Trojan Horse, anyone?

[matis]

Think they'll allow us to choose the color of our prayer rugs?




We hear you loud and clear, MUSLIMS SPEAK PUBLICALLY ABOUT THE WEST
D.C.Watson
January 01, 2006


http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/009630.php
D. C. Watson collects some interesting quotations that portray Muslims in the West in a somewhat different light from what you might hear from, say, Allen Colmes:

What have the spokespersons for the Muslim community in Western nations been saying in public? That they only want to be a part of Western culture? That they only hope for mutual respect? That they are living out their dream of being residents of welcomed plurality in the most advanced nations in the world? Well, not exactly.
 
The nice thing about the United States and the West in general is the fact that we can make up our own minds. We can review information and arrive at our own conclusions. The following information is intended to give you another opportunity to do this.
 
Introducing those who have spoken publicly as representatives of Islam in the West:


United States: We must not forget that Allah's rules have to be established in all lands..." ~ Imam Muzammil H. Siddiqi, Islamic Society of North America
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009583.php

United States: Ultimately we can never be full citizens of this country. . . because there is no way we can be fully committed to the institutions and ideologies of this country ~ Ihsan Bagby.
http://www.nationalreview.com/mowbray/mowbray040303.asp

Great Britain: "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians&Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value." ~ British career welfare recipient Sheikh Omar Bakri
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2005/07/007262print.html

United States: To permit Islam to attain its rightful place requires that the ideology of Islam prevail over the mental horizon of the American people. ~ Shamim A. Siddiqi
http://www.lorenzenfamily.com/paul/islam/militant-islam.html

United States: I have a vision in America, Muslims owning property all over, Muslim businesses, factories, halal meat, supermarkets, all these buildings owned by Muslims. Can you see the vision, can you see the Newark International Airport and a John Kennedy Airport and LaGuardia having Muslim fleets of planes, Muslim pilots. Can you see our trucks rolling down the highways, Muslim names. ~ Imam Siraj Wahhaj
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/77

United States: TV Host Kathy Fountain to Ahmed Bedier: On the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Sami Al Arians involvement: Fountain asked, "If he was associating with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, doesn't that seem immoral, in your opinion?"
Answer: "To a certain degree. Now, before 1995 there was nothing immoral about it." ~Ahmed Bedier, the Communications Director of CAIR-Florida.
http://www.americansagainsthate.com/releases/PR-BedierPIJhtm

Britain: "The real weapons of mass destruction are the desire for martyrdom. Millions of you are ready to be shaheed. Half a million martyrdom shaheed is enough for Muslims to control the whole of earth forever. In the end of the day, Islam must control earth, whether we like it or not."~ Abu Hamza al! -Masri, Islamic Cleric
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/10435138?source=Evening%20Standard

United States: Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran&should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth. ~ Omar Ahmad, Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR).
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32341

Australia: "I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate. The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, has to be Islam"~ Abu Bakr, Muslim Cleric
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/11/07/australia.terror.bakr/

Canada: "We know what happened over the last week and how the brothers of the monkeys and the swine (Jews) assassinated and murdered one of the heroes of Islam, the Salah al-Din of this day and age, Ahmed Yassin." "Then what will happen? Listen to the good news after that. The prophet ... says that the stone and the tree will say, 'Oh Muslim, oh slave of Allah, that verily behind me is a Jew. Then come and kill him,'"~ Sheik Younus Kathrada
http://www.cbc.ca/bc/story/bc_abubaker20041022.html

United States: I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future. ~ Ibrahim Hooper, (CAIR).
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6473

Canada: Any Israeli over age 18 is a legitimate target for suicide bombers because adult Israelis were required to do military servic! e. They are part of the Israeli army, even if they have civilian clothes." Mohamed Elmasry, President, Canadian Islamic Congress.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/10/25/muslimleaders_041025.html

Australia/New Zealand: "We are proud of the Islamic resistance in Palestine, Lebanon, Kashmir, and everywhere in the world that seeks to achieve its legitimate rights in acco! rdance with the international resolutions, the human rights conventions, and the U.N. resolutions..."We are also proud of the Islamic resistance that liberated southern Lebanon, led by Hizbullah, the legitimate Lebanese national movement, that forced the Israeli occupation army to withdraw from southern Lebanon, dragging trails of disappointment and shame behind it.
"We are also proud of what Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are both doing in the occupied territories. We support the resistance and support, with all our might, the martyrdom operations carried out by the Palestinian liberation movements, operations that are a legitimate act against the cruel occupation, according to all international norms and conventions.
"Also, whoever carries out a martyrdom [operation] is a pure Shahid and one of the men of Paradise. Moreover, he stands at the head of the Shahids." ~ Taj Al-Din Hamed Abdallah Al-Hilali.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/000924.php

