Author Topic: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight  (Read 13896 times)

Ben

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Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« on: December 02, 2011, 11:11:33 AM »
Sure, hitting below the belt isn't fair, but it's also not worthy of sex offender status.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/02/boy-7-accused-sexual-harassment-after-school-fight/?test=latestnews
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wmenorr67

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2011, 11:12:20 AM »
Just read that.  I agree that the other kid should be charged with attempted murder if the story holds up.
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brimic

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 11:21:41 AM »
Quote
Sure, hitting below the belt isn't fair, but it's also not worthy of sex offender status.


I think if someone chokes you, any given response is 'fair.'
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Nightfall

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2011, 11:22:27 AM »
Sure, hitting below the belt isn't fair, but it's also not worthy of sex offender status.

If somebody, at any age, is cutting off the supply of air and blood to my brain while stealing my stuff, turning their family jewels into a sack of mush sounds fair to me. Save the fair fighting for boxing.
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Ben

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2011, 11:23:29 AM »
I think if someone chokes you, any given response is 'fair.'

This is true. I was referring to an average schoolyard fight, which this apparently wasn't. If you're fighting for your life, there's no such thing as "fair".
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Seenterman

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2011, 11:46:35 AM »
Doesn't anyone remember the good ol' days where a little school bus dust up would have resulted in you missing recess for a few days? Now they go strait for the felony charge. Who are these adults that do this crap? Had then never been in a fight at school? Reminds me of the story of the 6 year old boy getting hit with felony charges for playing doctor with a local politicians daughter.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/23/parents-sue-da-for-charging-their-6-year


brimic

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2011, 12:15:15 PM »
We hhave to press felony charges because the most prescious thing about little Joe Bully is his feelings, and it would be a crime to challenge him and hurt those feelings. 

Nothing like producing a generation of good little followers and passive victims.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I never quite get the bully mentality, its rare that the bully is the strongest or most physically dominant person in a group.

My son gets picked on ocasionally by one of the two bullies in his class. Weirdly, my son would come home and say "xxx was punching me and I told the teacher but she wouldn't do anything about it."
I would say "yeah, umm xxx can't even do a pushup or run from one end of the playground to the other without getting tired. What place did you get in when your class raced a mile? 2nd right? How many hundred pushups can you do in a row? Do what you think you need to do to avoid being punched in the future, but give him a warning first."
The next day my son reports that xxx tried twisting his arm, my son told him to stop, xxx didn't, so xxx ended up on the ground crying after he got a kick in the shin. The teacher was there but apparantly didn't see it happen. :police:
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 12:55:51 PM »
What we have here is what should have been a life lesson.  Boy one learns you cant be a little bully without consequences (shot to the nuts). Boy 2 learns a man defends his life, liberty and property at all costs.
Instead, the nanny state prevails.

We hhave to press felony charges because the most prescious thing about little Joe Bully is his feelings, and it would be a crime to challenge him and hurt those feelings. 

Nothing like producing a generation of good little followers and passive victims.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I never quite get the bully mentality, its rare that the bully is the strongest or most physically dominant person in a group.

My son gets picked on ocasionally by one of the two bullies in his class. Weirdly, my son would come home and say "xxx was punching me and I told the teacher but she wouldn't do anything about it."
I would say "yeah, umm xxx can't even do a pushup or run from one end of the playground to the other without getting tired. What place did you get in when your class raced a mile? 2nd right? How many hundred pushups can you do in a row? Do what you think you need to do to avoid being punched in the future, but give him a warning first."
The next day my son reports that xxx tried twisting his arm, my son told him to stop, xxx didn't, so xxx ended up on the ground crying after he got a kick in the shin. The teacher was there but apparantly didn't see it happen. :police:

I've been working on both my kids with bullies.  Luckily my daughter hasn't been a target yet, she's the teeniest thing.  My son is the flip side of the coin, oldest in his class and probably the tallest in his grade.  He's gotten the occasional verbal bullying, but nothing physical.  I've told them both repeatedly to warn the kid once and call out to the teacher. If nothing happens, hit back. Hard.
I swear to deity if the school sends them home for it, I'm taking them out for ice cream.
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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 01:25:15 PM »
The school and the bullies are secretly on the same team.  Once you understand that, it all makes sense.
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brimic

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2011, 01:56:42 PM »
Quote
I've been working on both my kids with bullies.  Luckily my daughter hasn't been a target yet, she's the teeniest thing.

Yes, this seems to come up between my son and I once a month, at the minimum. He's very meek and mild personality-wise, but incredibly fit and strong for his 9 years. I worry more about my daughter being the bully than the other way around. No problems yet, but she has a very aggressive/dominat personality, she might be a lot harder to deal with in the coming years than my son.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2011, 02:09:53 PM »
The school and the bullies are secretly on the same team.  Once you understand that, it all makes sense.

Once I learned this, I learned how to really fight back against the bullies. As in don't just defend yourself, go on the offensive. Or not resist, take the punishment they handed out anyway just for daring to be a victim, and get revenge later.

