Author Topic: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?  (Read 5907 times)

digitalandanalog

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Seriously.

Did they take any meaningful hit or did our anger amount to nothing?

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 09:15:29 PM »
who are they and why are we angry?
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AJ Dual

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 09:18:36 PM »
Is this the one where the president/majority owner donated to Obama?
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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 09:20:36 PM »
I think they're the ones with the Lou Horiuchi endorsement.

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 09:31:49 PM »
Is this the one where the president/majority owner donated to Obama?

That would be Dan Cooper of Cooper Rifles.

I think they're the ones with the Lou Horiuchi endorsement.

That would be H.S. Precision.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 09:35:10 PM by Avenger29 »
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crt360

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 09:33:56 PM »
I think they're the ones with the Lou Horiuchi endorsement.

That sounds right.

I had already forgotten about it.  I thought maybe they were wearing Levi's and using Leathermen.
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digitalandanalog

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 09:49:06 PM »
So, no Zumboing for H.S.P.

Shame. A Real Shame.

Are you guys being facetious?

Bogie

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2009, 10:35:00 PM »
Hey, may take a while, and their individual sales may suffer, but only if people refuse to buy brands of rifles which are stocked by their stuff, well...
 
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AJ Dual

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2009, 10:48:16 PM »
That would be Dan Cooper of Cooper Rifles.

That would be H.S. Precision.



Thanks. Now I remember.

Unfortunately, or not, H.S. is just not the type of product that's likely to be in my purchase plans where I'd be able to look for an alternative.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 01:26:20 AM »
My Remington 700 PSS has an H.S. Precision stock.

I like the stock, but loathe the fact they chose to use Lon Horiuchi as an official endorser of their products.

The gun's already in my safe, but I'd have to say any additional precision rifle stocks I want to buy would have to come from McMillan.

 
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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2009, 02:34:17 AM »
I too wish they were "zumboed" but at leat we zumboed Zumbo.

Thank you for reminding me though, at the time I sent them an email saying I wouldn't buy any products, not that I'm buying anything but food lately. :mad:
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2009, 04:12:21 AM »
Two-sentence synopsis on "Zumbo?" ???
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Nitrogen

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 05:00:33 AM »
Two-sentence synopsis on "Zumbo?" ???

I can do it in a few more sentences.
"Hi, I'm Jim Zumbo from Outdoor life, and I don't think anyone should have an AR-15 or other millitary weapon for hunting."
"Hi, I represent a couple million gun owners and I think you're wrong and we'll make you eat those words by writing your magazine."
"Hi, I'm Jim Zumbo, formerly of Outdoor Life, and I was wrong about the AR-15."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zumbo
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Gewehr98

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 05:02:26 AM »
Two sentences, eh?

Sigh. Why are they always so demanding? Here goes:

1. Longtime Outdoor Life editor Jim Zumbo on or about 16 Feb 2007 denounced AR-15s and AKs as terrorist weapons unsuitable for hunting. 

2. He proceeded to lose his posterior and any chances of future gunwriting employment due to the backlash among the gun-owning community for his fatal episode of foot-in-mouth disease.

(The venison in the G-98 freezer didn't know it was hit by an AK round, truthfully...)

More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zumbo
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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2009, 05:26:45 AM »
what was so great about "zumbo" phenom was it was fast, afaik it happened really quick.
He inserted foot in mouth on thursday or friday and by mon or tue he was fired, it seemed like spontaneous combustion, every gun site was up in arms, it caught the "establishment" gun groups by surprise.
There are a lot more black rifle fans than 1994 and a lot more folks on the net and paying attention...to bad we couldn't get that liberal in office and instead got the liberal
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2009, 10:45:14 AM »
The wiki entry for the Zumbo has a link to their entry on Cooper firearms.  I didn't know about that one.  Looks like Mr. Cooper got Zumbo'ed pretty neatly, himself.  Ouch. 
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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2009, 10:46:07 AM »
Zumbo is back on the Outdoor Channel. Wednesday nights I think.

So much for zumboing. The fudds don't care at all and the sponsors only care as long as the viewers do which is about as long as their noses.

Gun Owners aren't any different from MS America. Short term oriented.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2009, 11:52:30 AM »
Zumbo is back on the Outdoor Channel. Wednesday nights I think.

So much for zumboing. The fudds don't care at all and the sponsors only care as long as the viewers do which is about as long as their noses.

Gun Owners aren't any different from MS America. Short term oriented.

Destroying Zumbo the man, was not the point. It was his position and what he said that needed to be shut down. Even if it's all a sham, and in his heart he hates EBR's even more than ever now, he'll never be a mouthpiece for pro-AWB Fudds again. He publicly repudiated anti's who used his statements against us, and went on a big EBR hunt with Nugent as part of his rehabilitation. I don't care what's in his heart, I care what he says and does.

If anything, it's even better if it's just lip-service, because now Zumbo is our puppet for the rest of his career.  =D

And even more so, the anti's who are gung-ho over the "divide and conquer" strategy of gun control, splitting hunters from 2A purists, and other kinds of less-PC sport shooters saw just how poorly that strategy works within the gun community and the industry. They sat up and took notice of the Zumbo affair just as much as the gun/hunting industry did.

They tried to pin it on the "Big Evil NRA" but they couldn't. They saw just how much we care, and how organized we are even without the NRA or any other central org, just bloggers and bulletin boards like this one. And that terrfied the antis. We are no less fired up than we were in '94 and we are more networked than ever before.

That's the real point of the whole Zumbo affair.
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taurusowner

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2009, 12:00:17 PM »
I don't really care about H.S. Precision.  Zumbo was one man who clearly said the wrong thing in print, and there is no way to back out of it or explain it.  The Ruby ridge affair has about 10 million unanswered questions, that will remain unanswered.  To be completely honest to all of you, I just don't buy the whole "the ATF layed siege and murdered an innocent family" story.  Sure they did some wrong things and some innocent people died.  But innocent police officers died too, and they sure weren't shot by other officers.  There was plenty of nefarious bull#### going on from both sides during that event.  So I'm not really prepared to hate a company or a man based of something that so little  is known about.  Sure it's a bad PR move for the company, and I'll likely not buy their products.  But I wasn't going to anyways.  But not buying from them, and hating them are 2 different things.  Hating them is something I'm not prepared to do based off such scarce real information.

jackdanson

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2009, 12:10:46 PM »
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But innocent police officers died too, and they sure weren't shot by other officers.

Were said officers unarmed and holding a baby?

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2009, 12:32:01 PM »
I wouldn't say gun owners are all that organized.  We just happen to pull in the same direction occasionally and it shocks some people into realizing just how many of us there are. 
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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2009, 12:34:17 PM »
I'm not getting into this argument.  We don't really know all that happened, and that includes you.  You can assume all you want, and you can listen to only the information that backs up your theory.  That's fine.  But I'm going to acknowledge the truth that we really don't know.  And because of that, I'm not going to fall into an emotional rage over anything that is connected to the incident.  Say what you want, do what you want.  I've said what I think and that's that for me.

AJ Dual

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2009, 01:29:58 PM »
I'm not getting into this argument.  We don't really know all that happened, and that includes you.  You can assume all you want, and you can listen to only the information that backs up your theory.  That's fine.  But I'm going to acknowledge the truth that we really don't know.  And because of that, I'm not going to fall into an emotional rage over anything that is connected to the incident.  Say what you want, do what you want.  I've said what I think and that's that for me.

I agree with that "we really don't know". I suspect on a gut-level that as in most things, the "truth is somewhere in the middle".

It seems to me it was mostly just a "comedy (tragedy) of errors" on both sides. In a purely pragmatic sense, and not a hyper-constitutional one, did the Weavers do some stupid stuff that got them the unwanted attention from the government? Absolutely.

Did the agents act in an over-zealous manner? Absolutely.

However, there was also adrenaline and fear motivating both sides as well. The agents may well have been terrified a wave of AK-wielding neo-nazi sympathizers and been trigger-happy as a result. Being afraid of not going home at the end of the day certainly would make me feel that way.

After the dog was shot by a suppressed weapon, and my kids were fired on, and a woman holding a baby was shot in broad daylight, add to it that my somewhat warped personal convictions making me afraid surrender might just mean execution right then and there, does not seem unreasonable either.

Any thinking person should seriously doubt that Lon Horiuchi willfully shot Vicki Weaver and endangered the infant she was holding out of cold blood. He either panicked, was riding the trigger while observing through his scope, or had a "fog of war" malfunction in his perceptions of what he was seeing.

However, whatever it was, and after playing devil's advocate for all sides at Ruby Ridge, Lon screwed up. Even if 99.9% of the population would screw up, or worse, under the same stress that's not the point. When you're one of those tip of the spear high-speed/low drag types, you're not supposed to screw up. That is what those types get paid for, (meager as it may be) and what they get the titles and responsibilities they hold for.

So even if you leave the wider issues of rights, persecution, evil, whatever out of it, IMO H.S. still screwed up too. You don't choose the man who made the most infamous domestic law enforcement sniper shot in American history as a reference.  ;/

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2009, 03:30:53 PM »
Were said officers unarmed and holding a baby?


was the lady with the baby unarmed?  that would have been unusual
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Gewehr98

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Re: Has H.S. Precision suffered after the venomous rage of gun owners?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2009, 04:18:22 PM »
Vicki Weaver was, in fact, unarmed, save for the deadly assault baby she was carrying as Lon Horiuchi put a bullet into her head.
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