Author Topic: Presidents and security clearances (Read 2661 times)

mtnbkr · « **on:** April 09, 2008, 06:24:42 AM »

Manedwolf's comment in this thread http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=11838.msg210943#msg210943 regarding yanking Carter's security clearances got me thinking...

1st, when, if ever do they remove a past President's clearances?

2nd, given the quality of some of our Presidents and candidates, what happens if there is one who couldn't get a clearance? Honestly, just some of the known activities would put the average person in jeopardy of losing a decent clearance, much less the ones a President must be able to acquire.

Anyone know?

Chirs

wmenorr67 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2008, 06:36:19 AM »

All good questions.

The best of my knowledge is that there isn't much that a President isn't privy too.

As for former Presidents it probably is to some extent left up to the current President as to how much is passed on.

A good read would be "Write It After I'm Gone," or something to that effect. It is a book based on "off the records" interviews with President Ford.

What is more interesting is that some members of Congress cannot participate in certain closed door meetings since they are unable to get or have the proper clearance.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #2 on:** April 09, 2008, 06:45:33 AM »

Quote from: mtnbkr on April 09, 2008, 05:24:42 AM

2nd, given the quality of some of our Presidents and candidates, what happens if there is one who couldn't get a clearance? Honestly, just some of the known activities would put the average person in jeopardy of losing a decent clearance, much less the ones a President must be able to acquire.

I'm not sure either, but the thought of a President Obama divulging top secret intelligence from a Pentagon briefing to his friend the America-hating Reverend Wright over dinner just gave me a nasty shiver. Tongue

As for Carter, I have no idea of the protocols...I just hope he doesn't have any clearances!

K Frame · « **Reply #3 on:** April 09, 2008, 06:49:50 AM »

A lot of what a President has access to as part of his job goes away the second he leaves office.

doc2rn · « **Reply #4 on:** April 09, 2008, 09:33:48 AM »

A President has clearance that is subject to being a governmental employee. As long as he is an employee of the government he retains his credentials, when he retires (not just leaves office) his clearance is recended (?SP) not revoked. There will always be a tiered formation with people in different places at different times to maintain the stability of the US.

K Frame · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2008, 09:48:56 AM »

Doc,

I wasn't saying that this clearance is rescinded.

I was saying that his ability to SEE materials at his clearance level goes away.

Just because you have the proper clearance level does NOT mean that you have the Need to Know.

I have a secret level, but there is a TON of stuff on my project that I don't see because I don't have need to know.

Leatherneck · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2008, 10:38:26 AM »

POTUS by definition is THE classification authority, at least for DoD and related organizations.

But what (s)he doesn't know to ask won't be answered. There's the rub. I'm sure there have been presidents blissfully ignorant of some things.

TC

mtnbkr · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2008, 10:43:55 AM »

Ok, but what happens when a Prez does something that would be cause for yanking a regular joe's clearance? What about presidential candidates that couldn't get a clearance?

Or, is there just not such a thing? A President by nature of being selected "by the people" is automatically granted access to everything (assuming they know to ask)?

Chris

Leatherneck · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2008, 11:24:19 AM »

That's about it Chris: the frantic efforts would be to cover it up if his "people" couldn't prevent it in the first place. Unthinkable that anybody has the authority to "pull" his clearance.

TC

K Frame · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2008, 11:25:25 AM »

"Ok, but what happens when a Prez does something that would be cause for yanking a regular joe's clearance?"

Send him to Dallas for a ride in an open car.

The Annoyed Man · « **Reply #10 on:** April 09, 2008, 11:30:16 AM »

Quote from: Mike Irwin on April 09, 2008, 10:25:25 AM

"Ok, but what happens when a Prez does something that would be cause for yanking a regular joe's clearance?"

Send him to Dallas for a ride in an open car.

^^
This one knows too much. Target him for immediate elimination.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2008, 11:30:43 AM »

Quote from: Mike Irwin on April 09, 2008, 10:25:25 AM

"Ok, but what happens when a Prez does something that would be cause for yanking a regular joe's clearance?"

Send him to Dallas for a ride in an open car.

Uh-oh.

(If this was a public forum, that'd start a throwing-chairs bar brawl of a flamewar) cheesy

"GRASSY KNOLL!" "DID NOT!" "CAN'T SHOOT THAT QUICKLY!" "I CAN YOU SUCK!" ...I'm sure you've seen one or two.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2008, 01:24:17 PM »

Newb question: Is this not a public forum?

