Author Topic: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car  (Read 9753 times)

Stand_watie

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You're a homicide det./traffic crash investigator team assigned to investigate this death: How would you go about doing the background necessary for your interview with Stewart? Interviews with other drivers regarding dirt track handling? I'd think you'd want to understand the issue before you interview the driver.

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/11334217/tony-stewart-not-race-hitting-killing-kevin-ward-jr

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Boomhauer

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2014, 01:24:40 PM »
Everybody's a *expletive deleted*ing expert on the internet when it comes to a high profile incident...

A) You don't get out of the car unless you have to after an accident (i.e., it's on fire).
B) You don't hang around on a racetrack once you are out of the car, you GTFO
C) You don't walk towards the racing traffic shaking your fists in order to display your anger. You settle a disagreement in the pits
D) Sprint cars are not normal cars by any means, and dirt track racing is a completely different world than being on the pavement, yet the people assigning blame to Stewart and calling for him to burn are probably people who have never even driven on a dirt road, let alone been anywhere near a race car of any type, much less been in it.

*expletive deleted*ing idiots. If Stewart even saw Ward on the track, I doubt he tried to hit or intimidate him as many claim. If Stewart saw Ward, I bet he did everything he could to avoid him.



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Fly320s

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2014, 01:40:08 PM »
In the video I saw, Ward was a bit difficult to see sue to the low light level. I bet Stewart never saw Ward.
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lupinus

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2014, 01:47:52 PM »
I don't lay any blame on Stewart for this ATM, based on what we know and having seen the video.

Dude played a stupid game and won a stupid prize. He got out of the car and about did everything he could to run into traffic and get clipped by an open wheel on a dirt track. Sucks for his family, sucks for him, sucks for Stewart who gets to live with it.

Based on the video I'm betting Stewart didn't see him until the last second, hit the gas (throttle is a BIG part of steering those things) to try and get around him, and just didn't have enough time to do so without hitting him. The swerve most people are demonizing is the result of him going under the wheels, not Stewart swerving at him to be a *expletive deleted*che bag as so many internet heros are trying to point out.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

wmenorr67

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2014, 01:48:04 PM »
My take on this from growing up around dirt tracks and actually driving, albeit slowly, a winged sprint car and other race cars on dirt and asphalt is this; the driver of the 13 was angry and let his emotions get the best of him, Stewart did not purposely hit him, no person in their right mind would do that, Stewart more than likely didn't even see this other driver because of his view blocked by the car in front of him.  Those that are saying Stewart's car slid into the other driver, I saw the car move after he hit the other driver.  There is no clutch on these cars, they are either in gear or not in gear and they are steered with the throttle as much as they are with the wheel and brakes.

If this wasn't such a high profile person involved the most we would have heard was that there was a tragic accident where a young driver lost his life.
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BobR

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 01:48:44 PM »
I spent a summer with a few friends driving a 55 Chevy on 1/4 mile dirt track every Saturday night when I was growing up. You seldom, if ever look to your right other than quick glances, all you are concerned about is getting set up for the corners, which come up PDQ. With this guy in a dark suit, approaching from the right in a dimly lighted area I can see him getting smacked by another car.  Like someone said before, if you have your differences on the track, the pits are the place to hash things out, not walking down the track showboating your anger to get your few minutes of fame on the youtubes. Well, he got famous, sort of, he also got dead.

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 01:49:33 PM »
double tap.  ???

Ben

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 01:59:49 PM »
I know absolutely nothing about car racing, but my first thought watching the video was, "Why is this idiot out of his car and running willy nilly around the track?" No disrespect to the dead intended, but the video indicates to me it was more the fault of the victim than the driver.

Apparently this Tony Stewart is a "bad boy" on the racing circuit? Some of the outrage about him regarding this incident is to me, analogous to the Donald Sterling incident - people didn't like him, so they went overboard on wanting him punished.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 02:05:59 PM »
Quote
Apparently this Tony Stewart is a "bad boy" on the racing circuit? Some of the outrage about him regarding this incident is to me, analogous to the Donald Sterling incident - people didn't like him, so they went overboard on wanting him punished.

He's not even really that much of a "bad boy", he's thrown his helmet at another car once (and was fined for it, IIRC).

