Author Topic: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.  (Read 10232 times)

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« on: June 15, 2015, 12:34:58 AM »
Seems the popo got some explaining yet to do.

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Four weeks after the deadly May 17th shooting incident outside a Waco Twin Peaks restaurant, more details have come out concerning the incident, but significant questions still remain about the actions taken by law enforcement and the police’s account of what transpired.

Although the national mainstream media has largely moved on from the Waco story, if critics of the police are correct, the incident represents an unprecedented civil rights violation and media cover-up campaign by the Waco authorities.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/06/14/four-weeks-later-waco-police-narrative-unravels/

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sumpnz

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2015, 01:38:17 AM »
It'll be memory holed.  Unless some network like Fox can keep it up front.  Which is highly doubtful.

MechAg94

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2015, 09:43:39 AM »
Does anyone know how many they still have in custody versus any that were released? 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 04:06:33 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

TechMan

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2015, 04:59:20 PM »
I remember reading somewhere that they were offering a lower bond/no bond if the person would sign an agreement not to sue anybody and their brother.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2015, 05:03:00 PM »
I remember someone on here speculating about that as a possibility . Not even countercurrent news or cop block has said it out loud


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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HankB

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2015, 05:42:56 PM »
I remember reading somewhere that they were offering a lower bond/no bond if the person would sign an agreement not to sue anybody and their brother.
If true, the sounds suspiciously like extortion to me . . .
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2015, 06:01:30 PM »
None of the angry folks who bailed out have claimed it so it's still in the al jones zone


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cordex

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2015, 08:20:32 PM »
More telling, none of the lawyers for folks who haven't bailed out have claimed it.

I am shocked that with all the cops on scene they only managed to fire a dozen shots between them with most not shooting at all.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2015, 08:24:09 PM »
Tough spot lots of folks running around uncertain backdrops lots of innocents and even some kids
No easy shots


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2015, 09:32:27 PM »
Tough spot lots of folks running around uncertain backdrops lots of innocents and even some kids
No easy shots


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When has that slowed down a police shooting gallery in the past?
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 11:38:43 AM »
 ???

What's the deal here?  Is there some sort of conspiracy theory surrounding this biker shooting?

MechAg94

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 01:24:11 PM »
When has that slowed down a police shooting gallery in the past?

You mean in New York or in Texas?
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brimic

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2015, 04:33:13 PM »
http://www.agingrebel.com/13021

Some LOL-worthy commentary in there...
Blogger whines about 'alternative MCs' like 'Iron Brigade' made up of cops/prison guards/soldiers which apparently doesn't have the honor or exclusivity of Banditos and who don't follow the natural order of things in the biker world.   
Hello pot, meet kettle.     :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2015, 05:06:21 PM »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

MechAg94

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2015, 06:50:00 PM »
Here's the back peddle on the bond reduction blackmail story
http://kdhnews.com/news/texas/attorneys-waco-shooting-detainees-could-be-legal-liability/article_0bed7304-08e1-11e5-894e-a7ed4c5d990b.html?mode=jqm


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It always amazes me how much time the authorities are allowed to hold a person if they don't bail out especially if the judge is inclined to side with the prosecution. 

I am also inclined to agree with the comments in the article that they seem to be assuming guilt and letting people go when they prove they are innocent. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Perd Hapley

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 11:19:00 PM »
???

What's the deal here?  Is there some sort of conspiracy theory surrounding this biker shooting?

If this helps:

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/18/what-really-happened-in-the-waco-motorcy
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cordex

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2015, 10:12:49 AM »
I am interested in what the autopsies will show.  Unless the evidence the police have described so far regarding the rounds fired by bikers vs cops is an outright fabrication, I am highly suspicious that this was a case of police slaughtering a bunch of innocent bystanders to a friendly scuffle.

There may well be legitimate gripes relating to the mass arrest, high bail and continued confinement but that remains to be seen.

MechAg94

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2015, 02:17:38 PM »
If this helps:

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/18/what-really-happened-in-the-waco-motorcy
I am not sure if I would label that conspiracy theory just yet.  If the video or autopsy or ballistics evidence is never released, then it could be.  Right now, it is still in limbo until people are either released or put on trial.  The scenario presented makes sense if you assume the cops were over-zealous and trying to avoid taking blame.  I think it is already clear the cops were sort of doing a scorched earth approach to arrests. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

cordex

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2015, 10:41:23 PM »
I am interested in what the autopsies will show.
The autopsies were released a couple of days ago.

There were a total of five bullets for which the diameter was not described or had passed through and were not found.  There was one bullet that was described as small caliber.  There were 7 bullets which were described as medium caliber, 6 of which were marked with a similar pattern.  There was one bullet that was described as medium to large.

Many of the recovered bullets had markings.  In one case, all three injuries contained bullets bearing the same markings.  I've not heard of this before.  My first thought was marked bullets issued to police, but they were described as "medium caliber" which does not fit with .223 bullets.  These marked bullets were used to kill two Cossacks, one Bandido, one Scimitar and one unaffiliated biker.  The range of deceased affiliations also made me wonder if the police had fired these, but it could just as easily be a chaotic shootout in a crowded area, or even shooters on both sides of the biker conflict using the same brand of ammunition.  Edit: I just pulled a 9mm Ranger T bullet and it didn't have any markings.  Anyone see this anywhere?

