Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on January 16, 2017, 12:42:06 AM
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I was going to update this thread (http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=52371.0), but decided to give it a fresh start. The Chinese cutlery scene seems to be really taking off, but still making a really good product for a low price. Anyone else buying in?
Ganzo are the ones I have experience with. They've been using 440C steel, and impressing a lot of YouTube knife geeks with the quality, fit, finish, and performance of the knives (given the price range). Most of them seem to have G10 handle scales, but they've come out with some aluminum and carbon fiber models now. For most models, they copy the Axis lock, but they've got a few frame-locks, too. And automatics. Ganzo knives have tended to be a tad heavy, which is partly because other makers skeletonize the liners, and Ganzo usually skips that step.
Enlan, and Sanrenmu are some other brands in the < $30 category, and Real Steel knives are a little pricier. Kizer is a Chinese brand that sells knives in the >$200 range, and some people think they're a real bargain. Not really my thing, though.
I was suckered into all of this by dasmi (or whatever he now calls himself), who wickedly sold me a Ganzo 727. It is a good knife, although the lock was very stiff (which is common for Ganzos). I had to adjust the springs. But it was too small, and the action wasn't quite smooth enough, and it has an ugly orange handle, so I just had to go to Amazon, and get this thing:
https://www.amazon.com/Ganzo-G740-GR-Green-Folding-Handle/dp/B01AJNSRJS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484540475&sr=8-1&keywords=ganzo+g740
It's the right size, right color, and this one's lock was not as stiff as other Ganzos. This model also has some nice, big holes drilled out of the liners. I'm quite happy with it. The G10 could be a little more grippy, but...
These guys look pretty nice.
http://www.gearbest.com/pocket-knives-and-folding-knives/pp_603461.html
http://www.gearbest.com/pocket-knives-and-folding-knives/pp_458188.html?wid=21
There are gobs of videos on Chinese knives. These folks do a bunch of them:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1pFO7PUNjrgcUcrMF4p1zg
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I love the blade shape of that Ganzo 7522 linked on GearBest.
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I'm as quick as anyone to condemn Chinese made cheap junk but the problem isn't that China can't make decent stuff, the problem is the people spec'ing it out spec out cheap crap for the lowest possible cost to produce. I've bought several photography related items in the last year or so and have been more than happy with fit, finish and overall quality. If the company specs it out to a high quality and maintains high levels of QC the Chinese can produce some decent stuff.
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as long as China is guilty of intellectual property theft, Patent and copywright abuse, uses substandard and unsafe raw materials for manufacture, ignores International agreements and abuses their workers, I won't be buying any knives made in China. Yeah, I know that it is difficult to find non Chinese manufactured items, but they are out there, particularly when it comes to knives.
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as long as China is guilty of intellectual property theft, Patent and copywright abuse, uses substandard and unsafe raw materials for manufacture, ignores International agreements and abuses their workers, I won't be buying any knives made in China. Yeah, I know that it is difficult to find non Chinese manufactured items, but they are out there, particularly when it comes to knives.
Copywright?
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Mannlicher's statements are similar to what you read on BladeForums, when anybody mentions Ganzo, Enlan or other Chinese manufacturers. If you are not carrying a Benchmade, Sebenza or Spyderco (even those manufactured in China), then you ain't crap. Similar to what I see on some of the photography forums when someone praises a lens that is not a Canon L model: 'the fact that I paid $2000 for this lens means it is the best, and anyone who paid $ 500 for another brand lens of equal or better quality is just an idiot'.
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Lately, I have seen Gerber and other knives for really cheap prices in a couple different spots. As much or cheaper than the chinese knives on Amazon (same manufacturer?). I just want to get cheap utility pocket knives to carry around. I will bend the clips and damage the blades. I don't want carry a nice one.