If you are going to be suspended and possibly arrested anyway, no reason not to do as much damage as possible.

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agricola

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2011, 03:17:18 PM »
You lot dont have a doli incapax presumption?
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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2011, 03:24:30 PM »
My dad was a school principal, back in the good old days when paddles were still in every classroom, homework was a daily thing, teachers were generally worth respect for their knowledge of their subject, and kids were failed without regards for their self-esteem...

Anyways, my dad told me early on that the playground justice system was usually far more effective that his intervention.  If Billy the Bully gets taken to the office and gets paddled, or some other punishment, he's going back to the playground looking for payback, and things will get worse.  If Billy the Bully gets dropped to his knees by little Sally when she pulls her ponytail one last time, only then to learn that her after-school classes aren't ballet but karate, and she knocks the wind out of him with one quick, short punch, then Billy will no longer torment Sally.  Word will spread quickly, and soon Billy the Bully is out of business.

Oh, and on doli incapax, in Ohio at least, that generally applies in civil matters, but not necessarily in criminal/delinquent matters.  That is usually left to the prosecutor.  When I was a prosecutor, we generally declined charges on 10 and under, but occassionally referred concerning cases to a court diversion program for services or counseling without charges.
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brimic

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2011, 03:29:45 PM »
Quote
You lot dont have a doli incapax presumption?
Had to look that one up...
Yes, but 'Zero Tolerance' trumps everything.
Kids can be severely punished for minor infractions.
Public schools are mini police states.
One of the many reasons why I send my kids to a private school.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Jamie B

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2011, 06:17:10 PM »
What we have here is what should have been a life lesson.  Boy one learns you cant be a little bully without consequences (shot to the nuts). Boy 2 learns a man defends his life, liberty and property at all costs.
Instead, the nanny state prevails.

I've been working on both my kids with bullies.  Luckily my daughter hasn't been a target yet, she's the teeniest thing.  My son is the flip side of the coin, oldest in his class and probably the tallest in his grade.  He's gotten the occasional verbal bullying, but nothing physical.  I've told them both repeatedly to warn the kid once and call out to the teacher. If nothing happens, hit back. Hard.
I swear to deity if the school sends them home for it, I'm taking them out for ice cream.
My kids have simple instructions:
If anyone puts their hands on them, they respond physically, stopping only when the offender is on the ground.

The school principal is quite aware of my instructions - he is a milquetoast king of guy, so no problems.
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HankB

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2011, 06:36:00 PM »
I went to Catholic school, and in 4th grade my teacher was a mentally ill nun.

One day another kid was hitting me in class, and the nun simply watched - I SAW her watching - and she did nothing.

Until I turned around and hit the kid back.

At that point she went nuts, screaming at me and telling me to write "I will not fight in class" 1000 times by the next day. I asked her "Well, what about him? He was hitting me first!"

She upped the punishment to 2000 times and told me I should have turned the other cheek.

I refused. Next day, she calls on me to turn it in, and I told her I refuse to be punished for defending myself, whereupon she told me to report to the prinicpal's office . . . and then she told me what to say. (I was bad, I was no good, etc.) I said "No, I won't lie like that, that's a sin. (Catholic school, remember? They were big on sin back then.) I'm going to say to the principal that YOU want ME to be used as a punching bag in YOUR classroom - then YOU will have to explain YOURself.

She yelled at me some more, but ended up with something along the lines of "Shut up and sit down."

Oh, and as for the story in the OP . . . good for the kid; unless you're in some sport like a sanctioned boxing match, there's no such thing as a "fair" fight.
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Jamie B

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2011, 06:48:21 PM »
Sorry to hear that HankB - I did my first 6 years in Catholic school with no issues.

Both of my kids are in Catholic school, but no nuns these days.
The bullying program they did was an outsider, and nothing has been done since then.
No major issues, but the principal is spineless.
I told him about my instructions to the kids indicated above.
I advised him that I was "raising good Catholic kids, but not pacifists", and they would defend themselves.
No problems yet.
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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2011, 07:31:18 PM »
>I swear to deity if the school sends them home for it, I'm taking them out for ice cream.<

Kid in the local school had a brain tumor. Class bully thought it would be funny to hit him in the head. A friend's son saw it happen, and responded...

To put it in perspective: the friend's son spars with adult MMA fighters. At 13.

Bully was put down HARD. Principal called my friend to come pick up his son, and explained what happened...

Friend: "I'm not gonna punish him!"

Principal: "Not asking you to. Just take him home so he can calm down"
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grampster

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2011, 08:03:51 PM »
Every time I see this bully stuff, I just shake my head.  Here in Michigan the legislature even passed and the governor will or has signed, a law about bullying.  What a nation of lazy, passive, envy filled, slothful wimps we have become. (As a side bar, the OWS phenomenon is a glaring example of that.)
 