I thought it was interesting that some of the deceased Cossacks had 5 "white metal, large caliber" unfired cartridges in their vest pockets.  I wonder if this is some sort of a reference by the Cossack MC to the cartridges that the Cossacks wore on their dress uniform.


The results:
Daniel Raymond Boyett - Cossack - died of two gunshot wounds to the head.  One bullet is described as a "deformed, copper-jacket base" as well as copper jacket and lead fragments.  The other is described as a "deformed bullet".  He received a third grazing wound with lead and copper jacket fragments found in the wound.

Wayne Lee Campbell - Cossack - died of a single gunshot wound to the lower face that entered into his torso.  The recovered jacket was described as being small caliber the bullet fragmented significantly.  Thus, based on the ME's description, very likely killed by police.

Richard Mathew Jordan II - Cossack - described by some accounts as the first to die - took a "medium to large caliber" to the back of the head.  This bullet fragmented into two pieces that were recovered.

Richard Vincent Kirschner Jr. - Cossack - took three hits to the butt and legs.  All three jackets pulled from his body were marked in some variation of the following:
15
8016
TP
Recovered bullets are described variously as "fragments of a small caliber bullet", "fragments of a jacketed bullet", and "fragments of a jacketed medium caliber bullet".  I'm not sure what to think about this one.  Given identical markings on the bullets I'm assuming they were probably the same caliber but there are conflicting caliber assignments.  However, all other bullets with similar marks were described as "medium caliber", so I'm inclined to go that route.

Jacob Lee Rhyne - Cossack - took a bullet to the neck and a bullet to the stomach, both of which fragmented into "copper-colored jacket fragments and white metal fragments".  No description of bullet diameter.

Jesus Delgado Rodriguez - Unaffiliated - was shot in the head and a "copper-jacketed, slightly deformed, medium caliber" bullet was recovered.  The bullet was marked:
15
8021
CS
He was also shot in the back but that bullet passed through and was not recovered.  Based on the markings of the projectile, I'm inclined to think that this was the same type of bullet used to kill Kirschner, Manuel Rodriguez and Russell.

Manuel Isaac Rodriguez - Bandido - was shot in the head and a "severely deformed, apparent medium caliber, jacketed bullet" was recovered.  He was also shot in the back and a "moderately deformed, apparent medium caliber, jacketed bullet" was recovered.  This one was marked:
15
8023
SMH

Charles Wayne Russell - Cossack - was shot in the chest with a "medium caliber, minimally deformed bullet" that passed through his body but was trapped by his vest.  This bullet was marked:
15
08020
JU

Matthew Mark Smith - Scimitar - was shot in the back and the associated bullet was recovered and described as a "markedly-deformed, medium-caliber, jacketed projectile".  He was also shot in the abdomen but that bullet exited and was not recovered.

vaskidmark

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2015, 11:36:05 PM »
Did the coroner not weigh the bullets/fragments, or are you just not including that data?

"Medium-" to "large-caliber" is a useless description.  .223/5.56 is often described as "small caliber" but carries more energy than a.45acp.  45acp may be a "large-caliber" bullet but from what I read and hear folks are more likely to be carrying 9mm or .40S&W.  .38/.357 is becoming an "old man's" caliber like the .45acp.

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cordex

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2015, 12:15:10 AM »
Did the coroner not weigh the bullets/fragments, or are you just not including that data?
Yes, I am a total jackass who left out all the important data.  =)
Bullet weight and measured diameter were not included in the autopsies, just the ME's interpretation of size where noted.  Each autopsy noted that they photographed and bagged the recovered bullets and sent them on to the Criminal Investigation Laboratory.  No photographs were included in the autopsies I saw.

"Medium-" to "large-caliber" is a useless description.
Agreed, except inasmuch as it would seem to imply that those bullets were not fired by police who only admitted to firing 12 rounds of .223 ... unless even .223s are bigger in Tejas.

HankB

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Re: Any new news on this? Waco biker shootings.
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2015, 11:13:09 AM »
Here's the back peddle on the bond reduction blackmail story
http://kdhnews.com/news/texas/attorneys-waco-shooting-detainees-could-be-legal-liability/article_0bed7304-08e1-11e5-894e-a7ed4c5d990b.html?mode=jqm
The money quote from the linked story: "It’s a small town and the expense is going to be millions. Defending these lawsuits is going to be seven figures. The settlements are going to be very damaging to a town that size."

Reminds me of a case some years back where a guy won a big suit against a small town - a reporter asked him how he felt that " . . . the innocent people of the town will have sharply higher taxes for the town to pay the judgement . . ."

He replied with words to the effect that the settlement came about directly because of the policies and practices implemented by the people they'd elected, and since it's going to cost them some big money, maybe in the future they'll be more careful about who they vote for.  =D
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
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Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2015, 01:01:24 PM »
If the city wins they go after legal costs. That discourages bad cases

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I