Wildfires in Hawaii

[WLJ]

People jumping into the sea to escape the flames.
Reported 36 dead but reading they're still finding bodies with many being pulled out of the water.

At least 36 dead from raging Hawaiian brush fires enhanced by Hurricane Dora, high pressure winds
https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/wildfire-hurricane-dora-maui-hawaii

Maui fires kill 36 people as entire town of Lahaina is wiped out leaving HUNDREDS homeless and frantic Hawaii locals continue to 'pull bodies from water'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12391903/Maui-wildfire-hawaii-torched-tourists-shelter-flames.html

[T.O.M.]

Spent a week in Lahaina/Kaanapali Beach back in 2017.  Fun little town, kind of what you might imagine a surfer/artist meets fishing town.  A TON less tourist trap than Waikiki has become.  Great little local restaurants, where I first had Maui Brewing Company Bikini Blonde lager.  Makes my top 10 list of favorite places I've been to, and a leader on my visit again list.

Truly saddened by this.

[JTHunter]

There was a story I was reading tonight about a 150 y.o. banyan tree that has been used for fairs and other gatherings as the tree provided the shade.  Now that many of those branches are scorched, they aren't sure it will survive.
Sad.

[WLJ]

Death toll now at 55, up Up to a 1,000 missing.

As firefighting efforts continue, 2 additional fatalities have been confirmed today amid the active Lahaina fire. This brings the death toll to 55 people,' a news release said.

Green said that the death toll was at 53, but rising, and confirmed 1,000 people remained missing - among them Williams.

The governor emphasized that he was not saying 1,000 people were dead, but that they were out of contact.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12396041/Hawaii-wildfires-Desperate-search-disabled-veteran-66-missing-sent-ominous-photo-family-governor-warns-toll-significantly-worse-1960-tsunami-killed-61-Cadaver-dogs-search-1-000-missing-53-dead.html

[WLJ]

80 now with hundreds still missing

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12399429/Lahaina-reopen-riot-wildfire-destroy-boats-harbor.html

[HankB]

What a terrible situation. 

It's hard to stop a wind-driven wild fire, but I saw a few interviews and people were wondering out loud where the fire department was.

From the Internet, Maui Fire Rescue has 279 personnel spread across 14 fire stations, 10 of which are on Maui. I didn't see any of them in the film footage that aired - maybe they were just overwhelmed by the scale and scope of the blaze. Spraying water from hoses when there's a rapidly advancing WALL of flame . . . well, there's only so much you can do.

Maybe before rebuilding they'll revise local code requirements to make the place more fire-resistant in the future.

[AmbulanceDriver]

What a terrible situation. 

It's hard to stop a wind-driven wild fire, but I saw a few interviews and people were wondering out loud where the fire department was.

From the Internet, Maui Fire Rescue has 279 personnel spread across 14 fire stations, 10 of which are on Maui. I didn't see any of them in the film footage that aired - maybe they were just overwhelmed by the scale and scope of the blaze. Spraying water from hoses when there's a rapidly advancing WALL of flame . . . well, there's only so much you can do.

Maybe before rebuilding they'll revise local code requirements to make the place more fire-resistant in the future.

When dealing with a quite literal firestorm with flames being driven by sustained 70+MPH winds.....  All firefighters with typical tankers and firetrucks could do is die pointlessly.

[T.O.M.]

When dealing with a quite literal firestorm with flames being driven by sustained 70+MPH winds.....  All firefighters with typical tankers and firetrucks could do is die pointlessly.

Yeah, as fast and as massive as this fire appears to have been, would have been like trying to hold back the tide with a bucket.

Keep hearing people looking for someone to "hold accountable," from the absence of firefighters to the lack of emergency warning sirens to blaming someone for the fire starting.  Even now blaming the government for a slow response.  I understand that's human nature, but seems to also be a sign of the world in which we live now.

[Hawkmoon]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hawaii-maui-fire-risks-plans-government-e883f3a3

Nearly a decade before a wildfire destroyed the coastal Maui town of Lahaina this week, killing at least 80 people, a report by Hawaiian fire researchers warned that the area was at extremely high risk of burning.   

Another report, in 2020, tied fires to winds from a passing hurricane—similar to the ones that fanned the Lahaina blaze.