Back in the day, racers used to beat the *expletive deleted*it out of each other (which you will still see sometimes in dirt track local racing)



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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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RocketMan

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 02:08:33 PM »
Some observations...
The track was under caution at the time Stewart hit Ward.  Looking at the video, almost every other other driver cleared Ward well to the low side of the track while traveling at caution speed.
Many of the fans at the race are of the opinion that Stewart tried to spray Ward with dirt, having heard him hit the gas as he passed Ward.
The cops are still investigating, asking the public for any video they may have.
Stewart is well known to be a hothead in NASCAR circles, quite famous for his temper.  That may work against him.
Pretty obvious the jury is still out on this one.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2014, 02:10:56 PM »
I only appears that the other cars missed him low.  Stewart was riding right behind all the other cars as the young man was coming down the track into "traffic".  The only car I saw swerve any to miss him was the car directly in front of Stewart.
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lupinus

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2014, 02:26:51 PM »
He was actively moving more into traffic.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Triphammer

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2014, 02:44:43 PM »
Just watched the video;
Suicide by sprint car, aggravated by frustrated anger

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2014, 03:48:12 PM »
Just watched the video;
Suicide by sprint car, aggravated by frustrated anger

I agree.  Stewart managed to drive him out of the ideal line causing him to spin out and bust a tire(can't continue), but that happens in races.

Stay in the car like a good boy, hell, stay on the freaking high side out of traffic and he'd have been fine.

French G.

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 06:49:58 PM »
First, the TL DR version. I'm in the stupid games, stupid prizes camp. I'm really trying to hold back in any grave dancing or such but I've yet to find a shred of sympathy for the deceased.

I'll try to break this down in points, could get long. I've been in the pits of a sprint car track since I was 5, 39 now. I was 16 for like 5 damn years to get in where I couldn't be sneaked in and was working on them in the pits. Higher tier sprints than these, 410 sprints in Central PA which is as good as it gets until the Outlaws come to town to get whipped. After taking a hiatus from that life I came back, drove 305 sprints for 4 years which are 200 or so HP less than the ESS sprints in question. In the future I will be back in a car, if I win powerball it will be a 410.  =D I've worked on about every aspect of running a dirt track, drive the water truck, grader, angriest flagman ever, etc. Apparently I will be part owner of a dirt track one crappy day in the future, if I have any money we'll run races, if not we'll run private races. So anyway, BTDT.

-Basic stuff, I have yet to turn my back on a  running sprint car. They are 13-1700 lbs depending on class and the tire is big, probably won't kill you. The wing will. There is no clutch. The rear axle is a solid tube, if you mash the throttle it moves, if you mash the brakes it moves. The steering wheel is kinda far down the list on what to steer with when you are at speed. It is harder to go in a straight line than it is to turn. It is hard as heck to steer at caution speeds because the front tires find different grip and wobble everywhere and the rear tires do the same which kind of snakes the rear end around a little. Visibility out if the right side is extremely limited. The modern cars are paneled up and the wing sideboard drops down very low. Further with modern seats you usually have a right side head rest and a HANS device limiting your head movement.

-Don't know if Stewart saw him, as mentioned right side visibility. Black firesuit, dim lighting. When you are on the track you usually have a blinding light shining directly in your eyes no matter where you go and the rest is kind of iffy. If Stewart did see him I have no problem believing that he wanted to drive close to him. Don't really care, the kid constantly re-vectored to get in front of the car. My guess, he wanted to stall Stewart which is what happens if you just lock the brakes down.

-Why don't I care? Aggression beget aggression. Any decent sprint car driver is not backing down from anything. Here's where I blame society, reality TV, professional wrestling, and lawyers. In my view on-track retaliation is not good, once a car is wrecking it is just providence that no one gets killed. But it happens all the time, just listen to any Kurt Busch interview when he gets wrecked. If anyone every dies from his retaliation, intent is covered. Stewart isn't so great about that either, wish he'd stick to punching people in the garage. Which is what should happen. If you're that bent out of shape and you're out there both wrecked then step #1 don't take your helmet off, #2 drag the other guy out of the car and beat him severely. The little BS temper tantrums of throwing your helmet or whatever, running onto the track are behaviors that were learned from NASCAR and they didn't happen in the age where you could punch someone and not get sued for millions. Yes I know, punch equals potentially lethal force, but a lot less lethal than going through the barn roof outside of Williams Grove turn 1. And there is zero chance it accidentally involves another driver who ended up in the wrong place. Furthermore, the BS behavior was learned and enforced in go-karts and micro sprints. The kid drove since he was 4. I watch race car parents and they make soccer parents look like Mother Teresa. My opinion is you shouldn't be in a race car until you are old enough to fight your own fights. That'd be 18. For every John Bickford that brings forth a Jeff Gordon there are 1000 spoiled kids who think they should whine, stomp around, initiate un-neccessary contact on track and generally act like they are NASCAR stars.

