So I qualify to be "stimulated"

[Monkeyleg]

In preparation for selling our house, my wife and I are going to have a new furnace and A/C system installed this year. I see in the porkulus bill that I will be eligible for a $1500 tax credit for upgrading to a high efficiency furnace.

I'm really torn on this. I've never taken money from the government before, and have only received the tax credits that other citizens have. So, I'm tempted not to take the tax credit.

Another part of me says that I should take it just to get back some of the additional tax dollars I'll be paying for the porkulus package.

Something tells me that my wife is going to beat me up on April 15, 2010 for not taking a tax credit. That won't be stimulating.

[lone_gunman]

Take the credit!  Its your money to begin with.

[mtnbkr]

I'm really torn on this. I've never taken money from the government before, and have only received the tax credits that other citizens have. So, I'm tempted not to take the tax credit.

This is available to anyone replacing their HVAC system, right?  Then it's available to everyone.  If it makes you feel better, I'm replacing my AC this spring.  If I qualify, I'll take advantage of the credit.  Like LG said, it's yours (our) money to begin with.

I don't see it being any different than any other tax credit or write-off.

Chris

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

It's an interesting moral question. 

I know that my grandfather would say "hell no" to it.  He'd say he doesn't want no government money, he'll get his own money thankyouverymuch.  Of course, he had way more personal pride than folks usually have these days.

The economist in me says to take the money.  Prosperity in a free market comes from everyone pursuing their own best interests, and taking the money is definitely in your best interest.  The problem is not people accepting the money, the problem is government involving itself to give the money.

It's tempting to say it's OK to take the money because it's really your money, paid in to the government in the form of taxes.  But that isn't quite right.  The money you'd get almost certainly comes from people much higher up on the economic ladder than you or I.  Those are the people responsible for paying most of the nation's tax burden, and it's mostly their money that you'd receive. 

All in all, I dunno.  I'd probably take the money and then spend it on something the government wouldn't want me to, just to spit in their eye.  Then I'd vote against 'em for giving me the money.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Above all, do NOT reward the politicians who made the tax credit available to you.  I would hope that your vote and your political allegiance cannot be bought that easily.

[MicroBalrog]

The government doesn't just take your money. It reduces your freedom. Who knows by what rate technological process is impaired by them regulating medical research, prohibiting stuff like cryonics and certain kinds of medical testing. Private space programs like Space Ship One were illegal up until Reagan's presidency, and I'm sure other stuff too. And even if you got assessed zero tax every year for the rest of your life, their rules and taxes and associated costs still affect you. They owe you for all that.

Also, a tax credit isn't a payment. You still need to EARN the money. It's your money. You've earned it. By law, you deserve the credit.

[Monkeyleg]

Above all, do NOT reward the politicians who made the tax credit available to you.  I would hope that your vote and your political allegiance cannot be bought that easily.

I guess I don't post often enough here for people to know how I think.

I live in an area that's probably 75% racist Democrat. I was just thinking that it might be fun to walk around the neighborhood after we get the house fixed up and say, "I just wanted to thank you for helping us pay for our new furnace with your vote for Obama. By the way, we've decided we're not going to sell the house, but instead we're going to rent it. I think you'll like our new tenants. They're black."

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Also, a tax credit isn't a payment. You still need to EARN the money. It's your money. You've earned it. By law, you deserve the credit.

I disagree.  He didn't do anything to earn $1500, he just installed a new furnace for himself.  He doesn't "deserve" anything at all for that, except to enjoy the benefits of having a new furnace.

Not saying he should or shouldn't accept the $1500 payoff, just saying that he didn't earn it.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I guess I don't post often enough here for people to know how I think.

I live in an area that's probably 75% racist Democrat. I was just thinking that it might be fun to walk around the neighborhood after we get the house fixed up and say, "I just wanted to thank you for helping us pay for our new furnace with your vote for Obama. By the way, we've decided we're not going to sell the house, but instead we're going to rent it. I think you'll like our new tenants. They're black."

I approve!

 

(Not that you need or want my approval)

[MicroBalrog]

I disagree.  He didn't do anything to earn $1500, he just installed a new furnace for himself.  He doesn't "deserve" anything at all for that, except to enjoy the benefits of having a new furnace.

Not saying he should or shouldn't accept the $1500 payoff, just saying that he didn't earn it.

Isn't a 'tax credit' just a fancy way of saying 'we will take less tax money from you'?

[digitalandanalog]

I have done my own taxes for many years and I recall something about tax credits for updating your home with energy efficient features in the tax books of the past few years.

It was/is an option for you anyway. You might just be entitled to keeping even more of your money this tax season.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Isn't a 'tax credit' just a fancy way of saying 'we will take less tax money from you'?