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2008, 01:46:07 PM »

Quote from: Manedwolf on April 09, 2008, 10:30:43 AM

Quote from: Mike Irwin on April 09, 2008, 10:25:25 AM

"Ok, but what happens when a Prez does something that would be cause for yanking a regular joe's clearance?"

Send him to Dallas for a ride in an open car.

Uh-oh.

(If this was a public forum, that'd start a throwing-chairs bar brawl of a flamewar) cheesy

"GRASSY KNOLL!" "DID NOT!" "CAN'T SHOOT THAT QUICKLY!" "I CAN YOU SUCK!" ...I'm sure you've seen one or two.

Jackie O did it with a derringer in her purse. LBJ probably put her up to it. grin

I need to visit Dealey Plaza this weekend.

vaskidmark · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2008, 01:49:09 PM »

There are a number of fairly credible assertions that FDR was taken off the list for seeing quite a bit of intel concerning the Japanese build-up to Pearl Harbor. Not having the access to the info that could positively confirm or deny those assertions I can only speculate on the level of reliability of each source.

Similarly, both Kennedy and Nixon were supposed to have been taken out of the loop regarding, respectively, Cuba and Vietnam. Some sugggestions were that it was for "plausible deniability" reasons, but some other sources strongly suggest security breaches were involved.

Churchill was denied access to much of the early information about radar and the breaking of the Enigma codes because of his propensity for blabbing stuff in radio speeches. There is rumor he was also kept out of the loop for the date/time of starting Operation Overlord, but that is related more to politics than anything else.

Going in the opposite direction, there is confirmed information that several Italian-Americans who were alleged to be members of a crime organization that never existed were given complete access to the invasion plans for Sicily and Italy.

Most of the above was decided by the military, without the advice/consent of Congress or Parliment. And history says that only the Japanese military was involved in running the political scene.

stay safe.

skidmark (who knows nothing, sees nothing, and was never there)

Dannyboy · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2008, 05:22:08 AM »

Are clearances permanent? I thought they were subject to a review/renewal process. I've been out of the military for close to 8 years, I can't imagine that mine is still valid. Although, I should probably look into that.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #16 on:** April 10, 2008, 05:41:31 AM »

They have to be renewed every 5 years I believe (at least the ones I hold do). However, renewal is much less painful than getting one from scratch, even if yours has been inactive for several years. My coworker and I applied for ours at the same time, but he got his in a few months while mine took about a year. He held a TS in the Air Force back in the 70s through 90s.

Chris

RevDisk · « **Reply #17 on:** April 10, 2008, 03:11:44 PM »

Quote from: mtnbkr on April 09, 2008, 09:43:55 AM

Ok, but what happens when a Prez does something that would be cause for yanking a regular joe's clearance? What about presidential candidates that couldn't get a clearance?

Or, is there just not such a thing? A President by nature of being selected "by the people" is automatically granted access to everything (assuming they know to ask)?

Chris

If the President does something that would get a regular joe's clearance revoked, he is either impeached or not. If he is not impeached, he's clear and he has all of the rights due to him as President. If he is impeached, the situation obviously corrects itself. The only part removed for the President or other certain officials is that the security folks do not have discretion in the matter.

If you're not top rung, you can get your clearance yanked for any reason. Nothing needs to be proved to yank your clearance, or simply not grant one. It's pretty rare, but it can happen. You have no legal right to a clearance.

This is obviously not the case for the President and the folks he or she appoints. The government is subordinate to the folks who are elected by us. By the virtue of being the choice of the people, the President is in charge of the executive branch of the government. The folks that issue clearances. The position comes with Need To Know, no questions asked.

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2008, 03:22:49 PM »

What a lot of people don't know is that elected officials don't undergo background checks to get their security clearances.

If not impeached or forced to resign for egregious violations of security rules, I'd wager their access would be consequently restricted.

Bill Clinton would still get pillow talk intel from Hillary were she to win the White House, guaranteed.

Straight from the Situation Room to the White House Master Bedroom, voila'! undecided

wmenorr67 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2008, 08:32:50 PM »

TS clearances are reviewed every 5 years and Secret clearances are reviewed every 10.

News:

Author Topic: Presidents and security clearances (Read 2661 times)