Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Stand_watie on August 18, 2011, 10:06:51 PM
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Funny circumstances but a serious question. Serious posters feel free to respond and jokey posters feel free to respond, but I'm only interested in serious responses from those posters who have a moral code that values honesty/integrity and passing those values on to kiddies.
Backstory is I have a medical condition that causes horrifically weak stomach at times and had a rotting, fly covered, horribly stinking , dry heave inducing even though I was only breathing through my mouth, armadillo on my doorstep this evening when Erica and I arrived home.
Trying to think through a solution I came up with the idea of having her double sack it for me - but how to get her to do it? I decided to mislead her her into thinking I'd pay her a hundred bucks to do it for me with sophistry and by deluding myself that I was teaching her an important financial lesson.
So I told her I'd give her a hundred bucks if she did it...she did it (gleefully), even stopping after the first sack (I was peeping through the window in the door and breathing through my mouth) to do a Hannah Montana impression of a rodeo cowgirl swinging the sack around her head like a lasso with one hand on hip and singing (frantic pounding on door and pantomining "don't do that" from me).
So, her good mood wasn't even diminished when I told her that I was already going to give her the hundred bucks for back and forward allowance, whether she sacked up the armadillo or not. It improved when I told her I was going to give her an hour of my my pay on top of that for a five minute job...(continued)
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(part 2)
...I imparted important financial advice that if something sounds too good to be true it probably is, even if it is technically correct.
My moral misgivings are that I taught her that dad is a sneak who will lawyer-ize stuff out of you by misleading you (even if she's happy with amount of money she has).
What say the moral philosophers of APS? A hundred bucks is a significant sum to me, but chump change compared to my daughter thinking I'm honest and she can trust me.
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I told her I'd give her a hundred bucks if she did it.
If you didn't preface the oral contract by stipulating that the $100 was part of a different arrangement to begin with, I would argue that you defrauded/defaulted on a contract.
The $100 was for back/forward allowance.
You owe her another $100.
Just because she's your daughter doesn't mean you can treat her differently than any other human being you engage in a contract with.
I decided to mislead her her into thinking I'd pay her a hundred bucks to do it for me with sophistry
Bad Dad. :mad: Srsly.
She'll get plenty of sophistry from others through life. Don't justify your desire to default on $100 as some sort of "object lesson" for your daughter. Show her what a stand-up guy is. It'll be a much more valuable object lesson later on in life.
Do you want her DATING guys that use sophistry against her to do things?
Or do you want her dating guys that are stand-up guys?
Keep in mind that daughters tend to use Daddy as the role model against which they judge the goodness of potential boyfriends or husbands.
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IMHO, You owe the girl a hundred dollars.
Like AZ said, you don't want to start teaching her that half-truths and manipulating is an appropriate way to deal with people. If you want to teach her that there are bad folks out there that will mislead her, it would be better to do so in a way that doesn't involve her role model being said bad guy.
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AZRedhawk44. Yeah. Just looking for a corroboration of my remorse I guess.
Other posters..let's change this topic question to how I apologize.
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And yes, she's getting two hundred bucks.
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The financial lesson is excellent- people can get paid more or demand more pay for doing necessary services that few other people would be willing to do.
I wouldn't tell her that you were going to give her a $100 anyway- but if you are/were going to pay her above and beyond this windfall, I guess it sort of mitigates that problem.
Edit: I reread your post- if you owed her back allowance, you owe her another $100.
Now here's the downside (maybe)-
I do stuff like this with my son all of the time because he's fascinated with money (8 years old) and has a very good concept of what it represents. If I ask him to do something, he'll ask if he can have $20 for the chore, we end up going back and forth a few times and usually end up somewhere between a nickel and a dime. (he'll work cheap, but he seems to like to bargain for things).
The upside is that I can motivate him with a bit o change in my pocket- I pay him a nickel per pullup he does at the playground, or I might pay him a dime to run a lap around a track- gives me a little quiet time, and keeps him fit- everyone is happy.
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..I imparted important financial advice that if something sounds too good to be true it probably is, even if it is technically correct.
Seriously? :facepalm:
If you follow through on your intended plan you will have taught her you're not trustworthy and that it OK to deceive even what are supposed to be the people you can always trust.
Fork over the hundred bucks.
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My moral misgivings are that I taught her that dad is a sneak who will lawyer-ize stuff out of you by misleading you (even if she's happy with amount of money she has).
What say the moral philosophers of APS? A hundred bucks is a significant sum to me, but chump change compared to my daughter thinking I'm honest and she can trust me.