Tax credits aren't earned by their recipients, they're given by the government.

Besides, unless the reduction in taxes collected is offset by a similar reduction in government spending, then all they've accomplished is to shift the tax burden from one group of people to another.

[Monkeyleg]

Besides, unless the reduction in taxes collected is offset by a similar reduction in government spending, then all they've accomplished is to shift the tax burden from one group of people to another.

Yup, and in this case the irony is thick. I'd be getting a $1500 tax credit for a furnace installed by the small HVAC company owned by my brother-in-law, but his income is too high for him to qualify to be "stimulated," even though people in his income bracket are paying much more for everyone else's furnaces.

[MicroBalrog]

Tax credits aren't earned by their recipients, they're given by the government.

Besides, unless the reduction in taxes collected is offset by a similar reduction in government spending, then all they've accomplished is to shift the tax burden from one group of people to another.

So, are you telling me that any situation by which one person pays less taxes than another is unfair?

My logic is like this:

If the government can pass laws by which a person who has a given amount of income pays 10% of his income in taxes, but another person pays 30%, then it flows that the government may tax different people at different rates. In my deranged, stupid mind, taxing one person less (as a percentage) because they're 'poorer' is not anyhow better than taxing a person less because they have a kind of car or furnace the government wants to encourage.

Now, should a person who's supposed to be paying 10% of his income in taxes go and donate 25% more to the IRS so as to be fair to the guy who pays 35%?

Again, none of these people are being GIVEN money, they're just having less TAKEN from them.

Does this all sound convoluted and wrong?

[Monkeyleg]

MicroBalog, I guess I'm too tired to follow your question.

Let me rephrase my last post to better illustrate the irony.

My brother-in-law is going to install a furnace for me. I'm going to pay $1500 less for the job after taxes. At the same time, he's going to pay $1500 more out of his profit from furnace installations such as mine to fund furnace installations such as mine.

If he gets too much work installing furnaces, he just might go broke.

[longeyes]

What's to debate?  The good guys need to survive and prosper.  This is war. 

Take what the enemy gives you.

[seeker_two]

Take everything you can from the gov't....then vote to throw the bums out...

[Strings]

>Something tells me that my wife is going to beat me up on April 15, 2010 for not taking a tax credit. That won't be stimulating.<

Are you SURE that wouldn't be stimulating? By now, I'd almost think her beating you would count as "affection"...

[mtnbkr]

By now, I'd almost think her beating you would count as "affection"...

That has been a long running joke between me and my wife since before we were married. :D

Chris

[Strings]

You have no idea how many times I wondered if his wife was just gonna shoot him: from 3am calls from legiscritters to using his .45 to "handle" a squirrel in the livingroom, that woman has put up with a LOT of grief...

[Waitone]

. . . . using his .45 to "handle" a squirrel in the livingroom

There has to be a back story.  What is it?

[GigaBuist]

MicroBalog, I guess I'm too tired to follow your question.

Let me rephrase my last post to better illustrate the irony.

My brother-in-law is going to install a furnace for me. I'm going to pay $1500 less for the job after taxes. At the same time, he's going to pay $1500 more out of his profit from furnace installations such as mine to fund furnace installations such as mine.

If he gets too much work installing furnaces, he just might go broke.

The math doesn't add up there unless there's a special "earned income from installing high efficiency furnaces" bit going into the tax code.

[roo_ster]

Isn't a 'tax credit' just a fancy way of saying 'we will take less tax money from you'?

Yes.  It differs from a deduction in that a deduction just removes the amount of income from being taxed.

There is no moral quandary, here.  If one thinks so, don't deduct mortgage interest from one's taxes or any of all that.  Just take the standard deduction and call it a day.

"Towards the government I feel no scruples and would dodge paying the
[income] tax if I could. Yet I would give my life for England readily
enough, if I thought it necessary. No one is patriotic about taxes."
----George Orwell's Wartime Diary, 8/9/40

Example:

$100K income, 35% income tax = $35K taxes.

$10k in deductions would leave $90k left to be taxed at the 35% rate for $31.5k in taxes.

A $1.5k tax credit would directly lower that tax bill by $1.5k, leaving $30K taxes to be paid to Uncle Sugar.

[Monkeyleg]

. . . . using his .45 to "handle" a squirrel in the livingroom
____________________________________
There has to be a back story.  What is it?

Waitone, the "back story" is here.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

god!  that was funny!   was better than the frantic call i got from a friend who needed a new stove right away! and some siding! had tried to shoot the salt and pepper shaker off stove while drunk and wife was outa town