United States: "The first principle is that terrorism, and terrorism alone, is the path to liberation. . . . If what they mean by jihad is terrorism, then we are terrorists." ~ Fawaz Damra, Convicted Imam, Ohio
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/12230983.htm?source=rss&channel=miamiherald_state

United States: Let us continue the protests. Let us damn America. Let us damn Israel. Let us damn their allies until death. Mohammad is leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our path. Victory to Islam. Death to Israel. Revolution! Revolution! Until Victory! Rolling, rolling to Jerusalem. ~ Sami Al Arian
http://www.siteinstitute.org/bin/articles.cgi?ID=news5203&Category=news&Subcategory=0

United States: "The Day of Judgment will never happen until you fight the Jews. . . . The trees and stones will say, oh Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him!" ~ Hatem Bazian, Lecturer, University of California at Berkeley.
http://www.politicalusa.com/columnists/schlussel/schlussel_011.htm
United States: Muslims cannot accept the legitimacy of the secular system in the United States, for it "is against the orders and ordainments of Allah . . . the orientation of the Qur'an pushes us in the exact opposite direction as the forces that are at work in the American political spectrum."~Zaid Shakir, former Muslim chaplain at Yale.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/charen121401.asp




It might be a good idea to remember  these quotes next time you hear the lying media push the "Islam, religion of peace." mantra on you.


Remember this next time they give airplay to Cindy Sheehan braying about our unjust invasion of Iraq.

There are now over 1200 Mosques in the United States.  In how many do they preach this hate weekly in their sermons?



Had the British turned away from "Peace in our time" and faced up to Hitler in 1934, or 35 or 36, could WWII have been averted?


Could Europe's Jews in 1940 even conceive of what awaited them?



When we can find some time between our sports and our hobbies (even shooting), can we?


Just wondering.




matis

[Vodka7]

You don't know a single muslim, do you?  Have you ever been to a mosque?  Have you ever spent any time in a muslim country?

I have.  I know all kinds of american muslims--from the kind who drink liquor and have premarital sex to the kind who wear the full kit and won't let their daughters date even after they've graduated from college.  And I can tell you for a fact the most radical idea any of them support is that Israel should be pushed out of the Middle East by any means necessary.  (Yes, including, for some, support of suicide bombers in Israel.)

All of them are concerned with the same thing in America our grandparents were--getting jobs, owning a home, and sending their kids to college so the next generation will be better off.

[K Frame]

Yep, quotes from a couple dozen hard-core believers define everyone who is a Muslim...

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

You don't know a single muslim, do you?  Have you ever been to a mosque?  Have you ever spent any time in a muslim country?

I have.  I know all kinds of american muslims--from the kind who drink liquor and have premarital sex to the kind who wear the full kit and won't let their daughters date even after they've graduated from college.  And I can tell you for a fact the most radical idea any of them support is that Israel should be pushed out of the Middle East by any means necessary.  (Yes, including, for some, support of suicide bombers in Israel.)

All of them are concerned with the same thing in America our grandparents were--getting jobs, owning a home, and sending their kids to college so the next generation will be better off.

Bravo Sierra.
If they are sincerely, actively practicing their Muslim (Ishmael) faith, they want you dead.


Can I be the first to say what so many have thought?
Kill 'em all.  Let Allah sort 'em out.

[Vodka7]

If I were actively practicing my Catholic faith I'd be worried about burning in hell for entering a mosque.  What's your point?  I'm talking about the people that I've met, known, and lived with, not your interpretation of their religion.

[Ron]

While I don't believe we can or should paint the whole with a broad brush, we shouldn't emulate the europeans in ignoring the consequences of large unassimulated groups of immigrants.

[matis]

You don't know a single muslim, do you?  Have you ever been to a mosque?  Have you ever spent any time in a muslim country?

As a matter of fact, Vodka7 I have been in a Mosque.

And yes I know muslims.  And I know Arab Christians.  An Arab doctor delivered my daughter and an Arab was her baby doctor until she outgrew that stage.  Both excellent doctors and good men.


But the times are what they are.  Their sympathies are with the Palestinians; mine lie with the Israelis.  The cordiality has gone out of our relations.  We no longer discuss politics.  These people are not the problem.  But the problem comes from their religious group.





