Author Topic: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US  (Read 8337 times)

Desertdog

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Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« on: January 12, 2009, 01:30:42 AM »
Another 2,000,000 acres put out of reach of the common man, not to mention the fact that the Forest Service cannot fight forest fires in the area, except by water drops.

Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
 Matthew Daly, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON – In a rare Sunday session, the Senate advanced legislation that would set aside more than 2 million acres in nine states as wilderness. Majority Democrats assembled more than enough votes to overcome GOP stalling tactics in an early showdown for the new Congress.

Republicans complained that Democrats did not allow amendments on the massive bill, which calls for the largest expansion of wilderness protection in 25 years. But Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and other Democrats said the bill — a holdover from last year — was carefully written and included measures sponsored by both Republicans and Democrats.

By a 66-12 vote, with only 59 needed to limit debate, lawmakers agreed to clear away procedural hurdles despite partisan wrangling that had threatened pledges by leaders to work cooperatively as the new Obama administration takes office. Senate approval is expected later this week. Supporters hope the House will follow suit.

"Today is a great day for America's public lands," said the bill's sponsor, Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M. "This big, bipartisan package of bills represents years of work by senators from many states, and both parties, in cooperation with local communities, to enhance places that make America so special."

The measure — actually a collection of about 160 bills — would confer the government's highest level of protection on land ranging from California's Sierra Nevada mountain range to Oregon's Mount Hood, Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado and parts of the Jefferson National Forest in Virginia. Land in Idaho's Owyhee canyons, Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore in Michigan and Zion National Park in Utah also would be designated as wilderness.

Besides new wilderness designations, the bill would designate the childhood home of former President Bill Clinton in Hope, Ark., as a national historic site and expand protections for dozens of national parks, rivers and water resources.

Reid said about half the bills in the lands package were sponsored by Republicans. Most had been considered for more than a year.

"I am happy that after months of delay we will finally be moving forward," Reid said.

The bill's chief opponent, Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., denounced what he called Democratic bullying tactics.

"I am disappointed the Senate majority leader has refused to allow senators the opportunity to improve, amend or eliminate any of the questionable provisions in his omnibus lands bill," Coburn told fellow senators.

"When the American people asked Congress to set a new tone, I don't believe refusing to listen to the concerns of others was what they had in mind," Coburn said. "The American people expect us hold open, civil and thorough debates on costly legislation, not ram through 1,300-page bills when few are watching."

Coburn and several other Republicans complained that bill was loaded with pet projects and prevented development of oil and gas on federal lands, which they said would deepen the nation's dependence on foreign oil.

Environmental groups said the bill set the right tone for the new Congress.

"By voting to protect mountains and pristine wildlands, Congress is starting out on the right foot," said Christy Goldfuss of Environment America, an advocacy group. "This Congress is serious about protecting the environment and the outstanding lands that Americans treasure."

___

On the Net:

Information on the bill, S. 22, can be found at http://thomas.loc.gov


Ryan in Maine

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 03:03:55 AM »
The text: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.22:

I breathe a sigh of relief every time they don't turn Maine's North Woods into a National Park.

Edit: Fixed link.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 03:46:56 PM by Ryan in Maine »

Jamisjockey

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 07:59:15 AM »
My, that didn't take long. 
But...but...they won't have time to work on gun control....
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 09:52:39 AM »
We don't want commoners making messes on our public land.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

makattak

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 09:59:04 AM »
My, that didn't take long. 
But...but...they won't have time to work on gun control....

They voted to limit debate.

They're going to try to push through as much this year as they can in hopes that the voting public will forget next year.
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charby

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 11:38:33 AM »
So why is this a bad thing? Protects land and makes land available for enjoyment by everyone. Wilderness areas still allow hunting and fishing.

Fire? Some of the reasons of the massive fires in the last 20 years is because of fire suppression since the Forest Service was created, most terrestrial ecosystems need fire to sustain/rejuvenate itself.
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geronimotwo

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 12:10:14 PM »
i don't know what this bill does, but i would like to see a section of land preserved where my kids and theirs can go to see what louis and clark might have seen. if even for them to say,"when do we get cell service again, dad?".
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Tallpine

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 02:01:55 PM »
i don't know what this bill does, but i would like to see a section of land preserved where my kids and theirs can go to see what louis and clark might have seen.

It's called the Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge  :rolleyes:


And I've seen what they did to "wilderness" down in Colorado.  Took some fairly remote country, publicized it and built huge paved parking lots with flush toliets at the trailheads (which used to be unknown to all but hardcore outdoors-folk).  Then of course they had to improve the trails and put up plenty of signs so the tenderfeet won't get lost or stub their sandaled feet on a rock.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 02:13:45 PM »
Quote
Another 2,000,000 acres put out of reach of the common man, not to mention the fact that the Forest Service cannot fight forest fires in the area, except by water drops.

Nothing like a little hyperbole to start a thread, eh?

I've hiked, hunted, and fished plenty of National Wilderness areas.

I'm pretty much a common man.

Do you know something we don't? 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 09:02:04 PM »
wheres the wnd/newsmax link?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Regolith

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 10:50:24 PM »
So why is this a bad thing? Protects land and makes land available for enjoyment by everyone. Wilderness areas still allow hunting and fishing.

Fire? Some of the reasons of the massive fires in the last 20 years is because of fire suppression since the Forest Service was created, most terrestrial ecosystems need fire to sustain/rejuvenate itself.

