Author Topic: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report  (Read 10458 times)

GeoJAP

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I'm sorry the other thread about this was locked.  Please don't put any illegal or treasonous speech into this thread, I don't want it to be locked.  Some people questioned the report's authenticity which I posted.  Well, here you go.  The AP seems to think it's real.  And Lt. Hotz, who I recommended that you call to verify its authenticity, is quoted all over this article. 

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1086524.html

Quote
Missouri report on militias, terrorists draws criticism
The Associated Press
More News

COLUMBIA, Mo. | A new document meant to help Missouri law enforcement agencies identify militia members or domestic terrorists has drawn criticism for some of the warning signs mentioned.

The Feb. 20 report called "The Modern Militia Movement" mentions such red flags as political bumper stickers for third-party candidates, such as U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, who ran for president last year; talk of conspiracy theories, such as the plan for a superhighway linking Canada to Mexico; and possession of subversive literature.

"It seems like they want to stifle political thought," said Roger Webb, president of the University of Missouri campus Libertarians. "There are a lot of third parties out there, and none of them express any violence. In fact, if you join the Libertarian Party, one of the things you sign in your membership application is that you don't support violence as a means to any ends."

But state law enforcement officials said the report is being misinterpreted.

Lt. John Hotz of the Missouri State Highway Patrol said the report comes from publicly available, trend data on militias. It was compiled by the Missouri Information Analysis Center, a "fusion center" in Jefferson City that combines resources from the federal Department of Homeland Security and other agencies. The center, which opened in 2005, was set up to collect local intelligence to better combat terrorism and other criminal activity, he said.

Gewehr98

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 01:50:56 PM »
The ubiquitous Lt. Holz isn't doing much to allay public fears of his agency's use of the data, is he?

IOW, he defends the data as being publicly available, but doesn't explain why it's so evil to him and his fellow troopers, or that they made a grossly over-simplified boogeyman out of perfectly legal symbology.

(The Gadsden Flag?  C'mon...)
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 03:57:47 PM »
Give them money, and they will squander it. That takes a high school education to figure out?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 04:46:33 PM »
have you guys read the document?  what part is so offensive/wrong?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Werewolf

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 05:04:10 PM »
have you guys read the document?  what part is so offensive/wrong?

The original can be seen in another thread started by GeoJap.

Quite interesting - I thought it to be a fake but was wrong it seems.

From reading it many of us here on APS would probably be profiled as potential terrorists by MO law enforcement.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 05:15:47 PM »
Werewolf hit the nail on the head.

I wouldn't consider folks owning/displaying a Gadsden flag as some sort of subversive/terrorist organization.

I'm thinking that in lieu of teabags being sent to D.C., perhaps we can send Gadsden flags to the Missouri State Highway Patrol?  =D
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 05:40:30 PM »
my read of it gets that they say that members of certain groups might display certain signs and insignia  not that anyone who flies a flag is a member of a terrorist group.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Jamisjockey

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 05:45:03 PM »


From reading it many of us here on APS would probably be profiled as potential terrorists by MO law enforcement.

Bingo!

<insert patriot act here>


Who wants to be my cellmate at Gitmo?!?

my read of it gets that they say that members of certain groups might display certain signs and insignia  not that anyone who flies a flag is a member of a terrorist group.

My read is that they are profiling certain groups.  Except, unlike profiling common criminals and gang members, the have attached the "Terrorist" word to the "Suspect" word.
"Suspect" gets you questioned.
"Suspected Terrorist" gets you held indefintely. 
JD

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 05:53:35 PM »
Well, I live in Missouri, so you can blame it on me.
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GeoJAP

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 06:00:13 PM »
Here is the original thread with all the scanned pages of the report.

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=18559.0

Standing Wolf

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 10:06:51 PM »
Quote
Well, I live in Missouri, so you can blame it on me.

Nah. It's Bush's fault.
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Lee

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 10:18:13 PM »
Well... considering that the police can pull you over for pretty much anything, anyway...not a huge deal to me.  But the Internet is rocking with stories about this.  I understand that Libertarian stickers gets you the same attention from the MSP.   

jackdanson

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2009, 02:45:53 AM »
I live in missouri and I have a criminal law degree.  While getting my degree I took many classes with current/former missouri highway patrol officers.  I had more than one go on rants about "redneck right-wing" militia groups.  They seemed to be quite certain that those groups posed more of a threat than Islamic terrorists.  I think they really drill this into them for some reason.  This document coming out is less than thrilling to me.  Nowhere in the report do they state anything that any specific group in missouri has done to require such attention.

That being said, every one of the MSHP guys that I have interacted with (in the classroom and on the side of the highway) has been very professional, intelligent, and responsible with their power.. much moreso than the local cops or county deputies I've had interactions with.

buzz_knox

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2009, 09:22:07 AM »
I wonder how long it will be before stickers referencing the NRA, Glock, Sig, S&W, etc. fall within these same categories.

Nothing like using legitimate political speech to target individuals.

Ben

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2009, 11:00:16 AM »
Quote
From reading it many of us here on APS would probably be profiled as potential terrorists by MO law enforcement.

