Author Topic: The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers  (Read 12724 times)

possenti

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2005, 06:17:26 AM »
Has anyone ever thought of THIS angle on the Phelps "crusade"?...

I wouldn't exactly call him an "agent provacateur", but what if he is a henchman for certain special interest groups?  What better way to embarrass and discredit REAL fundamentalist Christians - and their beliefs -  than to put this guy out in public and on the 'net to wail away like a madman?  If I wanted to smear a large group of conservatives, Rev. Phelps would be my secret weapon.  This moron is the leftist, pro-war media's poster boy.

Do you disapprove of homosexual behavior?  The Most Reverend Phelps does too!
Are you against abortion?  So is he!
You don't support foreign military entanglements?  Phelps doesn't either!

Who in the hell would want to be associated with this idiot?  He actually HELPS the causes he protests against by turning "Sunday-only Christians" away from beliefs that they would normally hold.  Of course, they wouldn't think of bombing abortion clinics or gay clubs, or picketing funerals, but they morally oppose those practices.  In fear of being associated with Phelps in different social situations, they keep their mouths shut and don't defend those beliefs.

My tinfoil is securely in place, so don't even start with that...

Nathaniel Firethorn

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2005, 06:19:46 AM »
Ugh. I'm getting a little whiff of another Waco in the making.

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RevDisk

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2005, 06:58:19 AM »
Possenti, he is definitely not an "agent provacateur".  He is a supposed priest that is mentally ill and full of hate.   He is indeed a Christian as he worships Christ.   Now, I'm a pagan, but I have read the Bible.   I personally don't think his savior would agree with most of what Phelps says.   I suppose that would make him a 'bad Christian'.   To each their own, I suppose.

There is a price for freedom.   One of them is dealing with wackos that love to protest.   As long as they stay non-violent, they can and should continue to be allowed to exist.   The Bill of Rights does not exist to protect the status quo, but rather to protect those that challenge the status quo.


If I saw them protesting the funeral of a buddy of mine waxed in Iraq, what would I do?  I don't know.  I like to think I'd respectfully ask them to leave first, then call the police.  I honestly hope I could restrain myself.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

RadioFreeSeaLab

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2005, 08:57:18 AM »
My point is that he isn't a Christian, because a Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ, and this guy does not.  Christ loved, this man hates.  Simple as that.

Ezekiel

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2005, 01:02:20 PM »
His daughter was my direct supervisor when I worked for the Kansas Department of Corrections.  While this is not direct "praise", I've never witnessed anyone who could seperate personal and professional lives as she could: I never got a WHIFF of this stuff during business.  She was merely all about schedule flexibility and spent weird hours at the office because she was always going somewhere [to protest].

I've seen this stuff CLOSE...
Zeke

Stand_watie

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2005, 04:38:00 PM »
Quote from: RevDisk
Possenti, he is definitely not an "agent provacateur".  He is a supposed priest that is mentally ill and full of hate.   He is indeed a Christian as he worships Christ.   Now, I'm a pagan, but I have read the Bible.   I personally don't think his savior would agree with most of what Phelps says.   I suppose that would make him a 'bad Christian'.   To each their own, I suppose.
We don't know who Phelps worships. We only have the statements made by an obviously vile person to go by. From what I recall Hitler and Himmler publically allied themselves at various times with both pagan and Christian belief systems, but that doesn't mean that either one of them was either.

I would submit to you Christ's words as the better indicator of what denotes a Christian than what a person claims to be.

Matthew 7

Quote
Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

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Perd Hapley

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2005, 07:54:12 PM »
Quote
Has anyone ever thought of THIS angle on the Phelps "crusade"?...

...what if he is a henchman for certain special interest groups?  What better way to embarrass and discredit REAL fundamentalist Christians...
Actually, I said the following about 15 posts ago:

Quote
So, which homosexual group is funding this guy whose only business seems to be embarassing conservative Christians?
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Perd Hapley

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2005, 08:04:19 PM »
Hunter Rose,

If I understand correctly, an IED was detonated in or near Phelp's church.  Naturally, this act was committed by the fag-loving people of America (the modern Sodom).  As Phelps is God's second in command, it naturally follows that any American thereafter killed by an IED is being punished by God for this attack on His holy global headquarters there in Topeka.  Pretty clear, I think.

Read the first link in the initial post.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

S. Williamson

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2005, 10:01:19 PM »
Just as Jesus is exacting His revenge every time somebody gets injured by falling on a pyracanthea (sp?) bush, or stepping on a nail, or... rolleyes

Quote
fistful: Almost agreed, Wasr.  As a Christian, I will be sad if he doesn't actually repent and believe before he dies.  I don't like to sit in JUDGEMENT of another's salvation, but he doesn't show much fruit of the Spirit; i.e. faith, hope, love, etc.
Problem with Phelps (and, I gotta say, religion in general) is that he KNOWS he's Right (whether he actually is or isn't).  As far as he is concerned, he has nothing for which to repent, and so never shall.