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I agree with the no china policy, but you don't need to spend that much. I carry a Buck Vantage Pro:
https://www.amazon.com/Buck-Knives-Vantage-Folding-Knife/dp/B00I0MAH6W
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Mannlicher's statements are similar to what you read on BladeForums, when anybody mentions Ganzo, Enlan or other Chinese manufacturers. If you are not carrying a Benchmade, Sebenza or Spyderco (even those manufactured in China), then you ain't crap. Similar to what I see on some of the photography forums when someone praises a lens that is not a Canon L model: 'the fact that I paid $2000 for this lens means it is the best, and anyone who paid $ 500 for another brand lens of equal or better quality is just an idiot'.
I think Mannlicher gave much more substantial reasons for his point of view than that. I can't fault someone for wanting to avoid Chinese goods.
Lately, I have seen Gerber and other knives for really cheap prices in a couple different spots. As much or cheaper than the chinese knives on Amazon (same manufacturer?).
With Gerber, CRKT, Buck, Sog, etc, I have a hard time finding a knife with the features I like in my price range. Or if I do find it, it's not a steel I put much stock in, or they just don't publish what steel they're using.
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Similar to what I see on some of the photography forums when someone praises a lens that is not a Canon L model: 'the fact that I paid $2000 for this lens means it is the best, and anyone who paid $ 500 for another brand lens of equal or better quality is just an idiot'.
And us Sony shooters with 20+ year old excellent quality Minolta glass found at pawn shops and garage sales for next to nothing would sit back and laugh at all of them. Seriously; I got a 35mm f/1.8 prime in a bag with the classic 60-120 f/2.8 for $10. Neither I nor the seller knew the prime was tucked in the bottom of the bag when I got it. He just knew his Minolta broke and the lenses weren't doing him any good.
Did end up having to fix the iris in that one after a couple weeks of use, but then it went on to work like a champ for a couple more years before I sold the rig during the divorce.
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There are enough photography threads. You don't have to bring your bizzare, soul-stealing hobby into this. :P
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There are enough photography threads. You don't have to bring your bizzare, soul-stealing hobby into this.
Don't make me induce reloading drift too.
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Let me ask this, in all seriousness. I've owned low end Benchmade, Spyderco, and s so me other solid brands. I've also owner some no-name knives that have served me fine. I've never paid more than $100 for a knife, and the more expensive knives I tended to baby more than the cheap ones. Broken a few cheeap knives along the way.
Are the high end knives worth $200+? Other than a goon name and a great tacticool appearance, what can a Zero Toleance knife do for me that my Rat-1 can't?
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Are the high end knives worth $200+? Other than a goon name and a great tacticool appearance, what can a Zero Toleance knife do for me that my Rat-1 can't?
In short, no.
There are exemptions and they are easy to gauge.
If diver, EMT, rigger, mountain climber, etc where you or a third party WILL likely die in seconds if your knife breaks or is lost, then yes.
Being out in the woods for longer than a couple months or with zero chance of resupply? Yes.
Wealthy enough that difference between $200 and $20 are statistically unmeaningful amounts. Yes.
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Being out in the woods for longer than a couple months or with zero chance of resupply? Yes.
Rather have 10 $20 Moras than any one $200 knife for that situation. Plus I'll have 8 of them to trade if I do run into someone with stuff I want. (Assuming my usual pattern of one rough stuff knife that gets touched up on a random rock as needed and one fine work knife that gets babied and carefully sharpened.)
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I now have 2 Ganzos- the bench made knockoff and their switchblade model. Of the two, the switchblade is more useful, if only because you can carry it without feeling like there is a brick in your pocket :laugh:
I paid about $25 for the switchblade, it took 2 months to deliver, but it's really well made, and I'm very happy with it.
I also recently got a cobratec OTF which is an Asian knockoff of the Microtec ultratech knife. I'd say, don't bother- knife steel is so cheap that I can't put a useful edge on it, but it did cure me of the lust for an OTF knife for a fraction of the price of a benchmade or microtec OTF.
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In short, no.
There are exemptions and they are easy to gauge.
If diver, EMT, rigger, mountain climber, etc where you or a third party WILL likely die in seconds if your knife breaks or is lost, then yes.
Being out in the woods for longer than a couple months or with zero chance of resupply? Yes.
Wealthy enough that difference between $200 and $20 are statistically unmeaningful amounts. Yes.
If I was I n one of those kind of jobs, I'd consider my knife to be essential equipment, and carry more than one for sure.
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I'm a one-knife man. I think I have others, but I can't be bothered to rotate them out or match them to my clothes or whatever these people with dozens of knives presumably do. Any knife except my EDC just sits in a drawer. I carry an early generation Endura for the last ten years or so. It doesn't matter at this point how much it cost originally. I won't need another knife until I break or lose my Endura or sharpen it down too much. I've thought about switching back to something lighter like a Native, though.
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I mostly use my pocket knife to open boxes, cut anti-theft packaging, backup screw driver, and occasional something else. I don't need an expensive knife for that. I have a few knives at home that are better, but I don't carry them regularly. I bend clips or break the safety locks more often than I actually dull or chip a blade.
If I had a more important use for a knife, I would probably have a different opinion.
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Tips to keep from breaking knife clips:
1. Remove clip
2. Keep knife down inside pocket or sheath, where it belongs.
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Mannlicher's statements are similar to what you read on BladeForums, when anybody mentions Ganzo, Enlan or other Chinese manufacturers. If you are not carrying a Benchmade, Sebenza or Spyderco (even those manufactured in China), then you ain't crap. Similar to what I see on some of the photography forums when someone praises a lens that is not a Canon L model: 'the fact that I paid $2000 for this lens means it is the best, and anyone who paid $ 500 for another brand lens of equal or better quality is just an idiot'.
but you miss the point. Copyright protection, intellectual property rights, stealing designs, is not limited to knives when it comes to the Chinese. They are a rogue nation, and operate outside the constraints other countries work within. Go ahead though, and feed the dragon.
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^^^Maybe, but your comments on intellectual property, stealing designs, etc. are what commonly come up on BladeForums in reference to Ganzo and some other manufacturers. Speaking as someone whose intellectual property is stolen or copied all the time (my lectures and other material), I find it hard to get too worked up over allegations of IP theft when the IP holder does not take action to protect the IP. I don't take action because it is not cost-effective for me to do so.
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Rather have 10 $20 Moras than any one $200 knife for that situation.
I love my $20 Moras. There is neither any part of my livelihood, nor anywhere I venture, where an expensive knife is necessary. I'm the same way with tactical flashlights. It's not that I can't afford pricier ones, it's that I am cursed by the fact that the more I pay for small items, the faster I will lose them.
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I love my $20 Moras. There is neither any part of my livelihood, nor anywhere I venture, where an expensive knife is necessary. I'm the same way with tactical flashlights. It's not that I can't afford pricier ones, it's that I am cursed by the fact that the more I pay for small items, the faster I will lose them.
Me, too. Buy expensive things like knives and flashlights, lose or break them.
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My only experience with Chinese knives is a set of cheap "Sabatier" knockoffs that I got as an Amazon filler years ago.
They're stamped, not forged.
I figured I'd use them for awhile and then toss them out when they crapped out.
I paid the princely sum of $10 for a block, 6 steak knives, a paring knive, an 8" chef's knife, 6" and 8" utility/slicers, a bread knife, utility scissors, and a steel.
The steel was absolute garbage and went in the garbage. The scissors aren't great.
But the knives, shockingly enough?
For what they are they are damned good. They can be sharpened to a VERY keen edge, and once they have the edge, it only requires a little work with my butcher's steel before and after use.
I've not sharpened the paring knife in over 4 years, and I use it constantly. It's still sharp enough to take the hair off the back of my arm.
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I'm the same way with tactical flashlights. It's not that I can't afford pricier ones, it's that I am cursed by the fact that the more I pay for small items, the faster I will lose them.
