High School Bans American Flag

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2007-09-11-0027.html
AMPSON COUNTY, N.C.  On the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, students at one high school were not allowed to wear clothes with an American flag.

 

Under a new school rule, students at Hobbton High School are not allowed to wear items with flags, from any country, including the United States.
 
The new rule stems from a controversy over students wearing shirts bearing flags of other countries.
 
Gayle Langston said her daughter, Jessica, was told to remove her Stars and Stripes t-shirt.
 
Today she wanted to wear her shirt, and I had to tell her no, said Langston. She didn't like it at all because I knew it would get her in trouble. Of all days, 9/11, she could not wear her American Flag shirt.
 
The superintendent of schools in Sampson County calls the situation unfortunate, but says educators didnt want to be forced to pick and choose which flags should be permissible.

Freedom of speech issues here, but beyond that, how stupid can you be? We live in America.  I wonder which flag ought to be allowed, at the very minimum...

[Paddy]

The American flag is not an article of clothing. Never was, never should be.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

I agree, but that wasn't their point.  Their point was to not offend people.

[Standing Wolf]

The superintendent of schools in Sampson County calls the situation unfortunate, but says educators didnt want to be forced to pick and choose which flags should be permissible.

People without moral or intellectual standards have no business masquerading as "educators."

[Euclidean]

The superintendent of schools in Sampson County calls the situation unfortunate, but says educators didnt want to be forced to pick and choose which flags should be permissible.

People without moral or intellectual standards have no business masquerading as "educators."

Okay let's not go throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.  Riley makes an excellent point.

The American flag is not an article of clothing. Never was, never should be.

It ain't no rag it's a flag, as Mr. Daniels sings.

That superintendent is damned if he do, and damned if he don't.

If he allows the American flag shirts, he is an idiot because he's violating flag code and some people will get offended that's the only flag motif allowed.

If he refuses to allow any flag shirts, he's an idiot because suddenly he's obviously an unpatriotic libtard.

What in the devil is he supposed to do?

What would have been more reasonable is to allow for ribbons, patches, and lapel pins on 9/11 as a special treat, a one day vacation from the dress code in a way, but also make an announcement that the American flag as clothing violates flag laws and school dress code and is not appropriate.  But that's Monday Morning Quarterback talk.

[Iapetus]

What are these "flag laws" that would be violated by wearing clothes with flags on them?

[The Rabbi]

What are these "flag laws" that would be violated by wearing clothes with flags on them?

36 USC 173-171.

[French G.]

Kick the school resource officer out, he's got one on his uniform!  I agree with not making the flag items of clothing, but I suspect the school's intent has nothing to do with proper care and respect of the flag.

[Euclidean]

Kick the school resource officer out, he's got one on his uniform! 

But that's a miniature flag sewn onto a piece of clothing vs. a flag as a piece of clothing.  Yeah, pedantic, I know.

[Strings]

Rabbi, in my doped up state, I seem to be having trouble searching the US Code. Could you please quote the relevant sections?

[SteveS]

Freedom of speech issues here, but beyond that, how stupid can you be? We live in America.  I wonder which flag ought to be allowed, at the very minimum...

The policy that was probably implemented to avoid lawsuits.  A ban on a specific flag or flags would not survive a Constitutional challenge and would be thrown out.  OTOH, a ban on all flags would likely be upheld.  If the school is going to allow the US flag, then they would have to allow any other flag.

Rabbi, in my doped up state, I seem to be having trouble searching the US Code. Could you please quote the relevant sections?

From 4 USC 8:

No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speakers desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

[TarpleyG]

So, if I wanted to wear my little flag lapel pin I couldn't, correct?  Well, I'd like to see them try and take it off me.  Schools suck!  Betcha money if I wore an Iraqi flag or a Lebanese flag, they wouldn't say *expletive deleted*it about it...even with their little rule in place.  Schools suck!

Greg

[Euclidean]

So, if I wanted to wear my little flag lapel pin I couldn't, correct?  Well, I'd like to see them try and take it off me.  Schools suck!  Betcha money if I wore an Iraqi flag or a Lebanese flag, they wouldn't say *expletive deleted*it about it...even with their little rule in place.  Schools suck!

Greg

"Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."

The lapel pins are fine.  The difference is that instead of trying to make an article of clothing out of the flag (which is disrespectful), they are a flag.

And seriously, I have a bigger beef with the public education system than most, but we need to focus on substantive criticisms rather than speculation and this assumption that all people in that sector have certain political beliefs.  There are many issues of substance to bring up when criticizing the schools, but these blanket statements are simply inaccurate.

[Thor]

An E-Mail reply received by a friend of mine from the offending school district:

The Principals of all Sampson County Schools are to follow the Sampson County Board of Education policies and any dress code rules established by the principal in their local schools are hereby rescinded, including the banning of flags on clothing at Hobbton High School.

The Superintendent has requested that the Board of Education and the school board attorney revisit Sampson County Schools Policy "JCDB-A Student Dress Code and Appearance" to determine if modifications in the present policy should be made for all Sampson County Schools.

From this point, no principal is to create and implement a standing dress code rule for his or her school with approval of the Sampson County Board of Education.

The principal had implemented a policy banning flags on school clothing at his school due to problems last year of students wearing foreign flags on their clothing.  After disruptions in the school, including fights, this was determined to be gang-related as the students were showing their gang colors through these flags.  Acting in what the principal thought was "good faith" because of previous lawsuit against Sampson County Schools over "Free Speech", the principal banned all flags.

We regret this situation and as previously noted, all individual school policies concerning student dress has been rescinded.

[Sergeant Bob]

From 4 USC 8:

No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should never be used for covering a speakers desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should never be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

Lest anyone think there are laws prohibiting (contrary to what some may tell you) the wearing, disrespect of, burning in protest, wiping of your posterior with, however abhorrent these things may be.

Should does not equate to force of law.

[Desertdog]

The Superintendent has requested that the Board of Education and the school board attorney revisit Sampson County Schools Policy "JCDB-A Student Dress Code and Appearance" to determine if modifications in the present policy should be made for all Sampson County Schools.

It isn't over yet.

[Euclidean]

Lest anyone think there are laws prohibiting (contrary to what some may tell you) the wearing, disrespect of, burning in protest, wiping of your posterior with, however abhorrent these things may be.

Should does not equate to force of law.

Excellent point Sergeant Bob.  These "laws" or this "code" is more a matter of etiquette than anything, which is why they don't upset me and aren't a 1A infringement.  Flag laws get broken all the time (how many tattered flags do you see hanging around?  I see a lot personally) but nobody ever goes to jail for it (nor should they).

[gunsmith]

in the late sixties Abbie Hoffman made quite a stir wearing an American Flag shirt, nowadays though
right wingers wear them and the lefties despise American Flag shirts.