Author Topic: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers  (Read 8295 times)

Balog

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Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« on: May 18, 2015, 12:09:04 PM »
http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article/20150518/PRINTEDITION/305159970

Not looking good for them, and I always hate to see a gun manufacturer gets dicked over by f-troop. I found it interesting that they turn out over 12000 lowers a month.
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brimic

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 12:48:04 PM »
I have to ask... who did Stag Arms harm with their administrative error?
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 12:57:38 PM »
Themselves. And perhaps their workers depending on the fallout


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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 01:16:26 PM »
I have to ask... who did Stag Arms harm with their administrative error?

they hurt the feelings of a useless parasite "bureaucrat colossus" 
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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Andiron

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 01:40:25 PM »
Speaking of F troop,  anyone ever hear anything about Cav Arms?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Scout26

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 03:55:45 PM »
This
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1003311_CAV_ARMS_LOSES_FFL_TO_ATF_and_OWNER_ADMITS_TO_ILLEGALLY_SELLING_40_GUNS__COULD_DO_TIME_.html


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But it's all Oak-a-ley Dok-a-ley when the same .gov bureaucrats do it.

P.S.

Quote
Vincent said as much as 90 percent of the government's original case against Cavalry was dismissed, leaving his client pleading guilty to selling to an out-of-state buyer.
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brimic

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 04:01:31 PM »
Themselves. And perhaps their workers depending on the fallout


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Harmed by .gov that is...
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 04:05:01 PM »
Were they good boys just turning their life around?


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Scout26

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 05:48:51 PM »
Were they good boys just turning their life around?


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I presume you are talking about the agents of the ATF's Phoenix Office whch would have done the Stag Arms thing, you know, after the whole Fast and Furious thing.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 06:30:21 PM »
That could apply too I was thinking more of this
http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-cavalry-arms-owner-pleads-guilty


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

brimic

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 07:12:39 PM »
That could apply too I was thinking more of this
http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-cavalry-arms-owner-pleads-guilty


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who did cavalry arms harm?
The atf exists only to terrorize the gun industry and gun owners with administrative laws that they themselves don't even understand. IIRC, they went after Cavalry arms and stole all if their working capital at gunpoint because of some unintelligible arcane law about injection moulding dies being stired at the wrong location.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 07:39:26 PM »
I would have had the lowers serialized within 24 hours of the feds visiting. 

dogmush

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 07:42:39 PM »
who did cavalry arms harm?
The atf exists only to terrorize the gun industry and gun owners with administrative laws that they themselves don't even understand. IIRC, they went after Cavalry arms and stole all if their working capital at gunpoint because of some unintelligible arcane law about injection moulding dies being stired at the wrong location.

Not just the Gun industry.  Moonshiners and Indians, too.

MechAg94

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 07:43:03 PM »
I would have had the lowers serialized within 24 hours of the feds visiting. 
yeah, I agree.  I have never dealt with the ATF, but I have dealt with environmental regulators.  If you have a problem, you fix it immediately and tell them you fixed it and set up procedures to make sure it doesn't need to be fixed again.  Not trying to judge this.  Govt regulators can make your life hell.  Gotta work self defense in more ways than one.

What I don't like is the apparent attitude of the agent that everyone is guilty and breaking the law, they just haven't found the evidence yet.
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MechAg94

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 07:43:56 PM »
Not just the Gun industry.  Moonshiners and Indians, too.
The statement could describe any federal regulators and anyone they regulate. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

dogmush

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 07:56:34 PM »
True, the ATF is just bigger dicks about it. As you correctly noted, they assume everyone is breaking the law and they will find the evidence soon.

This hasn't been the case with the OSHA, EPA, and USCG regulators i've  dealt with personally.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2015, 07:57:26 PM »
who did cavalry arms harm?
The atf exists only to terrorize the gun industry and gun owners with administrative laws that they themselves don't even understand. IIRC, they went after Cavalry arms and stole all if their working capital at gunpoint because of some unintelligible arcane law about injection moulding dies being stired at the wrong location.

The injection molding story was the one pitched to us initially by the cavalry arms folks. When they were raising funds fir legal defense. The truth came out later , much later.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

brimic

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2015, 08:08:00 PM »
yeah, I agree.  I have never dealt with the ATF, but I have dealt with environmental regulators.  If you have a problem, you fix it immediately and tell them you fixed it and set up procedures to make sure it doesn't need to be fixed again.  Not trying to judge this.  Govt regulators can make your life hell.  Gotta work self defense in more ways than one.

What I don't like is the apparent attitude of the agent that everyone is guilty and breaking the law, they just haven't found the evidence yet.

I've dealt with the DNR, DEA, and ATF in my role in my last job. while the DNR was state, the ither two were federal.
DEA was the most lax, or at least the most understanding with our processes. We processed hundreds of kilos of morphine, codeine, and fentanyl derivitives. We kept very good records,  but If a chemist were to charge, say, 5kgs of morphine to a reactor, and the gross, tare, net were off by 5gm on a container, the DEA would be peperfectly fine and not call it a diversion if 2 chemists witnessed the process.
I found the DEA to be very professional to deal wwith.
The DNR had odd rules, uf they found you in accidental violation, they made allowances for you to update your practices and systems.
The DNR was strict, but nit hard to deal with.
The ATF audited us on our ethanol records (for taxation purposes).  I found the atf agents to be petty dick heads. They had the least important auditing job but certainly made up for their relative unimportance with their little man syndrome.
Whatever respect I may have had for them before as at least law enforcement agents rapidly approached zero.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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brimic

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2015, 08:12:41 PM »
The injection molding story was the one pitched to us initially by the cavalry arms folks. When they were raising funds fir legal defense. The truth came out later , much later.


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I'm sure that truth was coerced to change by a gestapo agency backed by the federal government  its large army of tyranical lawyers,
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2015, 08:24:37 PM »
He plead guilty to what amounted to serial criminal stupid.


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

brimic

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2015, 08:33:11 PM »
He plead guilty to what amounted to serial criminal stupid.


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Regardless, stupid shouldn't be a crminal offense, while running guns to drug cartels which gets Americans killed needs to be.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2015, 08:55:05 PM »
Very true


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MechAg94

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Re: Bad news: feds raid Stag Arms over unserialized lowers
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2015, 10:15:34 PM »
I thought I heard the Cav Arms thing amounted to using a 3rd party to make the plastic receivers in 2 halves then allowing the 3rd party to have both halves of the mold and receivers at the same time.  The latter was something I think they were repeatedly told not to do.  I am not sure how many warnings or how firm the warnings were, but supposedly they were aware of the problem. 

The problem here with Stag about the receivers could almost be something to manufacturing guys were doing without others in the know, but hard to say.  I don't know how big their operation is.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge