Author Topic: This is why taxing the rich is popular  (Read 3832 times)

Balog

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This is why taxing the rich is popular
« on: November 14, 2013, 04:38:53 PM »
Not saying I agree with the sentiment, but it's understandable.

mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/fashion/chef-run-service-teaches-nannies-recipes-that-skip-the-microwave.html?from=style
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cordex

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2013, 04:52:32 PM »
I don't understand your sentiment.  Why is this an issue for you?

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2013, 05:19:45 PM »
Looks like the free market at work.   Parents have good gigs, so they hire a nanny.  Then they hire a couple of guys to teach the nanny to cook "International" dishes.

As long as everyone is doing this of their our free will (and agree to the terms of payment), what's the problem.
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Balog

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2013, 06:01:29 PM »
One of the things I love about APS is that you can post an article, state that you don't agree with the premise, and then get attacked for holding the belief you have explicitly repudiated. /sigh I'm going to explain the reasoning now, feel free to stop shooting the messenger and claiming that because I am capable of understanding divergent opinions that I am therefore a vile commie that you need to argue out of my positions ok?

As for why this sort of thing lends popular support to taxing the rich more heavily, are you really claiming not to understand why that would be so? It's incomprehensible to you all why a person who is struggling to make ends meet would look at folks who's biggest concern is that their kid's nanny would not inculcate an early love of quinoa and not be particularly heartbroken over the idea that they would be subject to a higher marginal tax rate?

There's the anarchist position that no taxes are justified, because no government is justified. But once there is a moral argument made and accepted for the existence of .gov and taxes, then there is not much room for moral outrage over the various tax proposals. If you make $20k a year, then a relatively low tax rate will be burdensome to your basic ability to live. If you make several million a year, then a fairly high tax rate will in no significant way impact your daily life. Many people view this as a fairly compelling logic in favor of tax rates increasing with income.

Poor person: if my taxes go up, I will lose my home and my wife children and I will be living in a car.
Very rich person: if my taxes go up my nanny might not even know the difference between quinoa and coucous!
Libertarian: I don’t see why that would lead anyone to not object to higher taxes on the rich.

Again, I am not advocating taxing the rich more. I’m merely saying that it’s not an unreasonable reaction. How often do we preach personal responsibility on here? Rape is never ok, but if you goto a frat party dressed like a hooker and get blackout drunk then it’s not terribly surprising if it happens. And if you get articles written about your horror at the plebeian culinary standards of your kid’s nanny it’s not terribly surprising if normal people don’t give a sht if your taxes go up.
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charby

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2013, 06:06:17 PM »
One of the things I love about APS is that you can post an article, state that you don't agree with the premise, and then get attacked for holding the belief you have explicitly repudiated. /sigh I'm going to explain the reasoning now, feel free to stop shooting the messenger and claiming that because I am capable of understanding divergent opinions that I am therefore a vile commie that you need to argue out of my positions ok?

As for why this sort of thing lends popular support to taxing the rich more heavily, are you really claiming not to understand why that would be so? It's incomprehensible to you all why a person who is struggling to make ends meet would look at folks who's biggest concern is that their kid's nanny would not inculcate an early love of quinoa and not be particularly heartbroken over the idea that they would be subject to a higher marginal tax rate?

There's the anarchist position that no taxes are justified, because no government is justified. But once there is a moral argument made and accepted for the existence of .gov and taxes, then there is not much room for moral outrage over the various tax proposals. If you make $20k a year, then a relatively low tax rate will be burdensome to your basic ability to live. If you make several million a year, then a fairly high tax rate will in no significant way impact your daily life. Many people view this as a fairly compelling logic in favor of tax rates increasing with income.

Poor person: if my taxes go up, I will lose my home and my wife children and I will be living in a car.
Very rich person: if my taxes go up my nanny might not even know the difference between quinoa and coucous!
Libertarian: I don’t see why that would lead anyone to not object to higher taxes on the rich.

Again, I am not advocating taxing the rich more. I’m merely saying that it’s not an unreasonable reaction. How often do we preach personal responsibility on here? Rape is never ok, but if you goto a frat party dressed like a hooker and get blackout drunk then it’s not terribly surprising if it happens. And if you get articles written about your horror at the plebeian culinary standards of your kid’s nanny it’s not terribly surprising if normal people don’t give a sht if your taxes go up.