My Fenix LD20 lasted 7 years, and saved me a ton of money on batteries, while providing more light than anything in the 2AA size at the time I bought it, and would still be on par with most current lights in its ($75) price range. Lights are similar to knives in that there is some garbage in every pricing tier, but if you know which brands are good, you can get what you pay for and then some.
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I have the Ganzo G7211 switchblade and it's become my favorite.
I hope they come out with an OTF someday to the same quality.
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I'm tempted by that Ganzo as it doesn't seem to be a blatant rip-off of anything I'm familiar with, but I don't need yet another knife.
Currently, my "daily rotation" folders include:
Small Sebenza
Canal Street Cuttlery Cannitler
Schrade Tennessee River Trapper (gift to my grandfather in early 2000s and recovered when he passed away in 2014).
Chris
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The imported knives I have interest in are the ones sold under the "big player" brand names...Spyderco, Kershaw, etc. I figure if the quality is good enough for them to put their name on, it's good enough to go with me on a Scout campout...
That said, I'm looking at the Spyderco Persistence or Tenacious. Got an Amazon gift card burning a hole in my wallet...
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I have the Ganzo G7211 switchblade and it's become my favorite.
I hope they come out with an OTF someday to the same quality.
I just picked up a Kershaw Launch6 from Fletcher's today because impulse.
Really nice knife, but not 4x the price better than the Ganzo... maybe $20 better due to the steel, though the Ganzo is plenty good enough.
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I've fondled a couple of the Kershaw Launch knives. While I really want to like them because of the price point, features, and "Made in 'Merica", they kind of leave me cold. Of the ones I've fondled, the blade lockup was a touch loose and the action was slower than I'd like. I'm tempted to try the Ganzo because of the price point, though i don't need another knife...
Chris
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I have the Ganzo G7211 switchblade and it's become my favorite.
I hope they come out with an OTF someday to the same quality.
Weirdly, PA bans any knife that uses springs. Not that it's truly enforced and many police don't even know that, but technically letter of the law... So, you can buy a SAW, put a suppressor on it and somehow mount a grenade launcher and bayonet on it. Then open carry or conceal carry it (admittedly with a shall issue $15 LTCF). All kosher. 3 inch gravity knife or switchblade? Nope.
What I normally do is get a locking folder, loosen it enough that I can snap it open one handed via wrist flick. Works basically just as well and generally more sturdy than a switchblade, but still kinda annoying.
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I've fondled a couple of the Kershaw Launch knives. While I really want to like them because of the price point, features, and "Made in 'Merica", they kind of leave me cold. Of the ones I've fondled, the blade lockup was a touch loose and the action was slower than I'd like. I'm tempted to try the Ganzo because of the price point, though i don't need another knife...
Chris
They had a SOG model which I liked better, just not $50 more better :laugh:
The button is a bit gritty on the kershaw, the button on the ganzo is smooth, and it does snap open faster than the kershaw.
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The problem I've been running into with knives lately is that I wish to carry on the weak side, but I still want to be able to open the knife quickly, one-handed. The knives I've been trying up until now, I've had trouble with opening them with my weak hand. The Ganzo 740, after a little bit of break in, opens pretty well.
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The problem I've been running into with knives lately is that I wish to carry on the weak side, but I still want to be able to open the knife quickly, one-handed. The knives I've been trying up until now, I've had trouble with opening them with my weak hand. The Ganzo 740, after a little bit of break in, opens pretty well.
I might order a 729 next for that reaso- axis lock and a spyderco hole. yes, I'll feel a bit dirty buying it. =|
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The problem I've been running into with knives lately is that I wish to carry on the weak side, but I still want to be able to open the knife quickly, one-handed. The knives I've been trying up until now, I've had trouble with opening them with my weak hand. The Ganzo 740, after a little bit of break in, opens pretty well.
My CRKT Mini My Tighe opens with a flick of the assist pretty easily.
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My CRKT Mini My Tighe opens with a flick of the assist pretty easily.
I bought an assisted-open for just that reason, but it did not work out. I may eventually go to an automatic.