It's a mindset that goes beyond law enforcement. I was watching "The Unit" last Sunday, and the episode entailed the characters responding to a chlorine gas attack in their neighborhood. The main characters were doing stuff like taping up doors, closing air conditioning vents, and turning on heaters. When one of the "run of the mill" neighbor characters asked why they were doing that, they explained the properties of chlorine. The neighbor responded, "How do you know this? Are you guys some kind of survivalist nuts?" Of course to balance things out, the bad guys who started the chlorine attack were right wing extremist neo-nazis.

I realized that the neighbor character actually portrayed a mindset I've seen myself. There's been more than one occasion where some kind of practical "what would you do" question in conversations with friends and coworkers has come up, and when I've given a practical answer, someone has always been bound to say, "Oh yeah, NRA gun nut survivalist Ben". Nevermind that it's information anyone would learn in Elementary school, the Boy Scouts, the military, or even Federal government "ready.gov" type preparedness websites. Somehow the knowledge of practical skills or basic science, when combined with their application in an emergency, makes one a suspect fringe element unless they're wearing a uniform or somehow representing the government. Actually to be specific, it makes one a wacko in discussion of emergency scenarios. If it's an actual emergency, then the unprepared people are generally more than happy to "rally round the wacko".
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Balog

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2009, 11:21:00 AM »
I despise the pathetic cowards who sneer at those who prepare then beg for help.  :mad:
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 11:31:11 AM »
My read is that they are profiling certain groups.  Except, unlike profiling common criminals and gang members, the have attached the "Terrorist" word to the "Suspect" word.
"Suspect" gets you questioned.
"Suspected Terrorist" gets you held indefintely. 

Bingo. "Terrorism" is the new law enforcement buzz word, the key to the exchequer. Anything they want to do that might otherwise be indefensible, they now stick "Terroristic" or "Terrorist" in front of it and, voila! -- instant acceptance by the huddled masses. Do y'all read the news much? Ever notice how in the last couple of years nobody ever seems to get charged with "threatening" any more? Nope, if a 7th grader tells the playground bully to back off or he'll get his lights punched out, the kid now gets cuffed and stuffed, and chrged with "terroristic" threatening.

I always felt that terrorism and things related more or less implied a wide-spread threat to society at large, or at least to significant subsets of society. The way some state's laws have been crafted post-9/11, though, in some jurisdictions it is legally possible to be charged with "terroristic" threatening if the incident only involves you and one other person.

And that's just not right.
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Balog

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 11:45:13 AM »
I've been predicting the misuse of all the "anti-terrorist" stuff Bush passed since the Patriot Act first came to town. Other than the fact I thought it would be Hillary at the reins, those are coming true.
Quote from: French G.
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Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 12:30:06 PM »
It's a mindset that goes beyond law enforcement. I was watching "The Unit" last Sunday, and the episode entailed the characters responding to a chlorine gas attack in their neighborhood. The main characters were doing stuff like taping up doors, closing air conditioning vents, and turning on heaters. When one of the "run of the mill" neighbor characters asked why they were doing that, they explained the properties of chlorine. The neighbor responded, "How do you know this? Are you guys some kind of survivalist nuts?" Of course to balance things out, the bad guys who started the chlorine attack were right wing extremist neo-nazis.

One  of my favorite shows.  In defense of the show, they happily show islamic terrorists, alot.
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Sawdust

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 12:41:28 PM »
<snip> Somehow the knowledge of practical skills or basic science, when combined with their application in an emergency, makes one a suspect fringe element unless they're wearing a uniform or somehow representing the government. Actually to be specific, it makes one a wacko in discussion of emergency scenarios. If it's an actual emergency, then the unprepared people are generally more than happy to "rally round the wacko".

Reminds me of last weekend at my youngest son's Little League game. I was standing on the sideline watching the game, and the father of one of the other players was standing next to me. After a couple of innings, my oldest son came up to me and told me he had been stung by a bee on his hand.

Sure enough, there was the stinger and poison sac. Of course, one does not remove a bee stinger be grabbing the end with fingers, as this will squeeze the poison sac thus dispensing the poison into the victim.

So, I whip-out my Benchmade Griptillion and scrape the stinger out. Out of the corner of my eye, I see the eye's of the other father go to saucer-size upon seeing the knife. Needless to say, he didn't come any where near me the rest of the game and made it a point to keep his distance if I came near him.

He probably would have filled his pants if he knew of the pistol in my pocket.

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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2009, 12:46:56 PM »
It saddens me that grown men can be so afraid of a pocket knife.  Sometimes I wonder how people like that manage to make it through the day.  Probably starbucks and pills.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2009, 01:38:19 PM »
I understand that Libertarian stickers gets you the same attention from the MSP.    

That's news to me.  ???  Not sayin' it ain't true, but I've just never seen or heard of that attitude anywhere in the state.  Then again, I don't know any Libertarians (locally) and I don't rock bumper stickers anymore.

And here my state got such bad ratings from the Brady Campaign, and such a good rating from that "Which states are free-est" list a little while ago.   =)
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Balog

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2009, 02:52:01 PM »
I'm with dasmi. What kind of pathetic excuse for a man is terrified of a freaking pocket knife, and how can they make it through life? I just don't get it....
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2009, 04:24:22 PM »
I despise the pathetic cowards who sneer at those who prepare then beg for help.  :mad:

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Gewehr98

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Re: Associated Press verifies Missouri Militia/Terrorist Group report
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2009, 04:25:13 PM »
Oh, my.  :O
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