Now that is a well thought out answer. Bravo!
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Scout26

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 06:23:42 PM »
One of the things I love about APS is that you can post an article, state that you don't agree with the premise, and then get attacked for holding the belief you have explicitly repudiated. /sigh I'm going to explain the reasoning now, feel free to stop shooting the messenger and claiming that because I am capable of understanding divergent opinions that I am therefore a vile commie that you need to argue out of my positions ok?

As for why this sort of thing lends popular support to taxing the rich more heavily, are you really claiming not to understand why that would be so? It's incomprehensible to you all why a person who is struggling to make ends meet would look at folks who's biggest concern is that their kid's nanny would not inculcate an early love of quinoa and not be particularly heartbroken over the idea that they would be subject to a higher marginal tax rate?

There's the anarchist position that no taxes are justified, because no government is justified. But once there is a moral argument made and accepted for the existence of .gov and taxes, then there is not much room for moral outrage over the various tax proposals. If you make $20k a year, then a relatively low tax rate will be burdensome to your basic ability to live. If you make several million a year, then a fairly high tax rate will in no significant way impact your daily life. Many people view this as a fairly compelling logic in favor of tax rates increasing with income.

Poor person: if my taxes go up, I will lose my home and my wife children and I will be living in a car.
Very rich person: if my taxes go up my nanny might not even know the difference between quinoa and coucous!
Libertarian: I don’t see why that would lead anyone to not object to higher taxes on the rich.

Again, I am not advocating taxing the rich more. I’m merely saying that it’s not an unreasonable reaction. How often do we preach personal responsibility on here? Rape is never ok, but if you goto a frat party dressed like a hooker and get blackout drunk then it’s not terribly surprising if it happens. And if you get articles written about your horror at the plebeian culinary standards of your kid’s nanny it’s not terribly surprising if normal people don’t give a sht if your taxes go up.


I was not saying anything about you or your beliefs.    I was merely pointing out that everything in the article is a voluntary market transaction.   The NYT is typical of the Limousine Liberal mindset.  "Our Nannies need to learn Ethiopian cooking techniques, meanwhile you plebes need to pony up for Healthcare for everyone."

Be that as it may.  Perhaps fleshing out your premise for posting this story in your original post, much as you did in your second post, would have avoided any confusion.   

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Balog

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 06:24:02 PM »
Now that is a well thought out answer. Bravo!

Thanks. I'm trying this new thing where I'm less of a sarcastic dick, we'll see how it goes.  ;)
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Balog

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 06:26:32 PM »
I was not saying anything about you or your beliefs.    I was merely pointing out that everything in the article is a voluntary market transaction.   The NYT is typical of the Limousine Liberal mindset.  "Our Nannies need to learn Ethiopian cooking techniques, meanwhile you plebes need to pony up for Healthcare for everyone."

Be that as it may.  Perhaps fleshing out your premise for posting this story in your original post, much as you did in your second post, would have avoided any confusion.   



I wasn't really intending it as a commentary beyond "Get a load of these tools, they're so clueless pre-Revolution French aristocracy think they're out of touch." Which is why I added the disclaimer about not personally believing it is justification for higher tax rates.
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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 06:49:29 PM »
All well and good IF the nanny is getting extra pay for now assuming the duties of cook.

Parents want high-end/hippie/yuppie food given to their kids, do not divert the attention of the person you hired to watch over and entertain your treasures to attend to this new task.

And do not tell me that the nanny can bring the kid(s) into the kitchen and make a learning expereience out of meal prep.  Would you want Lord/Lady Flaunteroy playing with knives and exposed flames?  The horrors!

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 07:05:17 PM »
Thanks. I'm trying this new thing where I'm less of a sarcastic dick, we'll see how it goes.  ;)

The hardest thing about typing sarcasm in short form is that many times people don't see the sarcasm of the writer. Plus we can't see your facial expressions which helps with understanding short whitty sarcastic statements.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 07:21:30 PM »
Thanks. I'm trying this new thing where I'm less of a sarcastic dick, we'll see how it goes.  ;)

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Re: Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2013, 07:27:01 PM »
Michelle Obama's version is "Let tem eat kale."
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zahc

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2013, 08:27:24 PM »
If the rich people have so much easy-spending money, and the poor are so hard up, the situation should rectify itself. It sounds like a nanny and two cooking tutors are being successful in redistributing some of that wealth to themselves. If the market were freer with less regulatory barriers everywhere, it would be easier to grab a piece of the pie. Even our richest people offen do their own shopping, driving, and even laundry, and I always wondered why that is.
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cordex

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2013, 08:36:25 PM »
because I am capable of understanding divergent opinions
We're not really talking about divergent opinions so much as we're talking about raw envy.  Yeah, I can understand envy, but that isn't exactly a tough one to get.

