Author Topic: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge  (Read 8323 times)

gunsmith

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co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« on: December 16, 2011, 12:16:20 AM »
It seems as if just because he legally owns a pistol that he thinks can follow fed laws and check his gun in at the airport prior to boarding like regular Americans can every where in the USA.

NYC isn't part of the USA anymore, this crapola has got to be stopped.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/tea_party_leader_mark_meckler_arrested_with_handgu.php
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never_retreat

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2011, 12:26:23 AM »
Obviously the guys destination was NY so he should not have had a gun.
But who cares that he has a permit from where he is from and not one in NY, that makes no difference.
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gunsmith

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2011, 12:26:48 AM »
As a native New Yorker I find his arrest appalling, I have a NV LTC & cant visit if I bring my Glock. It's a disgusting violation of both the spirit & letter of the Bill Of Rights.

This abhorrent violation of basic rights must end and perpetrators of this fascist policy should receive long prison sentences.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

gunsmith

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2011, 12:31:30 AM »
Obviously the guys destination was NY so he should not have had a gun.
But who cares that he has a permit from where he is from and not one in NY, that makes no difference.


I think he decided to be a test case, he would have been fine in Philly ... what NYC is doing is unconstitutional, especially WRT mcdonald/heller.

If the 2A is indeed incorporated then this crud has to stop, if it doesn't then we have to get creative and have every ccw'er become LE, like ajax on calguns is working toward. Messed up states can only hold on to this absurd crud for so long. It must end soon.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

RoadKingLarry

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 02:11:58 AM »
The first story I read had much less detail. It does kind of look like he maybe setting up a test case.
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wmenorr67

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2011, 02:30:09 AM »
I think he decided to be a test case, he would have been fine in Philly ... what NYC is doing is unconstitutional, especially WRT mcdonald/heller.

If the 2A is indeed incorporated then this crud has to stop, if it doesn't then we have to get creative and have every ccw'er become LE, like ajax on calguns is working toward. Messed up states can only hold on to this absurd crud for so long. It must end soon.

If you are going to be a test case you might as well go after the biggest dog in the fight.  You beat NYC/NYS and the whole house of cards will crumble.
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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2011, 04:12:50 AM »
I feel dirty after linking to that website. Every single follow-on comment was either petty name calling or views of such an extreme antithesis to my own that I can not comprehend any circumstances where a reasonable thinking person could adopt such. If anybody needs me I'll be in the shower for the next hour or so.

seeker_two

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2011, 06:00:27 AM »
Good luck to him....hope Gura is in on this one....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

vaskidmark

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 07:04:17 AM »
The "test case" theory does not hold much water for me.  There have been almost a dozen cases in NY and NJ, and to date everybody has lost to the state.  Unless they have a new and novel theory to try out I don't see why anybody would try to rehash old news.

As much as I find the decisions abhorent, I must admit that they are all based on a strict reading of FOPA and NY's firearm possession permit laws.  Folks who need to change planes in NY/NJ should by this time know enough to check their baggage all the way through rather than claim it from airline A and then check it in with airline B.

Additionally, the 5:20 AM time makes me think there was a stop along the way involving an overnight stay.  If that was the case and the baggage was taken outside the airport* the fella was even dumber than if he merely collected and then checked his baggage for the second leg of his trip.

Before I close I feel I ought to mention that folks transiting NY/NJ that want their firearm at the end of their journey always have the option of shipping it to themself at their destination.  There are many levels of suck associated with feeling that is necessary, but all those levels are IMHO better than being arrested on a gun charge in NY/NJ.

stay safe.

* Case law in NY does not make any distinction regarding remaining within the sterile area or not - take possession of a firearm in NY without a NY possession permit and you are a criminal.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Jamie B

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 08:24:53 AM »
If you are going to be a test case you might as well go after the biggest dog in the fight.  You beat NYC/NYS and the whole house of cards will crumble.
Hopefully, the guy is brighter than he looks.....
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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 08:27:54 AM »
I feel dirty after linking to that website. Every single follow-on comment was either petty name calling or views of such an extreme antithesis to my own that I can not comprehend any circumstances where a reasonable thinking person could adopt such. If anybody needs me I'll be in the shower for the next hour or so.

