Obama signs SCHIP bill

[Desertdog]

Sounds good unless you smoke.  Includedis 62-cent increase in the federal tax on cigarettes.  The worse is yet to come,

"This is a down payment on my commitment to cover every single American," Obama said before signing an expansion of the State Children's Health

Believe him, don't think he is just blowing wind.


Obama signs SCHIP bill
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/04/SCHIP_bill_on_way_to_Obamas_desk/UPI-15071233776032/


WASHINGTON, Feb. 4 (UPI) -- President Barack Obama signed into law a popular health insurance program for low-income children Wednesday, saying it was the first step to healthcare reform.

"This is a down payment on my commitment to cover every single American," Obama said before signing an expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program to roughly 4.1 million children who currently aren't covered by health insurance. The bill extends the program until 2013.

The additional $35 billion in costs would be funded by a 62-cent increase in the federal tax on cigarettes, which was one of the differences between the Senate and House bills. The House version included a 61-cent per-pack tax hike.

"It is just one component of a broader effort to bring our healthcare system into the 21st century," Obama said of the state-run, federally funded program.

Obama used the signing ceremony to urge passage of his economic stimulus package. Healthcare initiatives contained in the stimulus package moving through Congress include computerization of medical records and extension of health insurance for the unemployed "so workers who lose their jobs don't lose their healthcare, too," he said.

The SCHIP bill also allows states to use federal funds to provide healthcare coverage to children and pregnant women who are in the country legally -- a provision most Republicans opposed -- amending current law that mostly bars legal immigrants from receiving State Children's Health Insurance Program coverage until they have been in the United States for five years.

[roo_ster]

Like we don;t have enough money getting tossed about these days....

[RevDisk]

Wonder what will happen to those low income families depending on government healthcare when folks can't afford to smoke anymore?

[El Tejon]

Lemme get this straight:  we are funding health care for children on the tobacco addiction of the lower class?

This is nothing short of genius!  We kill the lower SESs with tobacco and then the kids get sick and die.

Himmler would be proud.

[Nick1911]

Wonder what will happen to those low income families depending on government healthcare when folks can't afford to smoke anymore?

At the rate it's going, we're going to see a lot more indoor hydroponic grows....  only of tobacco instead of MJ

[AZRedhawk44]

See... it was for the children!

How much longer until smokes hit $10 a pack?  Geez,  I remember them being $2 a pack in college.  $6+ a pack stops me from buying a pack once every couple of months for a "beer and smokes" night... out of disgust at the fact that the actual tobacco company maybe gets $0.50, the retailer gets another $0.50 and city/state/fed get the other $4-$5.

Seems like they aren't raising much revenue from truly recreational smokers as a result.

[Nitrogen]

Imagine how much tax money we could make if Pot was legal and taxed at a similar rate?

OH YES I WENT THERE

[longeyes]

Yes, lots of revenue and stoned clients with lowered standards and a laid-back demeanor are perfect for socialized medicine.

[Standing Wolf]

This is a down payment on my commitment to cover every single American...

...in socialist slime.

[lone_gunman]

Most of these children are getting the care they need, it is just that the hospitals and doctors are not getting paid anything for it.  This burden will be spread across society, one way or another.  Under our present system, the cost is passed onto other consumers who can pay for it.  It is part of the reason your doctor visit costs $200 not $100.  Whether you like the way we do it now, or prefer Obama's plan is irrelevant to the fact that tax payers and consumers are going to pay the bill for them.

[AZRedhawk44]

Most of these children are getting the care they need, it is just that the hospitals and doctors are not getting paid anything for it.  This burden will be spread across society, one way or another.  Under our present system, the cost is passed onto other consumers who can pay for it.  It is part of the reason your doctor visit costs $200 not $100.  Whether you like the way we do it now, or prefer Obama's plan is irrelevant to the fact that tax payers and consumers are going to pay the bill for them.

That argument is only valid if you see the following happen:
1.  Cash fees for medical procedures decrease;
2.  Contract re-imbursement for medical procedures decrease;
3.  Health care costs to employers decrease;
4.  Employee pay rates increase to reflect the savings in health care and compensate for the increased taxes.

I sincerely doubt this SCHIP bill is going to cause those 4 events to happen.  It's just going to end up underfunded as fewer and fewer smokers are left to pay the sin tax, resulting in funding from the general taxes.

[lone_gunman]

I sincerely doubt this SCHIP bill is going to cause those 4 events to happen.

I agree.  The program will undoubtedly provide scant compensation to hospitals and doctors, and I am certain that each year the compensation will be cut further, as in the case of Medicaid and Medicare.  But, Obama will still claim victory, and talk of the millions of children that now are no longer insured.

The payment to doctors will be so low that many will refuse to accept it (as is currently happening with Medicaid).  The care will still be provided for free, and no cost savings will be passed on to consumers.

[longeyes]

A lot of pre-med students are going to study economics instead of biology is my prediction.  Obama will drive many people out of the health care field, especially the really talented ones.  We'll end up with a "Cuban clinic" on every street corner that can double as a political surveillance team.