Why are you angry with me, when I am simply quoting what western muslim leaders have themselves said?


Except for three of four muslims that I know of, where are the muslims who speak out FORCEFULLY to fight for their good name?

What I hear is mealy-mouthed lies that barely veil their true sympathies.

Ask me and I'll give you urls to Palestinian muslims who tell the truth about their society and culture and who have gone over to the Israeli side for MORAL reasons.

They describe the constant hate preached in their society.


All over the western world, and right here in the United States, mosques are being co-opted by Saudi Immams.  They approach a group with a modest building and build them a million dollar mosque.  Of course that comes with a Saudi Immam who preaches Wahhabism.  The young get inspired, displace the older, more moderate leaders -- and we're off and running.


Whether a majority of muslims are radical is not the point.  The point is that it is from among their ranks that our destroyers come.  



Read up on Islam.  Try THE SWORD OF THE PROPHET.  And there are other such books.  What you'll learn is that Islam, does NOT recognize Jewish or Christian scriptures, that Islam does indeed command the killing of infidels, even prescribing the cutting off of hands and feet and leaving the victims to die in the desert heat.  Cutting the heads off living, screaming victims is prescribed in their religious teachings.  And Islam REQUIRES jihad, there is no respite for muslims.


Read the quotes again, Vodka7, but this time put down the vodka.  They are TELLING you what they intend to do.  And it doesn't take much awareness to see that they ARE doing it.  All over the world.

De Nile is not just a river in Egypt.


Whatever its past sins Christianity has undergone a reformation; Islam HAS NOT.



If you cannot see that Islam is once again on the march, well -- I cannot restore sight to the willfully blind.


Perhaps your children will enjoy praying to Allah.




matis

[Guest]

I guess I should also mention that the country my family came from was controlled by Muslims for 400 years, and they were allowed to keep their religion (Catholicism) and in fact, Muslims were, by their own laws, forbidden to interfere with them.

[Strings]

when people start screaming about Islam and how hate-filled it is, they fail to realize something: they're refering to modern Arabic Islam. There are a great many Moslems that follow the "kinder, gentler" version of the faith, and don't care one bit about Israel. The one's quoted are all of Arabic decent (even the Christian Arabs that Matis mentions)...

[The Rabbi]

"Muslims" is as broad a term as "Christians."  You wouldnt say everyone who professes chrisitianity is to be associated with white supremacy, would you?  Nor is every Orthodox Jew (much less every Jew) to be associated with Meir Kahane y'sh.
The real issue with Muslims is the Wahhabi brand, the official religion of Saudi Arabia.  It is they who have radicalized Islam and preached jihad, killing Chrisitans and Jews etc.  Through their tremendous wealth they can and have exported their house brand to Indonesia, Bosnia, and other places.

[stevelyn]

Yep, quotes from a couple dozen hard-core believers define everyone who is a Muslim...

Yep, just like Christian Identity and World Church of the Creator racist wingnuts define everyone who is Christian.

[Old Fud]

Errrr, Christians, please read our own history.

It wasn't all THAT long ago when WE were the ones who demanded not only total compliance, but total compliance to our particular sect.  
The record of the middle ages consists of Christians making war on other Christians, or of Christians making war upon unbelievers so rule of the church would prevail in every corner of the earth.

It passed for us.
Who among us really wants to bring it back?

Fud.

[Ron]

Errrr, Christians, please read our own history.

Cultural relativism isn't going to protect you from suicide bombers and planes crashing into your building.

I don't care where the sect or group comes from that commits these atrocities, they need to be hunted down and killed.

Nations that support or harbor these thugs need to be held accountable.

It is unfortunate that Islam on the whole is "sullied" by the extremists. It is Islams duty to police its own, and they are not doing a good job of it as far as I can tell.

[onions!]

I believe that the comparison of Christianity(middle ages) to radical Islam(modern) isn't valid for one main reason.That reason is time.When the Crusades were fought some of the battles took months,even years.The distances traveled were(by modern comparison)short.The death tolls were also comparitively minimal.I've not the figures in front of me but if an army of 50,000 meets another of like size & technology in battle the resulting casualties are likely similar to both sides.Yes?

The reason I mention time is that now when a group of homicidal maniacs want to kill their "enemy" they send out one"soldier" & that one can kill many,many people.20th Century technology means that a group of just a few has the potential to not only kill millions but to also make the very ground untenable for centuries.It's the fear of radical Islamists getting their hands on either nuclear or bio-weapons that is the core fear for many non-Islamists in the West.

The bold statement that all followers of Islam hate anyone who doesn't is...weak/lame/stupid-whatever.I'm both bald & white.That doesn't make me a Nazi any more than(if the self portraits found on THR are true anyways:)it does many of the members here.

The only"solution"to this problem that I can think of recalls the names of Sherman & Grant.On a global scale.That "solution"isn't even considerable.We'll just have to find another way.

BTW,I haven't knowingly met a follower of Islam,an Orthodox Jew,or a good Christian.I have met quite a few folks who pick & choose what parts of their respective religons & follow what's convienient though.

Wars over religon just amaze me.Maybe I'm just too laid back.

[Standing Wolf]

On the whole, followers of the polytheistic religions tend to be much, much more tolerant than followers of the monotheistic religions.

I believe communism, socialism, Nazism, and assorted other forms of leftist extremism fall under the rubric of monotheistic religions.

Their followers all seem to believe in one explanation, one greatest thing, one path, and woe unto those who believe otherwise.

[The Rabbi]

On the whole, followers of the polytheistic religions tend to be much, much more tolerant than followers of the monotheistic religions.

I believe communism, socialism, Nazism, and assorted other forms of leftist extremism fall under the rubric of monotheistic religions.

Their followers all seem to believe in one explanation, one greatest thing, one path, and woe unto those who believe otherwise.

I recall the Aztecs and Incas were remarkably tolerant people.....

[Strings]

>I recall the Aztecs and Incas were remarkably tolerant people.....<

I seem to recall the Jews as remarkably tolerant of the Caananites, too. your point being?

 EVERY religious groups has it's idiots, it's bad examples, and it's barbaric times. I've spent most of my life arguing religion with people, and I've found that you can generally turn anything said about one group against ANY group...

[Sindawe]

Wars over religon just amaze me.Maybe I'm just too laid back.

If there IS intelligent life in the universe, I suspects thats why no formal contact has been made with Earth.  We still bicker over who has the best invisible friend in the sky.

[Strings]

There was a black comedian (don't remember who) that mae the same point...

 You've got Og and Zog, flyin' around in their UFO, buzzing Earth. Og suggests they stop and talk to people, really mess with 'em. Zog looks at Og and says "You crazy?!?! They're fighting over black and white: we're purple! They'll ALL turn on us!"

[The Rabbi]

>I recall the Aztecs and Incas were remarkably tolerant people.....<

I seem to recall the Jews as remarkably tolerant of the Caananites, too. your point being?

 EVERY religious groups has it's idiots, it's bad examples, and it's barbaric times. I've spent most of my life arguing religion with people, and I've found that you can generally turn anything said about one group against ANY group...

The Canaanites themselves were no prize.
I agree with your statement, which disproves the original contention.

Wars over religon just amaze me.Maybe I'm just too laid back.

When your kid misbehaves I really don't care or get  bent out of shape, especially if it doesnt directly affect me.  When my kid misbehaves I get very worked up.  I guess that means I love your kid more than I love mine.

[onions!]

The more I think about it the more I think that the KKK might be a better comparison to the extremist Muslims.

It seems to me that both groups have(had)their silent supporters,their vocal supporters,their "soldiers"(& I don't intend that as an insult to those that have served-I'm just thinking w/my fingers here),their detractors& they are both a sub-set of their societal whole.

It'd be nice if the current crop of radicals were to follow the Klans' lead & de-evolve into a group of (mostly)harmless historical anecdotes.The sooner the better.

[The Rabbi]

The IRA might be a better comparison.  And while things have gotten considerably better there is room for improvement.  And it only took, what 100 years or so?

[Dannyboy]

How is the IRA a better comparison to the Islamofacists?

[Modifiedbrowning]

Posted by Vodka7,
" And I can tell you for a fact the most radical idea any of them support is that Israel should be pushed out of the Middle East by any means necessary".
Sounds like a wonderful group of friends you have there.

[Vodka7]

I wanted to be honest in my post.  I know people who support what suicide bombers in Israel are doing.  When your opponent has a standing army and receives billions of dollars in military support from the rest of the world, sometimes you have to use alternate tactics to achieve a goal.

I agree with the comparison to the IRA as far as the Palestine/Israel issue.  You've got a native population displaced by much more powerful outsiders.  The only difference is the Irish figured out how to blow up innocent people without being in the room at the time.