And the state’s electric utility had for years worried about wildfire risk in the area. It even flew drones to monitor conditions.

In 2014, a wildfire-protection plan for the area was written by the Hawaii Wildfire Management Organization, a nonprofit that works with government agencies. It warned that Lahaina was among Maui’s most fire-prone areas because of its proximity to parched grasslands, steep terrain and frequent winds.

. . .

Some of the recommendations from the 2014 plan, which was devised after more than a half-dozen community meetings, were implemented, like brush thinning efforts and public education for landowners, said the report’s lead author, Elizabeth Pickett. But others, such as ramping up emergency-response capacity, have been stymied by a lack of funding, logistical hurdles in rugged terrain and competing priorities, said Pickett, co-executive director of the wildfire nonprofit. 

Sounds like the proverbial Soviet 5-year plans.

[230RN]

Damned close parallel to the Superior Colorado fire of 2010.  Started at the windward side of town, strong winds, firefighters and other responders were driving "100 mph" to get ahead of the flames to warn people.  I think it's officially called "The Marshall Fire" now because it actually started in the Marshall area under the foothills and actually involved three areas, Marshall, Superior, and Louisville.

This thread reads almost the same.  "Where was the FD?"

Breaking their asses to get ahead of the fire, that's where.

Sometimes they can work miracles, sometimes they can't.

Images are horrifyingly similar:

[BobR]

Just a random thought. In Hawaii they use very loud sirens to warn people of an approaching tsunami, had they set off the warning sirens how many people would  have attempted to flee inland, right to the fire, in order to escape what they have been conditioned to do when a tsunami siren sounds?  Just a thought. The death toll could have been much worse IMO had they used the sirens.

bob

[230RN]

Yes, in the Marshall fire, the escape routes were open to other areas.  From what I gather, many of the Maui victims were trapped between the fire and the sea.

Far afield and for what it's worth as a general principle, at traffic lights and other stopped situations, I never pull up close to the car in front of me.  I always leave enough "turnout" room even if there are cars in alongside lanes.  General principle/attitude/habit/paranoia/outlook is all.

[gunsmith]

  I watched the Oakland Hills fire from across the bay in SF .
they played a heartbreaking 911 call from a teen girl who was home alone, they told her to evacuate but she never made it .
 two people, a firefighter and a housewife - took shelter in a pool - under his firemans heavy coat.

[Doggy Daddy]

Far afield and for what it's worth as a general principle, at traffic lights and other stopped situations, I never pull up close to the car in front of me.  I always leave enough "turnout" room even if there are cars in alongside lanes.  General principle/attitude/habit/paranoia/outlook is all.

Smith System Key to Safe Driving #4    "Leave yourself an out."

[WLJ]

93 confirmed now.

[BobR]

There is at least one voice of reason out there and not completely blaming climate change for the disaster.

"Blaming this on weather and climate is misleading," said Clay Trauernicht, a University of Hawaii at Manoa professor and environmental management expert. "Hawai'i's fire problem is due to the vast areas of unmanaged, nonnative grasslands from decades of declining agriculture."

Almost like California and Canada and their lack of forest management and then they act surprised when they have massive fires.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/experts-throw-cold-water-dem-claims-hawaii-wildfires-caused-climate-change


bob

[HankB]

 . . . Almost like California and Canada and their lack of militant opposition to sound forest management and then they act surprised when they have massive fires . . .

FIFY 

[gunsmith]

Smith System Key to Safe Driving #4    "Leave yourself an out."

I took the smith course when I was driving for Loomis armored courier , that is one of the things I do religiously .
I was in the slow lane coming home from work, idiot in a CDL gas truck started tail gating me.
I sped up, but he decided to put his bumper inches behind me with his brights blinding me when we came to a red light ( my "new" car is a little mitzubishi mirage from the 90's really tiny )
"Fine, I'm not in a hurry and I'm gonna teach idiot a lesson in tailgating"  I took a good 3minutes or so to get thru the intersection with the frantic idiot honking like crazy, and went real slow until he finally realized the only way to pass was to stop tailgating me and merge into the left lane.
As soon as he merged I sped up again, got into the left lane, 3 cars ahead and kept up with traffic.
Idiot got back into the left lane and started tailgating someone else.