I'd say anybody who would lie to his daughter is lower on the scale of evolution than a snake. In my straight-arrow world, you cheated your daughter. The operative portion of your entire sorry saga is this: "I told her I'd give her a hundred bucks if she did it." That statement very clearly implies a contractual quid pro quo -- Party A double bags rotting carcass, Party B pays $100 as compensation for said double bagging. Weaseling out by telling her after the fact that you didn't mean you would pay her $100 to bag the carcass, but that you only mean you would pay up on money you already owed her, is pretty low.
I'd say you taught her an important lesson, all right: Always get it in writing, and always read the fine print.
So ... moving on to the "How do I apologize" part -- perhaps pointing out that you had intended to teach her a valuable lesson, and that you realized after the fact (after being soundly thrashed by your so-called friends) that the lesson actually conveyed was the opposite of the one you had intended.
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So, obviously you screwed up (as you recognize) so I'll not belabour that.
I'd just use it as an object lesson in 1. everyone screws up, and admitting it and making it right are what differentiates the good and the bad 2. The value of forgiveness 3. The danger of greed 4. If you're a Christian type, great intro to a discussion of "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and the Gospel. No offense if you aren't, I don't know your religious leanings.
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I'd say that the lesson here is you, StandWaitie, got a lesson.
Your apology to her should be as straightforward as the deal you should have been making with her. Truth, pure and simple. Integrated in that is that she needs to have conveyed by you for her to be wary of everyone who wishes to make a deal with her, especially those who she feels closest to. Follow that with advice that even though she should be wary, she also should guard against becoming cynical.
Life is not simple is it?
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Good answers all, and I thank you although I'll admit that they weren't pleasant to hear. Apology has been tendered and graciously received. Cash has been tendered and enthusiastically received.
Moderators if my admission of lower-than-a-snake-belly-behavior reflects badly on this forum I won't be mad if you relocate this thread.
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Balog, no offense
grampster, no not simple
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Moderators if my admission of lower-than-a-snake-belly-behavior reflects badly on this forum I won't be mad if you relocate this thread.
*shrugs*
If you want it gone, I'll get rid of it. But like you said - everyone makes mistakes sometimes; it's how you deal with your screw ups that show what kind of person you are.
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Glad to see that you corrected your mistake and learned your lesson.
That didn't work out quite as you intended. ;)
But it worked out and you done good in the end.
Thus endth the lesson.
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So after I spent a good bit of time trying to craft a response, I realized that, although it wouldn't be the first stone here, I will like myself better if I leave mine uncast.
Depending on your daughter's capabilities and your relationship, one path away from that precipice might include allowing her to read this thread. Just avoid the SNAG drama.
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You need to not only give up the $200, but you need to explain exactly why you did what you did and why you came to the realization that it was wrong and why you changed your mind. It's gonna hurt and be embarassing as hell, but you need to go the extra mile for her. Going the extra mile to make it right is something she needs to see in you as an example.
There will come a time in her life where she looks back on something she did to someone and realizes it wasn't on the up-and-up. The easy thing to do in that situation is just let it run. Ignore it and let it fade in time. The hard thing to do is to own up to it and make it right. Your courage here will give her courage to do the right thing at that time.
A simple "You're right, here's $200" isn't going to cut it here.
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*shrugs*
If you want it gone, I'll get rid of it. But like you said - everyone makes mistakes sometimes; it's how you deal with your screw ups that show what kind of person you are.
No. Just giving aknowledgement of good will in case a mod thinks it reflects badly.
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next time just say please, but yup, you owe her the Benjamin (s).
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You got hosed. I would've done it for ten.
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... you need to explain exactly why you did what you did and why you came to the realization...
Was done.
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Can we now change the thread tack to just heaping gratuitous abuse on Stande-waite?
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Can we now change the thread tack to just heaping gratuitous abuse on Stande-waite?
Mods, how do I change my screen name to "Fistful Magnum Maximus"?
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My dad once told my sister, sarcastically, that he'd pay her a million dollars to do something or another...so my sister did it, then (sarcastically) demanded payment. So he wrote her a check for ONE MILLION DOLLARS (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Koloblicin/dr-evil.jpg).
She still has it. :lol:
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Good on you for 'fessing up to the kid. And paying her, as well.
Also, have you angered a redneck gang lately? A dead armadillo may be like a dead fish among the more Italian-influenced organizations.
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Good on you for 'fessing up to the kid. And paying her, as well.
