Author Topic: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data  (Read 3052 times)

RevDisk

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DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« on: September 30, 2015, 03:17:25 PM »

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/nsa-dea-fbi-snowden-doj-oig/

Long story short, NSA legally or illegally wiretapped US citizens. They then would give the data to the FBI, DEA and other federal agencies. Those agents would lie under oath, also known as committing perjury, about the source of information in court. This is known as parallel construction.

Example?

NSA intercepts Fistful's phone calls, text messages, internet traffic and other useful metadata. All very harmful stuff that laypersons don't understand is bloody important and generally not legally separate from the actual content, but people pretend it is. Fistful's cell for example leaves very detailed, but not extremely granular, locational data. NSA charts Fistful's position over a couple weeks, and then emails it to the DEA. The the DEA stakes out the highway Fistful is likely taking. He's pulled over for speeding, suspected DUI, whatever. An on-hand drug dog finds a bottle of aspirin (or weed or Brady Center propaganda) in his glove box, that he is arrested. Under oath, officers swear it was a random search and not illegally collected data from the NSA. This is to bypass giving information on our domestic surveillance capacity, as well as bypass "fruit of the poisonous tree" legal protections, by lying to prosecutors and judges.

Generally, evidence collected from illegal searches is excluded. Unless you commit perjury, of course. Having been caught, they've been taken to using third parties as proxies. For example, DEA wouldn't tell its agents or other departments were the data came from. DEA's Special Operations Division simply say "Randomly pull over a 1971 line green AMC Gremlin on Route 123."


So, in other words, violations of the Fourth Amendment and perjury committed in court rooms is bigger and more institutionalized than previously thought. Shocking, I know.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2015, 03:47:56 PM »
a) That stuff ain't mine, and I ain't never seen it before.

b) I didn't know it was there.
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makattak

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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Fly320s

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2015, 05:37:43 PM »
a) That stuff ain't mine, and I ain't never seen it before.

b) I didn't know it was there.

You forgot

c) Sumdude put it there.
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Viking

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230RN

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2015, 06:01:33 PM »
Wait a minute.  This DoJ is "investigating" the massive amount of data collected (legally or illegally)?


"The yield of that NSA spying program was described by a judge as a 'staggering' amount of data when the agency's ability to collect it was struck down as illegal in court earlier this year. The program was resumed in June and will run until at least December."


So now this staggering amount of data is also in the hands of the DoJ as well as the individual investigating agencies?

Hmmmmmmmm...... [tinfoil]

Terry

« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 06:35:55 PM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Perd Hapley

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2015, 06:10:55 PM »
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Perd Hapley

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2015, 06:11:32 PM »
Wait a minute.  This DoJ is "investigating" the massive amount of data collected (legally or illegally)?


So now this staggering amount of data is also in the hands of the DoJ as well as the individual investigating agencies?

Hmmmmmmmm...... [tinfoil]

Terry




Along with my CCW information.
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230RN

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2015, 06:14:29 PM »
^
Double- Hmmmmmmmm......  [tinfoil] [tinfoil]
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2015, 07:15:59 PM »
The DOJ is investigating. So...you saying nothing will happen, no one will go to jail, and nothing will change.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2015, 07:31:40 PM »
The DOJ is investigating. So...you saying nothing will happen, no one will go to jail, and nothing will change.


You only say that because they're investigating themselves.
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Ben

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2015, 10:19:00 PM »
The DOJ is investigating. So...you saying nothing will happen, no one will go to jail, and nothing will change.

I'm sure Issa and Gowdy will get to the bottom of this just like they have done with the Fast and Furious and Benghazi investigations. [barf]
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vaskidmark

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2015, 07:52:52 AM »
You are all just jealous because i'm on more lists than you are.  :P

stay safe.
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RevDisk

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2015, 08:20:49 AM »
You are all just jealous because i'm on more lists than you are.  :P

I try not to think of how many lists I'm on.

Then again, last time I visited the Ft Meade to visit the Crypto Museum, the NSA barricaded the gates with half a dozen uparmored Suburbans. Made the rest of the date kinda awkward, btw.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Jamisjockey

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2015, 09:36:41 AM »
The government is investigating itself for spying on citizens and lying under oath. I have so much faith in the outcome.   ;/
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zxcvbob

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2015, 10:01:28 AM »
The government is investigating itself for spying on citizens and lying under oath. I have so much faith in the outcome.   ;/

The DOJ just wants access to the NSA's data to add to their own illegal files.
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MechAg94

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2015, 10:21:29 AM »
So what are the limits on the data transfer?  If the NSA discovered a couple guys doing pretty nasty crimes against poeple, is there any way they can point the police at those people and let the police investigate and build their own case?  Can a line be drawn somewhere or the whole thing not allowed?  Also, I thought there was some court case within the last 6 months that allowed this in a limited way. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2015, 12:02:41 PM »
The government is investigating itself for spying on citizens and lying under oath. I have so much faith in the outcome.   ;/


Remember how our fine, young President insured against fraudulent use of the TARP monies by appointing Joseph Biden as guardian? "Nobody's gonna mess with Joe."

Perhaps, if he is done there, he could oversee this investigation.

Nobody's gonna mess with Joe.
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RevDisk

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2015, 03:02:38 PM »
So what are the limits on the data transfer?  If the NSA discovered a couple guys doing pretty nasty crimes against poeple, is there any way they can point the police at those people and let the police investigate and build their own case?  Can a line be drawn somewhere or the whole thing not allowed?  Also, I thought there was some court case within the last 6 months that allowed this in a limited way. 

Something to remember, NSA is not a law enforcement agency. It is a military organization, under the DoD. It's important to remember that US citizenry are being directly monitored (even if you just buy the NSA argument that they're solely snagging metadata of US citizens) by the US military. Which is then selectively passed to law enforcement. And the US military was lying under oath to Congress about it (and admitted that too).

In reality, yes, 24 U.S. government agencies can access a lot of the NSA take using IC REACH. Those agencies tend to be the ones pointing local police at people. Sometimes they indeed launder their activities using the local police to investigate and build their cases, based originally on potentially tainted evidence, then backtracking their case with allegedly 'clean' cases, then lying under oath.
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230RN

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2015, 05:44:25 PM »
The DOJ just wants access to the NSA's data to add to their own illegal files.

Previously alluded to.  Twice, I think.  Must be pretty obvious.

Just how dumb do they think we are?

Terry
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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2015, 10:07:06 PM »
Just how dumb do they think we are?

It doesn't concern them how dumb we are.  They are convinced of two things: That they can get away with anything, and that there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2015, 11:10:55 PM »
It doesn't concern them how dumb we are.  They are convinced of two things: That they can get away with anything, and that there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Sadly, that.
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TechMan

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2015, 06:38:46 AM »
This like asking the fox to guard the hen house.
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makattak

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Re: DoJ investigating FBI and DEA on usage of NSA provided data
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2015, 08:05:26 AM »
It doesn't concern them how dumb we are.  They are convinced of two things: That they can get away with anything, and that there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

There is no need to ascribe nefarious motives to the agents.

I'm sure they think that MAYBE they are stretching the law a little, but these are bad people who ought to be put in jail. As long as they are catching bad people (and the intercepts show they are), then the end justifies the means.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought