Urea is in short supply

[MillCreek]

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/this-chemical-is-in-short-supply-and-the-whole-world-feels-it/

More of the global interconnected supply chain issues. We have heard both Bogie and Boomhauer talk about this from the diesel perspective, and I did not know of it as a fertilizer component.

[Fly320s]

I can make my own, thanks.

[zxcvbob]

I can make my own, thanks.

I wonder if that would trick the DEF sensor in modern diesels?  It might not be good for the catalytic converter (they probably call it something else)

[WLJ]

"This chemical is in short supply"
Dems: More regulations and taxes inbound

[MillCreek]

I can make my own, thanks.

The urine of nuns was key in developing a fertility drug: https://qz.com/710516/the-strange-story-of-a-fertility-drug-made-with-the-popes-blessing-and-gallons-of-nun-urine/

[Jim147]

Well if it has anything to do with fuel or transportation you know this admin will be right on it.

[Hawkmoon]

Well if it has anything to do with fuel or transportation you know this admin will be right wrong on it.

FIFY

[PEfarmer]

Indeed. Nitrogen fertilizers are up around triple from last year. Farmers get boned again.

[MechAg94]

That must be why a new fertilizer plant was built next to BASF in Freeport, TX.  NeuAG I think. 

[HankB]

I understand some of the usual suspects are upset since some clever backyard mechanics have found ways to do without DEF in their trucks.

[HeroHog]

It's used in the making of particle/OSB board as well.

[Jim147]

It's used in the making of particle/OSB board as well.

Well less of that crap would be a plus.

[French G.]

Mixes nice with nitric acid too. 

[Bogie]

Right now, from what I understand, DOT is allowing temporary bypass of the systems.... But that'll change. Let's see how many will manage long-lasting workarounds, and let's see how they will spoof inspectors.

[Boomhauer]

Right now, from what I understand, DOT is allowing temporary bypass of the systems.... But that'll change. Let's see how many will manage long-lasting workarounds, and let's see how they will spoof inspectors.

Not quite… They are allowing bypass of the quality/level sensors, drivers/operators will have to keep the tanks filled because the system still has to work overall

[Boomhauer]

I wonder if that would trick the DEF sensor in modern diesels?  It might not be good for the catalytic converter (they probably call it something else)

DEF quality sensor has to see 32ish percent urea it uses an optical sensor. When I check the concentration on a machine for diagnostic purposes I use a refractometer to check concentration and test strips to check for oil contamination,

If the DPF/SCR system isn’t working within parameters whatever that engine powers will quickly be derated severely, there will likely be an alarm screaming in the operator’s ear which makes diagnostic REAL *expletive deleted*ing fun, and nothing in these systems are cheap to replace.

[Fly320s]

Boomhauer, you know your wheat from your chaff.  Is there a way to fool the sensors?  Can the average driver do that?

[Boomhauer]

Boomhauer, you know your wheat from your chaff.  Is there a way to fool the sensors?  Can the average driver do that?

Average driver? No. Average mechanic? Also no.

Most of these sensors seem to share the same parts with some minor differences. The ones I deal with run off a protocol called CAN networking which is a digital signal. It’s not like the old days of sensors and switches where you could jump wires or use a potentiometer to send a resistance value back to the ECM or gauge and fool it easily.

Some manufacturers to bypass temporarily are sending out ECM files that temporarily disable the ECM from needing the input of the sensor but it’s on a case by case basis, has to be evaluated and approved by the manufacturer and so on for hoops to Jump through.

Also importantly, it’s not legal for me, without jumping through the hoops, to disable or spoof said sensor and return it to the customer as that is tampering with emissions systems.

There are some deletes out there as well but the fed gov can *expletive deleted*ck your with the long dick of the EPA especially on a commercial vehicle.

[MechAg94]

Average driver? No. Average mechanic? Also no.

Most of these sensors seem to share the same parts with some minor differences. The ones I deal with run off a protocol called CAN networking which is a digital signal. It’s not like the old days of sensors and switches where you could jump wires or use a potentiometer to send a resistance value back to the ECM or gauge and fool it easily.

Some manufacturers to bypass temporarily are sending out ECM files that temporarily disable the ECM from needing the input of the sensor but it’s on a case by case basis, has to be evaluated and approved by the manufacturer and so on for hoops to Jump through.

Also importantly, it’s not legal for me, without jumping through the hoops, to disable or spoof said sensor and return it to the customer as that is tampering with emissions systems.

There are some deletes out there as well but the fed gov can *expletive deleted*ck your with the long dick of the EPA especially on a commercial vehicle.

Do you know what kind of digital signal?  I assume it is an always "On" type signal.

At my plant, digital signals are typically just a 24VDC on/off circuit.  Most safety stuff is always on so a failure trips the interlock.

[Boomhauer]

Do you know what kind of digital signal?  I assume it is an always "On" type signal.

At my plant, digital signals are typically just a 24VDC on/off circuit.  Most safety stuff is always on so a failure trips the interlock.

It modulates the voltage in a narrow range to send information as best as I can explain it.  It moves too quick to see with a meter. That’s why it’s much harder to fool because you have to design your substitute device to be able to “talk” to the ECM.

Rather than design a tool to test with I fabricated a jumper cable enabling crossing the suspect unit to a known good machine and a known good unit to the suspect machine. Five minutes with the jumper cable and I can confirm it’s a bad sending unit by seeing that the fault follows the bad unit

[Northwoods]

I wonder if that would trick the DEF sensor in modern diesels?  It might not be good for the catalytic converter (they probably call it something else)

No, it won’t trick the sensors.  And they call it an SCR or Selective Catalytic Reduction.

[Bogie]

I know a state police inspector...
 
I don't think they're worried, as long as the trucks are rolling, and have brakes that work, etc...

[Northwoods]

I know a state police inspector...
 
I don't think they're worried, as long as the trucks are rolling, and have brakes that work, etc...

Truck won’t keep running without the urea.  If they run out they’ll go into limp home mode and then won’t restart until they have urea available again.

[Bogie]

Unless they do a workaround.
 
That's the rub.

If the trucks are still running, I don't think it will be an issue except for the coasts.

[Nick1911]

Unpopular opinion time!  As I've gotten older, I've gotten a little softer on the hard-line libertarian "Keep your damn regs off my car, I'll throw tires in bonfires if I want, THE ATMOSPHERE IS MY TRASH CAN!"

Okay, I never really believed the last bit.  But I did rather disagree with sweeping environmental regulations that impose massive costs on us, the end consumers.  Let the consumers make their choices, and keep the government out of it.

But when I'm driving down the road and I'm behind:
- A beater 90's Honda the driver of which spent thousands on aftermarket bolt on crap, but couldn't be bothered to replace the valve seals that are dumping oil into the cylinders
- Someone that's irresponsible enough to think illegally modifying their diesel truck and "rolling coal" has any redeeming value.
- Someone who you can tell, by smell, doesn't have a catalytic converter
- Old diesel triaxles that billow clouds of incomplete combustion when they accelerate

...or countless other examples, I think that maybe I don't really want this crap in the air I'm breathing?

Free-market capitalism doesn't do a good job of dealing with negative externalities.