Also, have you angered a redneck gang lately? ....
Redneck gang of porch sitting mongrels that love nothing better than to drag home the most horrible roadkill possible.
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Now go and make yourself a nice cup of honey and hot tea. Soothing. =)
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And yes, she's getting two hundred bucks.
That's a fair start. IMO, you owe her an apology as well, explaining why what you did was wrong. Hawkmoon and Balog have the right of it, I'd say.
...And I see, reading through the rest of the posts before sending this off, that you've done the deed. Well done, for standing up and admitting you screwed up (both to the kidlet and here, when asking for opinions). I don't think you need to take over Fistful's place here on APS, though - after all, this WAS his fault, wasn't it? :lol: The rest of us just play in his pond sometimes, it's ALWAYS Fistful's fault!
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You do it and have her watch.
You break out your mask with the combo organic vapor, dust, and radionuclides cartridge mounted, get a couple of stout plastic trash bags, you pick it up by laying one opened trash bag over it, and use your hands to kind of roll it up and into the other trash bag. Then seal up the outer bag.
I've had to get rid of a number of smellies in my day. That's the way to do it. Screw the $100. Just tell her you have to show her how to do it so if necessary someday, she can do it. Life is not all pink unicorns and pretty nail polish.
You can chase away some of the flies beforehand, or spray on them, but face the fact that this operation will involve some of them landing on you. I never used OFF! insect repellent on myself beforehand, so I don't know if that would work with flies.
You can let her feel like she contributed positively by having her hose off the area afterward. (If she doesn't want to, don't push it, you do it.)
By the way, you do have a respirator mask, don't you? About $40 at many lumber yards --not extremely useful, but if you need it, you'll be glad you have it. I'm not talking about the paper ones, which don't block out smellies. And barely block out particles. Useless as tits on a bull.
Terry, 230RN
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Kid gets the $100 and a lavish apology.
If a kid can't trust their parents, who can they trust?
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If a kid can't trust their parents, who can they trust?
Which, incidentally, is why I've never understodd the whole "lying to your kids about Santa/the Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy etc" thing.
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Which, incidentally, is why I've never understodd the whole "lying to your kids about Santa/the Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy etc" thing.
Meh, that rates right up there with the unrealistic conception of reality we give kids (kids need?) about just about every aspect of the world until they are ready to understand more sophistication.
Also, kids are immersed in unreality of their own making every day. Some folks call it "imagination." Taking part in the imagination of small children used to be part of the fun of being a kid and raising kids. Too many of the Christian fundies and their atheistic analogs seem just terrified of such fun. Theirs are stern Gods that will brook no such frippery.
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Playing pretend and telling your kid a lie are not the same thing.
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Playing pretend and telling your kid a lie are not the same thing.
Yes, the difference is intent.
Now, tell me, what malign intent lies behind all those despicable parents who exchange quarters for the baby teeth of their sleeping children?
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It would have served you right if daughter returned the armadillo to the place she found it.
"Daddy, I said I'd bag it . . . I didn't say it would STAY bagged."
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There are times when I think I've learned as many lessons from raising my kids as I taught them in the raising. You did good rectifying the situation Stand-watie. And whoever made the comment in the first couple responses about daughters and their daddy's was dead on the money. Be a man she can admire and set the bar high.
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Good on ya.
And your kiddo for bagging a dead 'dilla.
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Will you be my daddy? I can do chores. :'( So in need of a father figure.
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Fistful beat me to it. But I really do NOT need a father figure. Just an allowance.
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Fistful beat me to it. But I really do NOT need a father figure. Just an allowance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_9hfHvQSNo#t=1m52s
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Good answers all, and I thank you although I'll admit that they weren't pleasant to hear. Apology has been tendered and graciously received. Cash has been tendered and enthusiastically received.
Moderators if my admission of lower-than-a-snake-belly-behavior reflects badly on this forum I won't be mad if you relocate this thread.
I'm not a moderator here, but IMHO this thread does not reflect poorly on anyone. You were man enough to question your action and ask for outside opinions, you were man enough to take your lumps here graciously (or seemingly so, at least), and -- most importantly, you were man enough to go back to your daughter and make amends.
How could that reflect badly? IMHO, if the apology and explanation were handled appropriately, more than likely she learned a lesson that's more valuable than the one you thought you were going to convey at the outset.
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How could that reflect badly?
Cuz dude got punked out by a dead armerdilla.
(Sorry. I've been reading misspelled Facebook posts, and it's rubbing off on me.)