As for why this sort of thing lends popular support to taxing the rich more heavily, are you really claiming not to understand why that would be so? It's incomprehensible to you all why a person who is struggling to make ends meet would look at folks who's biggest concern is that their kid's nanny would not inculcate an early love of quinoa and not be particularly heartbroken over the idea that they would be subject to a higher marginal tax rate?
What I don't understand is why this particular issue is the big problem.  Paying $2,500 for your nanny to take a cooking class?  Okay, the folks who are doing that are obviously not worrying too much about money (assuming they aren't just living on credit).  Why does this example drive the class warfare bus more than multimillion dollar homes, yachts, cars that cost far more than my house, private jets, bottles of booze that cost more than my family's monthly grocery budget, etc?  What is it about these folks wanting their kids to be food snobs that makes this such a particularly good example for those "others" to point to when trying to prove why the rich's fair share should be so much larger?

If you make $20k a year, then a relatively low tax rate will be burdensome to your basic ability to live. If you make several million a year, then a fairly high tax rate will in no significant way impact your daily life. Many people view this as a fairly compelling logic in favor of tax rates increasing with income.
At this point, the conversation isn't about taxes going up a little bit for everyone or a little bit more for the rich.  Our poor (say your $20K a year example) don't pay net taxes at all, and indeed receive direct redistribution from the rich (and the not so rich).  But I'll play along.  The theoretical person who is going to lose all their worldly possessions if they have to pay more taxes isn't going to see much of a difference between this and someone who never sees combat spending thousands of dollars on guns, training, hunting trips and ammo.  They are going to see anyone not living hand-to-mouth as being a suitable target for taxes.  That's the pernicious thing about envy; everyone is capable of it and it can be directed at everyone that might be perceived as doing better.

Again, I am not advocating taxing the rich more. I’m merely saying that it’s not an unreasonable reaction.
I guess that depends on what you consider to be reasonable.  It is a reaction that requires a variety of false assumptions and is based on the belief that it is your business how others spend their money.  Moreover, it requires the utterly backwards presumption that someone else spending extra money causes harm to others rather than providing opportunity.

How often do we preach personal responsibility on here?
Let's not pretend that the desire for people we don't like to pay more is about personal responsibility.

And if you get articles written about your horror at the plebeian culinary standards of your kid’s nanny it’s not terribly surprising if normal people don’t give a sht if your taxes go up.
If people have more money than they "need" then it doesn't matter what they do with it short of giving it away, people will find fault with them.  Hell, even if they give it away folks will complain that the wrong people got it.

Perd Hapley

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 10:05:17 PM »
As for why this sort of thing lends popular support to taxing the rich more heavily, are you really claiming not to understand why that would be so? It's incomprehensible to you all why a person who is struggling to make ends meet would look at folks who's biggest concern is that their kid's nanny would not inculcate an early love of quinoa and not be particularly heartbroken over the idea that they would be subject to a higher marginal tax rate?


The nanny consulting is no more egregious than all of the people on gun boards, posting pictures of their extensive gun collections in expensive safes, stacks of ammo, and a room full of reloading equipment. Plenty of us out there that would like to have the problem of, hmmmmm, which expertly blue-printed and tuned Colt would I like carry today, and which $150 holster should I use, with my $60 5.11 pants?

If this were a reality show, sure, that would be ostentatious. But how many people are going to read an article like this?

These rich folk are just enabling a couple of chefs to make loads more money than they might have earned somewhere else. And the nanny gets free OJT. Win-win.
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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2013, 10:54:51 PM »
Hey, I think that anyone making over a million bucks a year should not have to pay any taxes.  If it were so, they'd plow the money they now hide into the economy before the goobermint got it's filthy hands on it and stole 75% of the 100% it misappropriated stole from the millionare to support the goobermint graft and corruption.  I'd rather see a poor congressman with holes in his shoes than having my rich neighbor trade down from his Mercedes to a Honda Fit.

In the article, those filthy richy rich's provided 3 jobs to the unwashed.  If they paid no taxes, they'd hire a chef, and a couple other servants, maybe even a driver, providing more work for the unwashed...to say nothing of the "money coach" they'd hire to be able to learn how to squander and Lord it.