And as for the "You can't spell fundamentalist without fun!" and "You can't have fundamentalist without mental!" people, don't forget that you can't have Fundamentalist without "Dam!" and... well, "ist" either.
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Perd Hapley

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2005, 11:04:32 PM »
D,

Do you know that you're right about that?

Are you implying that religious people think they have nothing for which to repent?  I would look more to an atheist for that line of thought.  

"You can't spell fundamentalist without ist" just lacks something, but it is funny in its own little ironic way.  

Quote
Just as Jesus is exacting His revenge every time somebody gets injured by falling on a pyracanthea (sp?) bush, or stepping on a nail, or...
No, no.  Only if someone hurts the one true church of Most Reverend Phelps with said bush or nail.  

You can't spell fundamentalist without ntalis.
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RevDisk

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2005, 03:33:22 AM »
Quote
We don't know who Phelps worships. We only have the statements made by an obviously vile person to go by. From what I recall Hitler and Himmler publically allied themselves at various times with both pagan and Christian belief systems, but that doesn't mean that either one of them was either.
Yep, we can only understand people by their spoken word.  According to Christian doctrine (as I understand it, and I fully admit I might be wrong), actions are important but not as important as faith.  ie, if a Christian worships his savior/deity and repents for his sins, he can go to heaven even if he's an axe murderer.  

"When a man who accepts the Christian doctrine lives unworthily of it, it is much clearer to say he is a bad Christian than to say he is not a Christian."   - C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity


Sides, I think it is much more telling that Hitler was a vegetarian and a non-smoker.  Those non-meat eaters and darn pink lung'ers are always causing nothing but trouble.   (I'm kidding, I swear!)



Quote
His daughter was my direct supervisor when I worked for the Kansas Department of Corrections.  While this is not direct "praise", I've never witnessed anyone who could seperate personal and professional lives as she could: I never got a WHIFF of this stuff during business.  She was merely all about schedule flexibility and spent weird hours at the office because she was always going somewhere [to protest].
I've seen this stuff CLOSE...
Ouch, Ezekiel.   While I vastly admire professionalism, I'd personally would be nervous working directly under a fundimentalist wacko.   A lifetime of experience taught me religious wackos are nothing but trouble.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

roo_ster

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2005, 04:55:34 AM »
Quote
Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.
According to apocryphal sources, in the original Ghostbusters script, Venkman's (Bill Murray) last line reads, "Avowed pagans citing CS Lewis - mass hysteria." Wink
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Bemidjiblade

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2005, 12:30:18 PM »
man...

This is the last place I'd expect to run into this Phelps idiot.

There is no debate as to whether or not Phelps is a Christian.  No matter what he proposes to believe or worship, he does not match the Biblical requirements for admission:

Quote
1 John 4:20-21 (ESV)  
    If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. [21] And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
There is no denying that this man hates.  He's dedicated his life to hatred.  I don't have to disqualify him as a Christian when God's Word already has.

That being said, I've run into him personally.  I was attending an Exodus International conference in Minneapolis about a year ago when I had the priviledge of being picketed by our good friend.

I know that many of you do not believe what I believe, but please, please believe what others have said here; that most conservative Christians are completely different than this man.

Yes, we believe that homosexuality is a sin.  But we also believe that there are no sins greater than any others.  So I cannot say "God hates fags"  (my hands twinge simply typing such a thing) unless I'm also willing to say that "God hates gossips, slanderers, cowards, anyone who has ever yelled at their parents, anyone who has ever used magic or the occult, anyone who has ever been angry at someone etc etc etc."

There is a growing movement of conservative Christians who are reaching out in love to people who wrestle with homosexual attractions in a way that both fits what we believe as well as the supreme command to "Love one another".

http://www.exodus.to/
and the branch that I work with personally,
http://www.keysministry.com/

But in fairness, I wanted to include the theological statments of mainstream 'conservative' Christian denominations about people with homosexual feelings:

Here is the position of my church, the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod.
Quote from: LCMS
Resolved, That the goals to be pursued by such a plan for ministry be

1.  to offer to our world biblically alternative models of sexual celibacy outside of a committed, permanent heterosexual marriage and same-gender social, but not genitally sexual, deep friendships;
2.  to confront the individual with his/her sinfulness, and call him/her to repentance;
3.  to help the individual recognize that God can rescue individuals from homosexual orientation and practice;
4.  to assure him/her of forgiveness in Christ, contingent upon sincere repentance and faith in Christ, and to assure him/her of the love and acceptance of the church;
to assist the individual to rely on Christ's love and strength to abstain from homophile behavior;
5.  to help the individual to bear his/her burden without fear of recrimination and rejection by his/her sisters and brothers in Christ;
6.  to find ways of ministering to families which include persons of homophile orientation;
7.  to do all this patiently, persistently, and compassionately in the love and Spirit of Christ, who says, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2724

So yes, there are many Christian church bodies that see homosexual ACTIVITY as a sin.  But to the best of my knowledge, there are very few Christian bodies, and I would be more than willing to debate whether or not they were actually following the tenets of our beliefs, that would say anything as horrible as the idea that God hates anyone.  God hates BEHAVIORS, sure, but not people.