I may end up in the burn ward because of the scalding hot water I had to use. Those people are morons.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Seenterman

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 02:10:03 PM »
That article is short on info. A few things I'd like to know,

How did he get the firearm in to NY?
What were the exact circumstances?
Did he actually stay  overnight in NY with his pistol or was he just traveling through?

Every gun owner should know, especially if your traveling to NY that you need a permit just to possess a pistol. It's sad that he may be licensed in his home state to do what would get him arrested in NY but you need to know the laws of where your traveling to especially if your doing so with a firearm.

Tallpine

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 02:22:22 PM »
Visiting foreign dictatorships is always risky.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 04:43:55 PM »
That article is short on info. A few things I'd like to know,

How did he get the firearm in to NY?
What were the exact circumstances?
Did he actually stay  overnight in NY with his pistol or was he just traveling through?

Every gun owner should know, especially if your traveling to NY that you need a permit just to possess a pistol. It's sad that he may be licensed in his home state to do what would get him arrested in NY but you need to know the laws of where your traveling to especially if your doing so with a firearm.

One of the article  commenters linked to his supposed itinerary. If it's accurate, he spent a good deal of time in and about NYC, which IMO, is not the smartest way to pull off a test case, if that's in fact what he was trying to do. A good test case would be to try, with a firearm in checked baggage, what has happened to me before (without a checked firearm): I've on two separate occasions gotten screwed by an airline on a connecting flight (both times at LAX) where I had to actually collect my baggage at one airline's baggage claim, then check everything back in again at another airline, and it involved walking my bags outside from one end of the airport to the other.

If something like that happened to someone that was going through La Guardia with a firearm, they'd technically be committing a felony, and it would be different than that one guy who got stuck overnight in NYC and arrested the next day. In the situation I'm outlining, the traveler is technically still traveling and still on airport property, and should have some protection under the law, but I don't believe that's so in NY.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Jamie B

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2011, 05:06:25 PM »
A felony conviction in NY will probably negate that CA permit, and any future permit from any state.

Seems like a real bonehead move to me.
Greatness lies not in being strong, but in the right use of strength - Henry Ward Beecher

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Lee

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2011, 05:27:32 PM »
I agree.  It's funny how Tea Party folks are always talking about state rights vs. Federal mandates...but only when the state agrees with them.

Tallpine

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2011, 07:02:44 PM »
Quote
state rights vs. Federal mandates

That pesky constitution and bill of rights ...  =(
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Ben

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2011, 07:17:33 PM »
I agree.  It's funny how Tea Party folks are always talking about state rights vs. Federal mandates...but only when the state agrees with them.

Well, I think there's a little more to it than that. I sure see the "99%" hippies jump on state rights when it gives them the freedom to smoke the Mary Jane, and Federal mandates when that suits their needs.

Frankly, I see nothing wrong with that when you're fighting to protect a freedom, whether it's your second amendment rights, or your rights to smoke your marijuana. Just because I don't like a freedom doesn't mean it shouldn't exist, especially when it is an unalienable right, as is the 2nd.

The way it should work is that Federal mandates step in when a state is restricting freedom, and State rights come into play when Federal mandates attempt to restrict freedom.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Lee

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2011, 09:27:52 PM »
Yeah... I understand the double standard and the Constitutional dilemma, but still, that's what local control is all about.  There has always been, and always will be, limits to where a person can or cannot carry a weapon (without a permit anyway) whether it's the White House, the outhouse, the saloon, or New York.  Technically, his right to bear arms is infringed when he can't carry on the plane -so why didn't he just stick it in his waistband?  New Yorkers should be free to determine local laws, while we are free not to go there, or go there at risk....just as a small town in Kansas (or wherever) should be allowed to have a nativity scene at the courthouse if that's their choosing. I realize this could be carried to the nth level and the topic of slavery or whatnot could come up, but there's always going to be a need to exercise moderation as well. 


MicroBalrog

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2011, 09:29:43 PM »
I agree.  It's funny how Tea Party folks are always talking about state rights vs. Federal mandates...but only when the state agrees with them.