Wilderness areas are "roadless," and you can't enter them with a vehicle.  You have to either ride a horse or hike in.  This can be problematic if you aren't fit enough to walk in and/or can't get a hold of a horse (or can't ride one due to disability).

So, it does in essence shut off a great deal of land to a large number of people.


That being said, I don't have a problem with designating an area as wilderness if it is needed to rehabilitate the area, or if it is to protect something unique to that area.  I do have a problem with designating large strips wilderness 'just because.'  However, I don't have enough information on which areas where designated and why in order to make that determination in this case.
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charby

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 12:48:02 AM »
Wilderness areas are "roadless," and you can't enter them with a vehicle.  You have to either ride a horse or hike in.  This can be problematic if you aren't fit enough to walk in and/or can't get a hold of a horse (or can't ride one due to disability).

So, it does in essence shut off a great deal of land to a large number of people.



Life is cruel...

I'm a fat guy.

2006 I did some crazy Ozark Mtn stuff

2007 I did the BWCA (70 miles in 5 days)

2008 I did the Blackfoot Valley in Montana and did some back country in Yellowstone

2009 Bob Marshall? and Maine? (what is on tap)

people can do it if they want.

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Regolith

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2009, 01:26:51 AM »
Life is cruel...

I'm a fat guy.

2006 I did some crazy Ozark Mtn stuff

2007 I did the BWCA (70 miles in 5 days)

2008 I did the Blackfoot Valley in Montana and did some back country in Yellowstone

2009 Bob Marshall? and Maine? (what is on tap)

people can do it if they want.




Bit difficult if you're a wheel chair, though.


Like I said, wilderness areas serve a purpose, but they should be used sparingly, because it DOES cut off access. 
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

Scout26

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2009, 11:00:48 AM »

Bit difficult if you're a wheel chair, though.


Like I said, wilderness areas serve a purpose, but they should be used sparingly, because it DOES cut off access. 

If you have are disabled you can get a permit to use a four wheeler in USFS lands. 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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Tallpine

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 12:18:46 PM »
Honestly, I would be all for "Wilderness" areas if that's what they were.

There should be no trail maintenance and no signs.  Let the forest reclaim the trails.  And no parking lots, either.  It should be nearly impossible to even find what's left of the trail from the roadside.

And no search and rescue, ever. 
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Gewehr98

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 01:29:07 PM »
Quote
Another 2,000,000 acres put out of reach of the common real estate developer.

There.

Fixed it.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 01:45:41 PM »
bingo!
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Tallpine

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 03:59:50 PM »
Quote
Quote
Another 2,000,000 acres put out of reach of the common real estate developer.

There.

Fixed it.

Yeah, Bush has been selling off the national parks and forests right and left  ;/
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gunsmith

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2009, 01:46:06 AM »
The Jarbidge Shovel Brigade is why things like this can be a problem.
The gov closes down roads that have been used for generations by rural folk and enact all
kinds of rules.
gov't is the problem, not the solution in almost every case.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2009, 03:59:02 AM »
There.

Fixed it.

As we know, real estate developers (and, by extension, those who buy land from them) are unpersons.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2009, 02:18:27 PM »
Quote
As we know, real estate developers (and, by extension, those who buy land from them) are unpersons.

Correction.  You might know that, but I know real estate developers as folks who would gladly take wilderness and replace it with a concrete and steel jungle, and then later knock it down for an asphalt parking lot.  They call that "improvement".

I'm a conservationist and outdoorsman - I make no bones about it.  I'm no Teddy Roosevelt or Aldo Leopold, but it definitely warms my heart to see wilderness areas being set aside for future generations, and kept safe from the clutches of developers. 
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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charby

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2009, 02:28:33 PM »
I'm a conservationist and outdoorsman - I make no bones about it.  I'm no Teddy Roosevelt or Aldo Leopold, but it definitely warms my heart to see wilderness areas being set aside for future generations, and kept safe from the clutches of developers. 

You might be a fan of Gifford Pinochet.

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Tallpine

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2009, 04:23:52 PM »
Correction.  You might know that, but I know real estate developers as folks who would gladly take wilderness and replace it with a concrete and steel jungle, and then later knock it down for an asphalt parking lot.  They call that "improvement".

I'm a conservationist and outdoorsman - I make no bones about it.  I'm no Teddy Roosevelt or Aldo Leopold, but it definitely warms my heart to see wilderness areas being set aside for future generations, and kept safe from the clutches of developers. 

Again, when was the last time that you heard of national forest and national parks being developed and sold off into subdivision ???

The land being set aside as "wilderness" is already federally owned USFS, BLM, or NPS land.  Otherwise, it would have to be bought from private landowners.  (or confiscated  :O )

Actually, there was a guy (millionaire) who owned a deeded inholding in the West Elk Wilderness.  He made plans to helicopter in the materials and workman to build a fancy house.  The FS scrambled and arranged to do a land swap.  I actually worked on another one of his houses.
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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2009, 09:41:41 PM »
This is the least of our problems in the USA. Wilderness is good.

I'm with Tallpine about the trails though. In my RMNP trip this last fall it was like Disney World the first day with all the day hikers. It took two full days to escape people.

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charby

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Re: Senate boosts wilderness protection across US
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2009, 11:40:20 PM »
This is the least of our problems in the USA. Wilderness is good.

I'm with Tallpine about the trails though. In my RMNP trip this last fall it was like Disney World the first day with all the day hikers. It took two full days to escape people.



That place is 90 minutes from Denver, I was out there in March of 1997 during the week, during a snowstorm and it was busy.

I'm looking forward to some solemity this summer in the Bob Marshall.
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