Author Topic: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"  (Read 13977 times)

Ben

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Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« on: August 20, 2013, 01:38:34 PM »
And immediately their parents go into "My baby wouldn't do something like this" mode (while admitting the kids were wannabe gangbangers and I guess thinking that wasn't enough of a clue to do some parenting).

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/20/police-say-teen-shot-australian-student-in-oklahoma-for-fun-it/
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Tallpine

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2013, 01:47:27 PM »
I don't suppose the killers were Black  ;/
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Boomhauer

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 01:49:23 PM »
Of course their baby wouldnt do something like that, it was the evil Somedood. Their innocent little angels were just having urban choir practice in the yard...


*expletive deleted*ing "parents" who arent and no personal responsibility...
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BobR

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 02:04:16 PM »
Quote
. The teens, ages 15, 16 and 17, can be tried as adults, but they can't face the death penalty since they are under the age of 18, a spokesperson for District Attorney Jason Hicks told the Sydney Morning Herald.

I wonder when this happened. In 1999 and 2003, Oklahoma executed people who were 16 and 17 at the time of their crime. They need to bring it back!

I grew up about 35 miles from Duncan and after I retired and went back to go to school, I did some clinicals in the hospital there. I moved away from there for good in 2000.

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 02:15:07 PM »
okie gangbangers?   i thought the gangs stayed away from the heartland.
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

vaskidmark

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 02:15:37 PM »
 
Quote
to do some parenting

That's not their responsibility.  Society is supposed to do that.  The schools are supposed to teach them right from wrong - when differentiating right from wrong does not interfere with self esteem and self actualization.  Churches used to be responsible for teaching that stuff, until enlightenment convinced us that the imposition of a value system that does not come from the government is some sort of violation of the child's rights.

Lately the prosecutors in my area have been throwing a child neglect charge on top of anything else there might be when a parent/caretaker commits some offense when children were with them at the time.  A few drunken mommies who were out driving with the kiddies in the back seat have been charged with DUI and improper operation -- and child neglect.  We've recently had a parent charged with shoplifting - and because their kiddie was with them charges of contributing to the delinquency of a minor and child neglect were tacked on.  The shoplifting is a misdemeanor due to the dollar amount involved. Contributing is a misdemeanor because sex was not involved.  Neglect is a Class Six felony - minumum of 5 years with the possibility of $25,000 also being assessed.

Even if tacking on the felony neglect charge in those cases is merely meant as a wake-up, it is a perversion of the elements of the offense.  On the other hand, these three choirboy candidates seem to be suffering from some intentional ommission that meets the elements in Paragraph B:

Quote
§ 18.2-371.1. Abuse and neglect of children; penalty; abandoned infant.

A. Any parent, guardian, or other person responsible for the care of a child under the age of 18 who by willful act or omission or refusal to provide any necessary care for the child's health causes or permits serious injury to the life or health of such child shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony. For purposes of this subsection, "serious injury" shall include but not be limited to (i) disfigurement, (ii) a fracture, (iii) a severe burn or laceration, (iv) mutilation, (v) maiming, (vi) forced ingestion of dangerous substances, or (vii) life-threatening internal injuries.

B. 1. Any parent, guardian, or other person responsible for the care of a child under the age of 18 whose willful act or omission in the care of such child was so gross, wanton and culpable as to show a reckless disregard for human life shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

2. If a prosecution under this subsection is based solely on the accused parent having left the child at a hospital or rescue squad, it shall be an affirmative defense to prosecution of a parent under this subsection that such parent safely delivered the child to a hospital that provides 24-hour emergency services or to an attended rescue squad that employs emergency medical technicians, within the first 14 days of the child's life. In order for the affirmative defense to apply, the child shall be delivered in a manner reasonably calculated to ensure the child's safety.

C. Any parent, guardian or other person having care, custody, or control of a minor child who in good faith is under treatment solely by spiritual means through prayer in accordance with the tenets and practices of a recognized church or religious denomination shall not, for that reason alone, be considered in violation of this section.


Letting your spawn go around doing stuff that will end them in prison for the rest of their life seems to me to be a gross, wanton, and reckless disregard for the outcome of said spawn's life.  And besides, flogging was abolished.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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vaskidmark

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 02:18:22 PM »
I wonder when this happened. In 1999 and 2003, Oklahoma executed people who were 16 and 17 at the time of their crime. They need to bring it back!

I grew up about 35 miles from Duncan and after I retired and went back to go to school, I did some clinicals in the hospital there. I moved away from there for good in 2000.

bob



2005.

SCOTUS said killing juveniles was cruel and unusual.  Here's the details: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/u-s-supreme-court-roper-v-simmons-no-03-633

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Boomhauer

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 02:47:13 PM »
2005.

SCOTUS said killing juveniles was cruel and unusual.  Here's the details: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/u-s-supreme-court-roper-v-simmons-no-03-633

stay safe.

Ought to be able to sentence them and wait till their 18th birthday to execute. Happy birthday mother *expletive deleted*er!
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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Viking

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 02:48:20 PM »
2005.

SCOTUS said killing juveniles was cruel and unusual.  Here's the details: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/u-s-supreme-court-roper-v-simmons-no-03-633

stay safe.
I've honestly never understood the 8th Amendment. Punishments, by their nature, must be both cruel and unusual, otherwise they aren't punishments. Locking someone up is in fact cruel - they are denied their freedom to go about as they please, and it's also unusual, as in "doesn't happen to you every day".