Actual Tea Party views do not work like that.
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vaskidmark

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2011, 09:35:08 PM »
Seems the guy was staying in NYC for several days before this arrest took place.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/tea_party_leader_mark_meckler_arrested_with_handgu.php


Quote
publius2009

Here's what I've found so far on Meckler's timeline:


Mon, Dec 12

10:16 AM

CNN's "American Morning"

Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle

http://am.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/12/what-does-the-tea-party-think-of-newt-gingrich-tea-party-patriots-co-founders-weigh-in/


Mon, Dec 12

6:00-8:30PM

Personal Democracy Media Flash Conference: "From the Tea Party to Occupy Wall Street and Beyond--The Future of Networked Democracy"

Richard L. Rosenthal Pavilion

10th Floor

60 Washington Square South

New York, 10012

http://www.hillmanfoundation.org/blog/flash-conference-tea-party-occupy-wall-street-and-beyond-future-networked-democracy http://pdmteaows.eventbrite.com/


Tue, Dec 13

7-8PM

Lou Dobbs Tonight

FOX News Studio

1211 Avenue Of The Americas

New York, NY 10036

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/lou-dobbs-tonight/index.html#/v/1326129716001/how-will-the-tea-party-impact-the-2012-election/?playlist_id=164630


Wed, Dec 14

Tom Sullivan Radio Show

FOX News Radio

1211 Avenue Of The Americas

New York, NY 10036

http://radio.foxnews.com/2011/12/14/audio-whos-the-tea-party-backing-in-the-gop-race/




If any of the reporters, producers, or staff on these any of these shows saw Meckler in possession of his gun or his gun safe, then the need to do the right thing and make a statement to their bosses, the NYPD and the public. At a minimum one or more of these shows/networks/conferences paid his airfare, hotels, meals, and travel expenses. If it turns out later they knew something and didn't say anything, then they deserve to be fired. Otherwise, they should be charged with concealing or assisting a felony.

If this is in fact acurate, the guy might just as well sign a confession and plead for mercy from the court based on being a stupidhead.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

TommyGunn

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2011, 11:34:24 PM »
Yeah... I understand the double standard and the Constitutional dilemma, but still, that's what local control is all about.  There has always been, and always will be, limits to where a person can or cannot carry a weapon (without a permit anyway) whether it's the White House, the outhouse, the saloon, or New York.  Technically, his right to bear arms is infringed when he can't carry on the plane -so why didn't he just stick it in his waistband?  New Yorkers should be free to determine local laws, while we are free not to go there, or go there at risk....just as a small town in Kansas (or wherever) should be allowed to have a nativity scene at the courthouse if that's their choosing. I realize this could be carried to the nth level and the topic of slavery or whatnot could come up, but there's always going to be a need to exercise moderation as well. 

Even if those laws violate the B.O.R.s?
Gee, I live in Alabama .... I wonder how well a law saying that Morgan County ought to allow owning blacks as slaves would go over, in spite of there being a amendment prohibiting it.  I mean, WE "should be free to determine local laws," right? ? [tinfoil] [tinfoil]

Oh :facepalm: wait.  I guess that wouldn't work so well.  =D ;/

Quote
....I realize this could be carried to the nth level and the topic of slavery or whatnot could come up.....
Well, oooooooooopsie. :angel:













Did we see THAT coming? [popcorn]
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MicroBalrog

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2011, 11:41:54 PM »
Quote
New Yorkers should be free to determine local laws, while we are free not to go there,

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


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vaskidmark

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2011, 12:13:38 AM »
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The state of the Second Amendment at this moment is that it guarantees the individual the right to posses a handgun in the home.  Not on their belt/in their pocket when they go outside the home.  Not in their baggage when they travel away from their home.

Yes, I know full well what the words on the parchment say and what The Founders probably did in fact mean when they wrote "shall not be infringed" but that just aint what the folks in the black bathrobes say it means, and they have the power at the moment.

Do you have any suggestions about how to change the status quo?

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

MrsSmith

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Re: co founder Tea Party Patriots arrested in NYC on a gun charge
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2011, 12:24:41 AM »
The way it should work is that Federal mandates step in when a state is restricting freedom, and State rights come into play when Federal mandates attempt to restrict freedom.

This. The perfect example of a check and balance system.
America is at that awkward stage; It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ~ Claire Wolfe