Bullies are stopped easily by defending yourself.  I have done myself when I was a kid.  There is a firearm analogy.  In virtually every state there are No Retreat laws and Castle Doctrines.  You may defend one's self with a firearm (deadly force) If your life is in danger.  You may defend yourself till the danger stops.  Same with bullies on a lesser level of course.  You defend yourself to stop the assault.  That is exactly how I'd handle it and did handle it with my sons and myself.  After awhile the bully is not your problem anymore.  It's time that people understand that and stop trying to stop bullies by using methodology that is not only ineffective but a down right wrong message to send.  Humans are NOT passive critters.  Passive critters are sheep not human.

Men have balls for two reasons:  Procreation and a target for when a male becomes overly aggressive.
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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2011, 08:36:37 PM »
>I swear to deity if the school sends them home for it, I'm taking them out for ice cream.<

Kid in the local school had a brain tumor. Class bully thought it would be funny to hit him in the head. A friend's son saw it happen, and responded...

To put it in perspective: the friend's son spars with adult MMA fighters. At 13.

Bully was put down HARD. Principal called my friend to come pick up his son, and explained what happened...

Friend: "I'm not gonna punish him!"

Principal: "Not asking you to. Just take him home so he can calm down"

I can only hope stupid hurt really, really bad.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2011, 08:41:04 PM »
Every time I see this bully stuff, I just shake my head.  Here in Michigan the legislature even passed and the governor will or has signed, a law about bullying.  What a nation of lazy, passive, envy filled, slothful wimps we have become. (As a side bar, the OWS phenomenon is a glaring example of that.)
 
Bullies are stopped easily by defending yourself.  I have done myself when I was a kid.  There is a firearm analogy.  In virtually every state there are No Retreat laws and Castle Doctrines.  You may defend one's self with a firearm (deadly force) If your life is in danger.  You may defend yourself till the danger stops.  Same with bullies on a lesser level of course.  You defend yourself to stop the assault.  That is exactly how I'd handle it and did handle it with my sons and myself.  After awhile the bully is not your problem anymore.  It's time that people understand that and stop trying to stop bullies by using methodology that is not only ineffective but a down right wrong message to send.  Humans are NOT passive critters.  Passive critters are sheep not human.

Men have balls for two reasons:  Procreation and a target for when a male becomes overly aggressive.

Not everybody is capable of defending themselves in a physical manner, especially if they are a lone victim of a group.

On a higher level, people carry firearms to defend themselves from criminals, but we also arrest criminals if they're caught.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2011, 11:19:58 PM »
My son had been the victim of bullies in middle school and the school would do nothing about it until my son made comments about defending himself.  They responded by suspending and then expelling him from the school.  Appeals all the way to the district super did nothing.  He is now in private school and enjoying it.
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Ben

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2011, 11:38:38 PM »
My son had been the victim of bullies in middle school and the school would do nothing about it until my son made comments about defending himself.  They responded by suspending and then expelling him from the school.  Appeals all the way to the district super did nothing.  He is now in private school and enjoying it.

That sucks (not the private school, the first part)! I would expect that kind of response from schools in places like here in CA, but seeing it happen in your neck of the woods really does show how pervasive this "zero tolerance" crap has become. Yet it's never the bullies or the troublemakers that bear the brunt of it.
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Stetson

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2011, 09:31:21 AM »
I was bullied all through school.  I was always the smallest kid, so I was always a target.  I was stuffed in trashcans, lockers, whatever was handy.  Beat on repeatedly.  The last day of my senior year, I found each bully, separately and introduced them to a 2x4.

25 yrs later, I'm friends with one.  2 others are dead from accidents and the last one still won't look me in the eyes. 

Because of my experiences with it, I've been teaching my daughter age appropriate responses to bullying.  You would think it wouldn't be a problem in preschool, at least I didn't.  It is though.  The boys used to push my daughter, they don't anymore.  I got a call from the teachers to come in for a conference.  The principal was there too.  They told me that she punched a boy in the stomach, and we "Just can't have that!"
The conversation went something like this:

Me: "What did the boy do?"
Principal: "It doesn't matt....
Me: "What did the boy do?"
Principal: "The teachers said the boy tried to kiss her."
Me: "And you want her to stand there and take it?"
Principal: "She should tell a teacher"
Me: "Why?  I bet that boy won't try to kiss her again"
Principal: "The other parents could file suit"
Me: "They could, it is an option but it is not the right option.  Want me to talk to them for you?"
Principal: "...."
Me: "Thanks for the call, I'll take care of it"

As I was leaving the teachers came to me and said the boy has a history of that behavior and they talked to the parents already.  The parents of the boy were there too.  We talked about it, they tried to play it off as 'boys will be boys'.  I told them that "T will be T", and that's what I've taught her.  If they want it to stop, then stop their kid from doing it.

Haven't heard anything bad since then.  Guess it all worked out.....

Jamie B

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Re: Boy Accused of Sexual Harassment After Fight
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2011, 09:59:48 AM »
My son had been the victim of bullies in middle school and the school would do nothing about it until my son made comments about defending himself.  They responded by suspending and then expelling him from the school.  Appeals all the way to the district super did nothing.  He is now in private school and enjoying it.
That is complete ignorance and total BS. No wonder society is so *expletive deleted*ed up.
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