Sean Smith

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2005, 12:58:37 PM »
Quote from: wasrjoe
Would I kill the guy? Of course not. A Twain quote comes to mind, though...

"I've never killed a man, but I've read many an obituary with a great deal of satisfaction." I wouldn't shed a tear over his passing.
Got to love Twain.  That says it all for me.  They guy is a friut loop undeserving of attention, except maybe psychiatric.

Strings

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2005, 02:37:36 PM »
Bemidjiblade: "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner"? That what you're trying to say? Wink

Guest

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2005, 03:45:46 PM »
I wonder why churches are never so busy drafting statements on single people having sex with someone of the opposite gender as they do about single people having sex with someone of the same gender.

grampster

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2005, 05:40:45 PM »
Bemidji,

  Not a Lutheran, me, but +1 brother.
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Stand_watie

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2005, 06:20:07 PM »
Quote from: Barbara
I wonder why churches are never so busy drafting statements on single people having sex with someone of the opposite gender as they do about single people having sex with someone of the same gender.
My guess would be because unlike homosexuality, fornication is covered so frequently and completely in the New Testament, that there is no debate whatsoever on it within mainstream Christian churches. Again to quote Christ..

Quote
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
I have yet to see a doctrinal statement on murder either.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

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Bemidjiblade

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2005, 06:38:15 PM »
Barbara,

Thank you for the input.

I looked up the table about human sexuality from my church:
Quote
Family / Marriage / Sexuality
  Is homosexuality accepted in the LCMS and can an open homosexual serve in any position in your church?

What is the LCMS policy regarding interdenominational or interfaith marriages? Is there anything that must be "promised" about children of these marriages?

Please give me some insight to the following quote from the Portals of Prayer, June 18, 2, devotional: "God gives each of us roles to fill. The father is to be the spiritual leader in the family. He is to see that his children are baptized, that they come daily to God's Word and learn of God's salvation through His Son. He is to teach them the difference between right and wrong." This is a great example of how a family can work. However, I am a divorced mother and there is no man in our household. Is the church's stance on the father being the spiritual leader of the family so strong that the church would believe our family is spiritually "lost" because we have no male person as head of our household? Or is it that the word "father" here is used in more of a role title rather than only suggest gender?

What is the Missouri Synod's response to homosexuality?

If an engaged couple has sex before marriage, is the child conceived still considered a blessing? Is the sexual act, though the couple love each other and are promised to each other, still a sin? Is the child conceived by an act of sinful nature, lust?

How does the Missouri Synod's position on marriage differ from that of the Southern Baptist Convention that states that women should "graciously submit" to their husbands? I am undergoing premarital counseling and am wondering at what point it becomes required to "obey" my future husband. Is it now that we are engaged, or is it after we actually say our vows? Does church doctrine require that the word obey remain in the vows? If the church acknowledges that there are acceptable wedding vows other than the vows used by the church, why can't a marrying couple agree to modify the vows to remove the word obey?

How is divorce viewed in the LCMS?

What is the Synod's view on masturbation? Are there any references to self-pleasurement in the Bible? I was asked this question and I did not know how to respond other than, "I know it cannot be right in God's eyes." However, I do not have any theological proof. Can you help out?
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2538
As far as I can tell, there are 2x as many issues about heterosexual issues as there are homosexual issues presented by my church's FAQ trees and websites.

That being said, homosexuality is a major issue in modern culture, and any religious or philosophical group that wants to responsibly address the things their people deal with is going to be increasingly focused on this.

As a man who is homosexual by orientation and celibate by religious preference, I'm very grateful that churches are finally moving away from the "old catholic" and the "God hates fags" type of attitude and moving towards finding ways of showing love and grace to those affected, family, friends, and homosexuals, that both meets their worldviews and shows love to all involved.

Stand_watie

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2005, 06:44:12 PM »
Quote
Yep, we can only understand people by their spoken word.  According to Christian doctrine (as I understand it, and I fully admit I might be wrong), actions are important but not as important as faith.  ie, if a Christian worships his savior/deity and repents for his sins, he can go to heaven even if he's an axe murderer
Yes, I'd agree that that's essentially it in a nutshell. Not just Christianity, but Old Testament Judaism as well - King David was an adulterer and a murderer and the Bible describes him as 'a man after God's own heart'. It's important to put that message in context though -look to the book of James for the flip side of what God demands of Christians

James 2

Quote
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatand shudder. You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

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"Never again"

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Bemidjiblade

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2005, 06:49:22 PM »
Ok... so Phelps might not spend eternity burning in hell if he ever gets his head out of... darker places (Blushes and looks nervously around for Art's g-ma).  But right now he's sure doing a lot more harm than good.

Stand_watie

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2005, 07:01:33 PM »
deleted - I got an answer to my question, but it took the subject a little too far off track.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2005, 12:09:17 AM »
We need a head shaking smiley.

Bemidjiblade

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2005, 03:13:14 AM »
Stand_watie... I'm sending a PM

Stand_watie

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The Devil Reverend Phelps pickets Funerals of Fallen Soldiers
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2005, 05:03:05 AM »
Got it, thanks.
Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am

"You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

"Never again"

"Malone Labe"