What the hell is wrong with you people.
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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 01:05:51 AM »
Thanks. I'm trying this new thing where I'm less of a sarcastic dick, we'll see how it goes.  ;)

Good luck with that.  I tried it once, and it didn't go so well.   ;/
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Balog

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 01:14:28 AM »
 :facepalm:

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 05:55:52 AM »
Since the rich are the ones who create jobs directly (owning, investing in, & running businesses) and indirectly (consumerism), taxing the rich IS taxing the poor....

Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 08:53:11 AM »

I posted this on Facebook, along with a comment of "Vishnu on a pogo stick, that is the gorram whitest article I've read in my life. It's so white, the reflection burned out my retinas and I'm running around screaming with burning holes in my face."  Should they be allowed to be so yuppie? Uh, yes, of course. You can still want to hit someone with a frying pan and want to defend their right to be an annoying git. Wanting to != actually doing. For those saying, "Don't hate on the rich". Two names. Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus. Both are ridiculous individuals, that should be hit with frying pans to knock some sense into them. To any that say they're job creators and blah blah blah, true, but BESIDES THE POINT.

Mocking them isn't wrong, it's a gorram artform! One of the HIGHEST artforms. I think napalming hippies is the only thing that comes close.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2013, 09:25:18 AM »
If you imagine this stuff is limited to high sunblock numbers only it may reflect on your own sunblock score. Its an economic thing not a color thing


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Firethorn

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2013, 11:44:20 PM »
Mocking them isn't wrong, it's a gorram artform! One of the HIGHEST artforms. I think napalming hippies is the only thing that comes close.

However, I'd make the point that we rag on Justin and Miley and such because of who they are, not how rich they are.  Do we rag on the non-socially active Warren Buffet?  Bill Gates could buy both out of pocket change, and we spend more time railing about his software than we do about him.

Napalming hippies is great fun, but it doesn't really matter whether they're poor hippies or filthy rich hippies.  It's fun because they're hippies.

Rich people hiring chefs to teach their nannies?  I'm going to have to agree with fistful, it's employing people and should we really look down on people who are actually providing training?  That should eventually enable the Nanny to demand higher wages and all that.

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2013, 12:49:17 AM »
I can understand, mentally, how folk could envy the "wealth has overrun their common sense crowd."  But, I can not emotionally.  IOW, I can reason through it, but I can't muster the will to get upset about something on which an affluent person spent lots of money.  Perhaps my narcissism has made my envy its punk, because I could not care less about keeping up with the Joneses.  Screw the Joneses, I like what I have earned and wrought just fine, thanks.  I keep up appearances mostly so others feel comfortable and so my kids don't catch any grief on my behalf. 

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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2013, 09:31:02 AM »
I can understand, mentally, how folk could envy the "wealth has overrun their common sense crowd."  But, I can not emotionally.  IOW, I can reason through it, but I can't muster the will to get upset about something on which an affluent person spent lots of money.  Perhaps my narcissism has made my envy its punk, because I could not care less about keeping up with the Joneses.  Screw the Joneses, I like what I have earned and wrought just fine, thanks.  I keep up appearances mostly so others feel comfortable and so my kids don't catch any grief on my behalf. 



Yeah, but a lot of the dipshits that do vote care about keeping up with the jones.

So, they see this artical and think "TAX THE RICH!" and vote accordingly.
Which is probably an improvement on grabbing pitchforks and gillitines, but still.

So we all get screwed. The rich, the poor and those of us who get what's really going on and don't give two craps about the Jones spending habits.

All because Madam Ritzy couldn't keep her mouth shut about her poor children eating substandard local cusine.

Although, I guess the real blame falls on the rag that published the story rather on Madam Ritzy.

Envy isn't a rational reaction, but it's commen and a very human thing to feel. When you have a large population that is trained from a young age to react to feelings rathet then rational thought, combined with those who inspire envy mouthing off about *expletive deleted*it the poor can't even comprehend, you end up with a potentially explosive situation.
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Re: This is why taxing the rich is popular
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2013, 09:47:47 AM »
All well and good IF the nanny is getting extra pay for now assuming the duties of cook.

Parents want high-end/hippie/yuppie food given to their kids, do not divert the attention of the person you hired to watch over and entertain your treasures to attend to this new task.

And do not tell me that the nanny can bring the kid(s) into the kitchen and make a learning expereience out of meal prep.  Would you want Lord/Lady Flaunteroy playing with knives and exposed flames?  The horrors!

stay safe.

I would be more concerned with the future Lord/Lady Flauntleroy nuking the cat while the nanny's back is turned ...
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