[Doggy Daddy]

"Fine, I'm not in a hurry and I'm gonna teach idiot a lesson in tailgating"  I took a good 3minutes or so to get thru the intersection with the frantic idiot honking like crazy, and went real slow until he finally realized the only way to pass was to stop tailgating me and merge into the left lane.

Key #6: "When all else fails, use their road rage against them."   

[230RN]

Never took a driving course except for Hard Knock University so my little hints are derived from driving since 1955-1956, not sure which.

Interesting that so many of my techniques seem to be showing up elsewhere, not that I claim "originality," only "experientality."

Tailgating, not much you can do except maybe flash your lights for them, slow down so the pass, carfeully and with plenty of warning, pull over and let them pass, and extend the distance from you to the car in front of you to give enough braking warning for the idiot tailgting you to wake up and pay attention.  I have noticed, and I'll get *expletive deleted*it for this, that women seem to tailgate more than men.

I'll also comment that it's always amusing when you let the tailgater zoom past and roar ahead, that you end up right behind them at the next light.

Hint:  whenever you do anything, signal with your whole car.  Meaning do it slooooowly.

I was also amused by the fact that I always figured that the ten o'clock and two o'clock rule was pretty stupic and arbitrary, and I now hear that the Highway Patrol is recommending nine and three.  Har-har!

OK, done my thread-drifting quota for this week.

Terry, 230RN

         

[BobR]

I was also amused by the fact that I always figured that the ten o'clock and two o'clock rule was pretty stupic and arbitrary, and I now hear that the Highway Patrol is recommending nine and three.  Har-har!



Terry, 230RN

         

I think that came about with the advent of air bags. In case they blow I guess in theory a 9 and 3 hold would help prevent you from punching yourself in the face if you are using a 10 and 2 by spreading your arms out instead of driving them back. Just a SWAG.

bob

[HeroHog]

I was also amused by the fact that I always figured that the ten o'clock and two o'clock rule was pretty stupic and arbitrary, and I now hear that the Highway Patrol is recommending nine and three.  Har-har!

But, my wheel is designed for 8 & 4 (or 10 & 2)!

[gunsmith]

I can understand being annoyed  with some dreg of society going slow in the fast lane.
Gol dang it tho, if someone is slow in the slow lane they might be slow for a good reason.
A really cool female highway patrol officer assured me that it is almost always a female insisting on going slow in the fast lane .
Every youtube video of a dude doing the slow   (in fast lane thing) shows some guy with obvious mental problems .
My theory is when a guy is going slow in the fast lane, he is angry that he isn't a female and determined to behave like one - or he has little to no testosterone and consequently no control of his feminine emotions ...

One of the survivors of the wildfire used his Harley to get around the poor confused cagers who died rather than violating traffic laws, he rode on the sidewalks ( which had no people anyway )

Some of the pictures reminded me the Walking Dead early episodes with piles of dead bodies in cars going one way with a completely empty lane right next to them going the other way.

I live in an area known for bad wildfires too, I am going to start planning and practicing getting out in a hurry.

The house around the corner burned down a few days ago , killing three neighbor dogs

[Hawkmoon]

I think that came about with the advent of air bags. In case they blow I guess in theory a 9 and 3 hold would help prevent you from punching yourself in the face if you are using a 10 and 2 by spreading your arms out instead of driving them back. Just a SWAG.

Correct.

[WLJ]

The lawyers are already busy going after the power companies

A Hawaiian couple is suing four power companies, accusing them of ignoring weather warnings amid the historic Maui wildfires that have killed at least 93 people.

The main plaintiffs, Monica and Rede Eder, own a house in historic town of Lahaina, which was decimated by the wildfire. Their suit is "on behalf of a class and subclasses of all persons similarly situated."

The suit targets Hawaiian Electric Industries, which is the parent company of HECO, MECO, and HELCO.

The lawsuit accuses the power companies of ignoring weather warnings and keeping their power lines energized despite the dangerous conditions. The plaintiffs claimed that the companies "inexcusably kept their power lines energized during forecasted high fire danger conditions."

Hawaiian couple sues power companies over Lahaina destruction amid historic Maui wildfires
https://www.foxnews.com/us/hawaiian-couple-sues-power-companies-lahaina-destruction-historic-maui-wildfires