have it if he didn't have a family and ran a non-IT business on the side.
Chris
Post by: Scout26 on May 07, 2008, 11:23:25 AM
Ezekiel has been insulting military people for going on 2 years now. Probably more. I'd say that makes him a bigger jerk than the other two. Among other things, of course. I'm thinking of a warm summer's eve. And the bag it came in.
Now, now: I merely take umbrage with those that are there because they have nowhere else to go.
That such is a recognizable percentage is not my problem.
Bureaucracies pander to the lowest common denominator.
I knew several soldiers who "had nowhere else to go". They escaped bad schools, gangs, broken homes, the ghetto and the victim mentality to make something of themselves. Many either took college classes while in the service or went to college upon completion of their service. They are now functioning, productive members of society who I am extremely proud to have served with.
The ASVAB is an Vocational Aptitude Battery of tests. Is does not determine slots, but is used as a guide to which career fields you qualify adn have aptitude for (as some have higher standards then others). When I first took it for the Navy, I qualified for anything from cook to Nuclear Tech (and the recruiter really pushed the Nuc field and all the bonuses I could get.)
Oh, and Zeke, I found most newly enlisted soldiers smarter and more "world aware" then the average college student.
And you still have to pass the ASVAB to even become "Cannon Fodder", merely fogging the mirror is not enough.
I'd like to see your scores (especially your GT on the ASVAB), Zeke.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 07, 2008, 12:08:32 PM
Ezekiel has been insulting military people for going on 2 years now. Probably more. I'd say that makes him a bigger jerk than the other two.
I'm starting to have second thoughts. Where King and Ezekiel are concerned, ignorance or gullibility may be more of a factor than jerk-itude. It's one thing to be disrespectful of the military. It is another thing to buy uncritically into the notion that the military is a catch-all for the illiterate and the lazy.
Post by: Scout26 on May 07, 2008, 12:09:46 PM
College <> Smart.......
The dumbest guy I ever worked for had a Harvard BA and a Northwestern MBA. The smartest person I ever worked for only had a HS diploma.
Post by: Perd Hapley on May 07, 2008, 12:09:57 PM
Ezekiel has been insulting military people for going on 2 years now. Probably more. I'd say that makes him a bigger jerk than the other two. Among other things, of course. I'm thinking of a warm summer's eve. And the bag it came in.
Now, now: I merely take umbrage with those that are there because they have nowhere else to go.
Then you have changed your earlier position, that ALL military members are mentally deficient?
Post by: Bigjake on May 07, 2008, 12:14:30 PM
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Mine were targeted towards other factors: opportunities to attend college and suitability to the college environment or ability to take advantage of the opportunities while there. None of those factors have anything to do with intelligence or ability.
You are aware that colleges charge tuition, right? A desire to serve one's country and lack of a decent college warchest doesn't mean that the average GI is just a dumb conscript.
Post by: SomeKid on May 07, 2008, 07:14:53 PM
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Mine were targeted towards other factors: opportunities to attend college and suitability to the college environment or ability to take advantage of the opportunities while there. None of those factors have anything to do with intelligence or ability.
You are aware that colleges charge tuition, right? A desire to serve one's country and lack of a decent college warchest doesn't mean that the average GI is just a dumb conscript.
Big +1 to this. A buddy of mine back in HS had a crappy home front, basically a 18 he was on his own. He went military, a good route for him. While my family doesn't pay my way, I was not kicked out or forced to pay rent. I can go to college if I work. If he had more money, or even a little family support like I did, he would likely have gone this way.
Post by: mtnbkr on May 07, 2008, 08:01:37 PM
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Mine were targeted towards other factors: opportunities to attend college and suitability to the college environment or ability to take advantage of the opportunities while there. None of those factors have anything to do with intelligence or ability.
You are aware that colleges charge tuition, right? A desire to serve one's country and lack of a decent college warchest doesn't mean that the average GI is just a dumb conscript.
Huh? I think you quoted the wrong person because I was not saying that.
Chris