-Idiots hear the video and say Stewart's car revved before impact. No, there was a lot of track and cars  closer to the zoomed camera that are out of frame. The microphone doesn't zoom.

-Idiots say Stewart turned right. Yep, sure did after one or both right side tires were slowed by the deceased. Solid rear axle, if there is a force input it will turn the car. If you saw the guy and wanted to suddenly turn lower a little burp of the throttle would probably be needed to free the rear tires. When you are idling you have a fair bit of right pressure in the wheel to keep the car going straight, even in the turns. The car wants to turn left due to 10-14 inches of circumferential difference(stagger) in the rears. But to do it in a hurry, you still burp the throttle.

-On the incident, can't even really see that they touched. Wasn't really even a slide job, just moved him up some. At that point you are in loose dirt and looking at a sprint car's offensive weapon which is the right rear tire. That's your clue to give up, the guy inside never loses.

Anyway, sprint car racing is probably out of step with the modern lawyered up world. The era that produced AJ Foyt and Mario Andretti produced a lot of other great sprint car drivers. We don't know their names because they are dead. That era of risk would not tolerate behavior we see today, be it on track contact or hissy fits. Now cars are so safe that people forget that it is still the Roman arena and every time you push off it could be to a lethal incident.

On aggression, where is the line? We could roll over and never respond to any aggression from feral idiots. Then they would rule the world. Could I be in Stewart's situation? Sure, just driving down to the city this weekend I mistreated a car with New York plates who was acting extremely poorly to everyone. I'm fully prepared to place my car in contact with his and my blood pressure isn't even up. But where does that lead? Death is all around us constantly and where will we be if we all just take it lying down?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 07:17:12 PM by French G. »
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Boomhauer

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2014, 07:02:31 PM »
Can I copy and paste that on the facebooks? I'm dealing with a special kind of special in my post on the issue.



Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2014, 07:04:08 PM »
the only reason I paid attention to this thread was I was waiting for that rant.
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French G.

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2014, 07:10:24 PM »
Picture post.

First, a right side shot of a car from about where you'd be as a guy chasing a running car. See the driver's seat? Now make it dark and the car moving.



Slide job done wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jaszQ8WNOM

Done right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW6ifhCYcnM

Never been to Canandaigua, but here is some 305 in car to illustrate how awesome the lights are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqMbVgLnxFA


I guess my biggest concern is that all the talking heads will go on and on about how dangerous sprints are and the only reason they care is that a celebrity was involved. After Stewart broke his leg last year in Iowa everyone talked about how dangerous they were. When minor celebrity Leffler killed himself last year in a 410 several mealy mouthed drivers in Nascar Sprint Cup talked about how small tracks were too dangerous and such. Well, go ahead and kill racing. We can't afford Safer barriers and helicopters on the pad. If it was safe we wouldn't do it. So if you ant to whine, go away.
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French G.

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 07:12:31 PM »
Can I copy and paste that on the facebooks? I'm dealing with a special kind of special in my post on the issue.





Don't reference my name and remove my identifying bios. I share a name with someone very involved in the national sprint car scene and I don't represent him. Doubt anyone will crawl to this corner of the web to talk about this when there are 900 copies of the video out there to troll comments on.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 07:19:51 PM »
I'll sanitize it and leave out the personal details

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

French G.

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2014, 08:11:52 PM »
Here's some sprint car racing done right because if I'm on the youtubes looking at this I ought to watch something good. Our series emphasizes correct driving, car control, and the sportsmanship befitting a recreational racing series where nobody is going to Nascar. I is the flagman, the after the fact voiceover is the other guy with my name.  I've raced this track, but never since he has owned it.  ;/ 2012 we didn't race due to voiceover guy trying to die on us, 2013 was decent, short program with rain. 2014 we finally make it truly National, a midwest sanctioning body bought part of the rights and the big show is in Eagle, Nebraska later this month. Hopefully I'll be out there, a couple of Virginia cars are going and we should get a strong showing from several other regions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xMDVlzWKLU
AKA Navy Joe   

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Boomhauer

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2014, 08:53:30 PM »
We're having a good ol' fight (well it's not much of a fight, more like an ass beating) over on my FB page over this...

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

MillCreek

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2014, 09:01:33 PM »
Boy, this is sure interesting, and all of this goes to my quota of learning something every day.  I knew very little about this sort of racing prior to this.
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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2014, 09:25:14 PM »
Don't they have crosswalks at the race track  ???

 =D
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wmenorr67

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Re: Regarding death investigation of driver struck by Tony Stewart car
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2014, 09:42:52 PM »
Don't they have crosswalks at the race track  ???

 =D

You win, lock the thread.  :rofl:
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