Any chance of it being overturned?
“The modern world will not be punished. It is the punishment.” — Nicolás Gómez Dávila

MechAg94

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2013, 03:25:58 PM »
I've honestly never understood the 8th Amendment. Punishments, by their nature, must be both cruel and unusual, otherwise they aren't punishments. Locking someone up is in fact cruel - they are denied their freedom to go about as they please, and it's also unusual, as in "doesn't happen to you every day".

Any chance of it being overturned?
That is a modern interpretation.  At the time, I think stuff like hard labor and hanging were considered normal.  I think long prison terms were less common as few had resources to pay guards or feed prisoners. 
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Fitz

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2013, 03:27:48 PM »
Ought to be able to sentence them and wait till their 18th birthday to execute. Happy birthday mother *expletive deleted*er!

I laughed heartily at this.

Thanks :-D
Fitz

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HankB

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2013, 03:42:12 PM »
I've honestly never understood the 8th Amendment. Punishments, by their nature, must be both cruel and unusual, otherwise they aren't punishments . . .
I think in the original context it meant "disproportionate to the offence." So hanging a person for making a funny face at the King would be "cruel and unusual" but hanging him for murdering two shopkeepers and a coachman would not.

As for this crime, if it happened as described in the linked article - a deliberate, premeditated murder done simply for the fun of it - hanging would not fit my idea of "cruel and unusual" punishment; rather, hanging would be "just and appropriate."
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Tallpine

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 03:45:49 PM »
I think in the original context it meant "disproportionate to the offence." So hanging a person for making a funny face at the King would be "cruel and unusual" but hanging him for murdering two shopkeepers and a coachman would not.

As for this crime, if it happened as described in the linked article - a deliberate, premeditated murder done simply for the fun of it - hanging would not fit my idea of "cruel and unusual" punishment; rather, hanging would be "just and appropriate."

Hopefully the killers will at least hear the train coming round the bend while not seeing any sunshine.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Balog

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 04:07:46 PM »
I think in the original context it meant "disproportionate to the offence." So hanging a person for making a funny face at the King would be "cruel and unusual" but hanging him for murdering two shopkeepers and a coachman would not.

As for this crime, if it happened as described in the linked article - a deliberate, premeditated murder done simply for the fun of it - hanging would not fit my idea of "cruel and unusual" punishment; rather, hanging would be "just and appropriate."

My understanding (could be wrong) was that cruel and unusual referred to some of the wacky punishments en vogue back then. So whipping a theif was ok, sitting him on top of a pointy doghouse with weights tied to his legs would not be.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 04:20:33 PM »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Viking

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2013, 04:26:57 PM »
That is a modern interpretation.  At the time, I think stuff like hard labor and hanging were considered normal.  I think long prison terms were less common as few had resources to pay guards or feed prisoners.  
Got no problems with either.

I think in the original context it meant "disproportionate to the offence." So hanging a person for making a funny face at the King would be "cruel and unusual" but hanging him for murdering two shopkeepers and a coachman would not.

As for this crime, if it happened as described in the linked article - a deliberate, premeditated murder done simply for the fun of it - hanging would not fit my idea of "cruel and unusual" punishment; rather, hanging would be "just and appropriate."
This makes sense. I'm also of the opinion that if the article is correct, capital punishment is the only fitting sentence here. Obviously for all of them - morally, they are equally guilty. Also, I have no problems with executing minors...
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 04:46:56 PM by Viking »
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Tallpine

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2013, 04:57:34 PM »
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Viking

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2013, 05:08:37 PM »
I wonder what their criminals records look like. The parent of one of the little hellspawn said that their little darling monster had been in trouble with the law for "childish" stuff. I'm suspecting that their opinion of "childish stuff" differs somewhat from the opinion of the average APS member regarding what constitutes "childish stuff".
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Levant

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2013, 05:30:42 PM »
It seems that Austrailian news doesn't have the same desire to protect savage murderers from public shame.  Pictures in the story below.

http://www.news.com.au/national-news/victoria/two-teens-charged-with-murdering-melbourne-baseball-player-chris-lane/story-fnii5sms-1226700172461
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brimic

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2013, 06:15:11 PM »
Quote
A multiracial gang: diversity of perversity.
At least one of them looks like obama trayvon.
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BobR

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2013, 07:06:46 PM »
Social media, what a wealth of ...... well, it is something.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/blackcoon44

Not surprisingly, there is quite a bit of hate going on there.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/chancey.luna?fref=ts

I don't think the other one was as computer literate as his friends.    ;)


And that leads you to mom:

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/servlet/page?_pageid=394&_dad=portal30&_schema=PORTAL30&doc_num=222161&offender_book_id=114021&imageindex=3

I first heard about this almost as soon as it happend, it was posted on a British bike forum, which has quite a few Australians on it. They were kind of taken aback how something like this could happen. I really didn't have a lot to say to them, after all, it is hard to explain how 3 teenagers just decide to go out and shoot someone, just for fun.

bob


cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

freakazoid

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2013, 07:30:17 PM »
like that trio?  love this one
http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2013/8/20/judge_considering_mi.html

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The problem was, she said something the court ruled earlier could not be said in front of the jury.

Under questioning from Hillsborough Assistant State Attorney Ron Gale, Bedwell said McTear told her over the phone "he was going to come over and shoot my baby in the face and ... was going to kill both of us."

Why would she not be allowed to say that?
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Teens Kill Student "For the Fun of It"
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2013, 07:43:55 PM »
Why would she not be allowed to say that?

not sure but in capital cases they get real persnickety. give the defendant every break to cut down appeals
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I