[lone_gunman]

Obama will drive many people out of the health care field

This is already happening, though at this point it is not Obama's fault.  Reimbursement rates are declining.  There is not much incentive to go through 4 years of med school, then 3 to 6 years of residency, and then take a job where you have to work around the clock, only to be compensated poorly.  The US has the best medical system in the world because we compensate our health care workers the best.

Residency programs in critical fields are no longer able to fill all the training slots.  Soon, US trained internal medicine and surgeons will be in extremely short supply.  We are increasing the number of foreign medical graduates allowed to enter each year, and most are coming from 2nd rate schools in Africa and Asia.

I predict we will see an increase in the number of mid level practitioners such as PA's and Nurse Practitioners to help offset the loss we will see in the number of people wanting to become MD's.

[zahc]

I posted a thread about this a week or so ago and all anyone had to say was "eeew gross smokers! People that smoke deserve it".

The obvious bad thing about this SCHIP thing, besides that it's Another Evil Tax, is that it is supposedly funding children's health care with revenue from smoking/other. Smoking is on the decline and has been for years. People are getting more health conscious, more and more cities are passing anti-smoking laws, and cigarettes (and now cigars) keep getting more and more expensive due to taxes. When revenue from these cigarette (and other) taxes drops, due to less people buying these heavily taxed products through legal channels, are these children going to receive less healthcare? Nay nay. There will be a 'tragic budget shortfall' and these poor children (think of them) will all die. So the taxes will get raised again. Even fewer people will buy the taxed goods as they get expensive so the taxes have to be raised even higher still. Meanwhile the black market continues to grow, more people get thrown in jail for supplying the demand for tobacco, more people get heavily fined and their cars searched to find contraband etc...


I don't want to sound like a radical, but the sum total of the reality of these thousand regulation cuts of NFA, WosD, and things like a FEDERAL tax on tobacco, is evidence that if the United States of America is not only dead, it's starting to smell pretty bad too.

[RevDisk]

I don't want to sound like a radical, but the sum total of the reality of these thousand regulation cuts of NFA, WosD, and things like a FEDERAL tax on tobacco, is evidence that if the United States of America is not only dead, it's starting to smell pretty bad too.

Money, power and most importantly, control.  That is the goal and the only priority for politicians. 

[lone_gunman]

To claim the US is dead because of a tobacco tax makes no sense.  The federal government is granted that power in the Constitution.

[Waitone]

The really big news about the latest incarnation of SCHIPS is congress deleted a requirement for patients have to demonstrate legal residency.  The new legislation will cost $30 billion per year more than the last incarnation.  How much of the increase is due to free medical care all around the undocumented community? Obama talks about SCHIPS being a down payment.  He was talking about a down payment on national healthcare.  I think he's delivered a down payment for amnesty also.

[lone_gunman]

Whether those people are legal or not legal, the hospitals and medical community are currently absorbing the cost of their care, and then passing it on to other consumers.  The solution to the problem is not to exclude illegals from medical care.  The solution is to send back illegals.  An interim solution would be pass the cost of their care to everyone in society, not just the medical community.

[Waitone]

Congress just did something to make the situation worse.  Our elected officials just place another large pile of corn in the medical field.

[lone_gunman]

Our elected officials just place another large pile of corn in the medical field.

Not really.  This program will reimburse hospitals and physicians at a rate equal to or less than current medicaid rates.  These rates are so low, that the care is still provided at a net loss.  It is better than nothing, but is not enough to cover the cost of care, let alone actually turn a profit.  If a medical organization is primarily dependent upon medicaid rates for reimbursement, it will always lose money.

[Monkeyleg]

...due to less people buying these heavily taxed products through legal channels...

The angelic anti-smokers here can talk all they want about the evils of smoking, but let's look at this from a longer-term perspective.

Higher cigarette taxes are going to make some people quit, but not enough to change health care costs. What will change, and in fact is already changing, is the market for bootleg cigarettes. It's a booming business.

Canada went through this several years ago. They raised the tax to the point where the government was actually collecting less in cigarette taxes than before, because of smuggling. The Canadian government had to lower the tax in order to get back to where they were.

So, tax revenues will fall because of smuggling, or tax revenues could conceivably fall because of reduced smoking. Either way, the SCHIP program will have to be funded from general revenues. That means that everybody pays, not just smokers.

[makattak]

So, tax revenues will fall because of smuggling, or tax revenues could conceivably fall because of reduced smoking. Either way, the SCHIP program will have to be funded from general revenues. That means that everybody pays, not just smokers.

But it's for CHILDREN you heartless fiend.

Who cares that we haven't even enrolled many of the "uninsured" children in the programs that their are already eligible for- we have to do more!

AND make sure that we'll allow the parents of many children who are already insured to drop their coverage cause, hey, free is hard to beat.

You know, I'm getting tired of this. You people who want socialism? LEAVE ME MY COUNTRY. Go to Europe where they already have everything you already want.

Or at least just screw up your own states and let me live in a free state. But they won't even stop there! States like California that have spent themselves into bankruptcy now are asking for the rest of the country to bail them out.

Like most of the government's actions, they'll punish those who make wise choices and reward the foolish. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

(Sorry, I'm feeling very cynical tonight.)

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

(Sorry, I'm feeling very cynical tonight.)

Hard to fault you for that.

 :|

[Balog]

On the other hand a career as a bootlegger is looking ever more promising....